config ideas for MythBE/NAS + Myth/XBMC FE

jalyst · 24th January 2010, 7:19 PM

Myth Back-end + NAS (already own the parts; cept 3x 1/1.5TB HDD)
This machine will do all video capturing/transcoding.
It will also be the Backup Server/NAS....

1x Old Lian-Li midi-Tower or Chen Mei FT
1x Gigabyte 8600GTS .................................... [take transcoding load off CPU w/VDPAU or is this def. not doable?]
1x Hauppauge HVR-2200 .................................. [may eventually add a 2nd one]
1x GA-P35-DQ6 (ATX form-factor)
1x TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF ................................. [2x2GB DDR2 1066; 4GB enough?]
1x Core2Duo (conroe) E6420 2.13Ghz ..................... [may underclock/volt slightly?]
1x Antec True Power 3.0 650W ........................... [Less wattage possible?]
Storage Sub-sys:
1x 1TB WD Black ........................................ [video capture disk, can it handle 4 simultaneous HD streams?]
1x 150GB 10k RPM Raptor ................................. [boot/system volume?]
3x 1/1.5TB 7.2k RPM HDD ....................... [For content storage & BU, may not bother w/RAID till get hw controller?]

********************************************
Myth/XBMC Front-end (don't have the parts; cept where mentioned)
This will be the media player & MAME PC...
Later (6mth) I'll buy a top-end GPU that'll be swapped-in sometimes for gaming.

1x mATX H57 or Q57 mobo. ......... [make/model?]
1x Intel Core i3 530
2x DDR3 1GB ...................... [make/model?]
1x 30GB SSD or USB Flash*? + 74GB 10k RPM Raptor? (for local storage; already own)
OR
1x 1TB WD Black or Samsung F3? [innermost sectors -20GB?- for OS, outermost for local storage]
1x Xonar Essence ST (PCI; already own)
1x H6 (Essence daughterboard; already own)
1x PSU ................................ [perhaps BE PSU is best here if I intend to use strong GPU sometimes; make/model?]
1x Case ............................... [make/model?]
1x nV GT220 ....................... [only if IGP+CPU not enough; make/model?]

For the back-end I was thinking of doing a minimal Ubuntu install & only adding what is needed.
For the front-end I was thinking of starting the same way and gradually adding MythTVFE, XBMC, and maybe a lightweight DE like crunchbang etc.
Interested in peoples thoughts on what I'm missing hardware or software wise or just some general advice.
Thanks!
________
discarded:
********
74GB 10k RPM Raptor ....................... [very old -not used much- slightly damaged connector so connection always a bit loose]
*4GB USB flash ................................ [aside from the fact that 4GB is too small, is USB flash too much of a poor alt to SSD?]
80GB 7.2k HDD, make/model YTBD.

cleary · 24th January 2010, 10:10 PM

I do all of this stuff on an amd 4850e X2 cpu (2.5GHz@45W), nv9400GT, triple digital tuners, 4x 5400rpm "Green" 1TB disks in raid5 for main storage all powered by a 350W Antec NeoHE psu. Myth recordings go to a separate 500GB 7200rpm disk, and I use an old 200GB 7200rpm for the OS.
I run mythbackend, and moovida/mythtv as a frontend. I run kde with full desktop effects in the bg, deluge, quassel-core, sabnzbd and a variety of other services.

What I'm getting at, your proposed setup is ridiculously overspecced...

jalyst · 24th January 2010, 11:17 PM

Point is I don't want to build on my existing hardware (BE) as the base for an AIO.
I want the FE as an opportunity to upgrade to nehalem/clarkdale....

Core i3 530's are almost the lowest specced of the nehalem/clarkdale series you can get.
I would be seeing if I can do without a GT220 + VDPAU...
There are signs that VA for the Intel IGP + CPU-bound acceleration will be enough to cover all bases.
The mobo for the FE would be mATX, there'd be only one PCI/e card (essence), & it'd have 2x 3.5" drives at most.

Overall it'd be a quieter, smaller footprint device than I could do with an AIO.

jalyst · 24th January 2010, 11:47 PM

Damn it you have got me thinking though...

The money saved on not forking-out for new: CPU, Mobo, RAM, PSU, & local disk/disks, could go towards the current proposed back-end for a: 30GB SSD(swap out the 150GB Raptor), GT220(swap-out the 8600GTS), & 2GB extra RAM.

Sure it'd be a bigger/louder machine, but overall it'd use less power & prolly cost slightly less than a BE+FE without an SSD.
But what if I want to put in an extra HVR-2200, & swap-in a beefier GPU, I'm not sure it'd have enough room for everything?!

figrin · 25th January 2010, 8:13 AM

Intel HD Graphics (or GMA HD, Ironlake, IGDNG) on the new clarkdale/arrandale cpu support in linux is a complete hit and miss at the moment. If it works then it is suitable for your application.

However, your whole setup is way over-spec.

Snoops · 25th January 2010, 8:27 AM

For frontends just get something based around the Ion platform. (E.g. Asrock Ion330). Simple low power, low noise - dont even bother with a harddrive - just netboot them from your server. (I use 3 like this).

jalyst · 25th January 2010, 2:37 PM

but the current gen. of ION's struggle with some types of decode, this thing won't.
Do you reckon I should do what cleary was suggesting or go down the route of a light Clarkdale set-up for a FE?

jalyst · 25th January 2010, 2:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figrin

Intel HD Graphics (or GMA HD, Ironlake, IGDNG) on the new clarkdale/arrandale cpu support in linux is a complete hit and miss at the moment.

How do you know, have you tried VA-API recently?
Is it tied into Myth the same way VDPAU is?

Quote:

If it works then it is suitable for your application.

So you mean its comparable to VDPAU for decode abilities?
If so can you cite evidence of this?

Quote:

However, your whole setup is way over-spec.

What would you suggest then, an AIO only?
Current gen ION is not an option, ION2 might be but it's a while off.

figrin · 25th January 2010, 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst

How do you know, have you tried VA-API recently?

Because I'm running one. Supposedly to get full support you need kernel 2.6.33 and xf86-video-intel 2.10 - both wouldn't be in ubuntu 10.04.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1382308
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=NzkwOA

I tried ubuntu 10.04 daily and kernel update, but it's just crashing on standard display. Haven't even tried hardware decoding yet.

cleary · 25th January 2010, 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figrin

Because I'm running one. Supposedly to get full support you need kernel 2.6.33 and xf86-video-intel 2.10 - both wouldn't be in ubuntu 10.04.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1382308
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=NzkwOA

I tried ubuntu 10.04 daily and kernel update, but it's just crashing on standard display. Haven't even tried hardware decoding yet.

Ubuntu 10.04 will be an LTS release, they tend to push known stable configs into those as opposed to the general releases which have tech which pushes the envelope a bit more.
One of the first distributions that will have 2.6.33 available when it is released is sidux (debian sid based), and I know slh (sidux kernel maintainer) would be pretty interested to see how the on-die intel gpu will perform with the current state of the 2.6.33 branch, so if you ask he may very well make a kernel package available for you.

The v2.10 intel driver is not currently available in debian sid or experimental yet, but it's likely it will enter there 'early' as well.
It's worth keeping an eye on Bryce Goglins blog: http://bgoglin.livejournal.com/ as he is on the debian X team, and often precedes major package feature changes coming into debian with an announcement there.

jalyst · 25th January 2010, 4:36 PM

I've never run Debian only Ubuntu, I know Ubuntu was based on Debian but aside from that what are the major differences?
Is there much more of a learning curve versus Ubuntu?

Aside from all that you've got me confused as to whether I should bother with two machines now!!!!!

Maybe I should sell most of the proposed BE and use the proposed FE as the AIO? That would get me a newer base going forward and a little extra cash to put towards that new base. I do have plans later this yr to build a core i7 based native VMM (baremetal hypervisor), so this could become the BE & "jack of all" server, and the AIO could revert to a FE/occasional gaming machine, & maybe a GP workstation.

Thoughts please!

Snoops · 25th January 2010, 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst

but the current gen. of ION's struggle with some types of decode, this thing won't.

The only thing it will struggle with are 1080P Mpeg4 files. Who on earth uses mpeg4 for HD?? It will more than easily handle HD mpeg2 (Free to air stuff) and 1080p x264 (99.9% of the stuff on the net).

I have a e8400 / ATI 4870x2 as a media centre that has not been used since i got the Asrock's a couple of months ago.

I have yet to "acquire" a HD clip from the internet which didnt play smoothly using vdapu.

Keeping a compact media centre quiet is pretty much impossible since it will be in a cabinet which will restrict airflow. Forget medium/high power solutions - you just dont need them for a frontend only.

figrin · 25th January 2010, 6:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleary

...

Yes I fully understand what ubuntu, LTS, deb distro and experimental packages are about. I just think someone (I leaning on the side of Intel) dropped the ball on supporting the next mass market chipset.

It would be a shame if a LTS release doesn't support the most common video architecture during its lifetime out of the box.

jalyst · 25th January 2010, 6:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoops

Forget medium/high power solutions - you just dont need them for a frontend only.

Unless you want it for an AIO, which is what I'm still determining, see posts #4 & #11.

ION doesn't handle h.264 at the following widths:
769-784, 849-864, 929-944, 1009-1024, 1793-1808, 1873-1888, 1953-1968, 2033-2048 pixels

Not sure who uses mp4 for HD yet, but it's nice to know it's in the GT220 should I decide to add a discrete.
Level of noise isn't a biggy, the avg core2 workstation doesn't bug me in the slightest.

jalyst · 25th January 2010, 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figrin

Yes I fully understand what ubuntu, LTS, deb distro and experimental packages are about. I just think someone (I leaning on the side of Intel) dropped the ball on supporting the next mass market chipset.

It would be a shame if a LTS release doesn't support the most common video architecture during its lifetime out of the box.

Agreed, but if that's the reality then I'm prepared to try & work with it.
I just need to decide if I should go with an AIO, and if so which AIO!

24th January 2010, 10:10 PM	#2
cleary with one 'L' Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Griffith NSW Posts: 1,975	I do all of this stuff on an amd 4850e X2 cpu (2.5GHz@45W), nv9400GT, triple digital tuners, 4x 5400rpm "Green" 1TB disks in raid5 for main storage all powered by a 350W Antec NeoHE psu. Myth recordings go to a separate 500GB 7200rpm disk, and I use an old 200GB 7200rpm for the OS. I run mythbackend, and moovida/mythtv as a frontend. I run kde with full desktop effects in the bg, deluge, quassel-core, sabnzbd and a variety of other services. What I'm getting at, your proposed setup is ridiculously overspecced... __________________ sidux :: User :: Developer pcdb :: press folding :: for SunkenSite trades :: 100+ "I'll see you in hell... you handsome rogue!"

24th January 2010, 11:17 PM	#3
jalyst Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 493	Point is I don't want to build on my existing hardware (BE) as the base for an AIO. I want the FE as an opportunity to upgrade to nehalem/clarkdale.... Core i3 530's are almost the lowest specced of the nehalem/clarkdale series you can get. I would be seeing if I can do without a GT220 + VDPAU... There are signs that VA for the Intel IGP + CPU-bound acceleration will be enough to cover all bases. The mobo for the FE would be mATX, there'd be only one PCI/e card (essence), & it'd have 2x 3.5" drives at most. Overall it'd be a quieter, smaller footprint device than I could do with an AIO. Last edited by jalyst; 25th January 2010 at 12:04 AM.

25th January 2010, 2:37 PM	#7
jalyst Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 493	but the current gen. of ION's struggle with some types of decode, this thing won't. Do you reckon I should do what cleary was suggesting or go down the route of a light Clarkdale set-up for a FE? Last edited by jalyst; 25th January 2010 at 2:40 PM.

24th January 2010, 7:19 PM	#1
jalyst Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 493	config ideas for MythBE/NAS + Myth/XBMC FE Myth Back-end + NAS (already own the parts; cept 3x 1/1.5TB HDD) This machine will do all video capturing/transcoding. It will also be the Backup Server/NAS.... 1x Old Lian-Li midi-Tower or Chen Mei FT 1x Gigabyte 8600GTS .................................... [take transcoding load off CPU w/VDPAU or is this def. not doable?] 1x Hauppauge HVR-2200 .................................. [may eventually add a 2nd one] 1x GA-P35-DQ6 (ATX form-factor) 1x TWIN2X4096-8500C5DF ................................. [2x2GB DDR2 1066; 4GB enough?] 1x Core2Duo (conroe) E6420 2.13Ghz ..................... [may underclock/volt slightly?] 1x Antec True Power 3.0 650W ........................... [Less wattage possible?] Storage Sub-sys: 1x 1TB WD Black ........................................ [video capture disk, can it handle 4 simultaneous HD streams?] 1x 150GB 10k RPM Raptor ................................. [boot/system volume?] 3x 1/1.5TB 7.2k RPM HDD ....................... [For content storage & BU, may not bother w/RAID till get hw controller?] ******************************************** Myth/XBMC Front-end (don't have the parts; cept where mentioned) This will be the media player & MAME PC... Later (6mth) I'll buy a top-end GPU that'll be swapped-in sometimes for gaming. 1x mATX H57 or Q57 mobo. ......... [make/model?] 1x Intel Core i3 530 2x DDR3 1GB ...................... [make/model?] 1x 30GB SSD or USB Flash? + 74GB 10k RPM Raptor? (for local storage; already own) OR 1x 1TB WD Black or Samsung F3? [innermost sectors -20GB?- for OS, outermost for local storage] 1x Xonar Essence ST (PCI; already own) 1x H6 (Essence daughterboard; already own) 1x PSU ................................ [perhaps BE PSU is best here if I intend to use strong GPU sometimes; make/model?] 1x Case ............................... [make/model?] 1x nV GT220 ....................... [only if IGP+CPU not enough; make/model?] For the back-end I was thinking of doing a minimal Ubuntu install & only adding what is needed. For the front-end I was thinking of starting the same way and gradually adding MythTVFE, XBMC, and maybe a lightweight DE like crunchbang etc. Interested in peoples thoughts on what I'm missing hardware or software wise or just some general advice. Thanks! ________ discarded: ******* 74GB 10k RPM Raptor ....................... [very old -not used much- slightly damaged connector so connection always a bit loose] 4GB USB flash ................................ [aside from the fact that 4GB is too small, is USB flash too much of a poor alt to SSD?] 80GB 7.2k HDD, make/model YTBD. Last edited by jalyst; 25th January 2010 at 4:42 AM.*

24th January 2010, 11:47 PM	#4
jalyst Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 493	Damn it you have got me thinking though... The money saved on not forking-out for new: CPU, Mobo, RAM, PSU, & local disk/disks, could go towards the current proposed back-end for a: 30GB SSD(swap out the 150GB Raptor), GT220(swap-out the 8600GTS), & 2GB extra RAM. Sure it'd be a bigger/louder machine, but overall it'd use less power & prolly cost slightly less than a BE+FE without an SSD. But what if I want to put in an extra HVR-2200, & swap-in a beefier GPU, I'm not sure it'd have enough room for everything?! Last edited by jalyst; 24th January 2010 at 11:55 PM.

25th January 2010, 8:13 AM	#5
figrin Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 2,556	Intel HD Graphics (or GMA HD, Ironlake, IGDNG) on the new clarkdale/arrandale cpu support in linux is a complete hit and miss at the moment. If it works then it is suitable for your application. However, your whole setup is way over-spec.

25th January 2010, 8:27 AM	#6
Snoops Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Brisbane Posts: 1,402	For frontends just get something based around the Ion platform. (E.g. Asrock Ion330). Simple low power, low noise - dont even bother with a harddrive - just netboot them from your server. (I use 3 like this).

25th January 2010, 4:36 PM	#11
jalyst Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 493	I've never run Debian only Ubuntu, I know Ubuntu was based on Debian but aside from that what are the major differences? Is there much more of a learning curve versus Ubuntu? Aside from all that you've got me confused as to whether I should bother with two machines now!!!!! Maybe I should sell most of the proposed BE and use the proposed FE as the AIO? That would get me a newer base going forward and a little extra cash to put towards that new base. I do have plans later this yr to build a core i7 based native VMM (baremetal hypervisor), so this could become the BE & "jack of all" server, and the AIO could revert to a FE/occasional gaming machine, & maybe a GP workstation. Thoughts please! Last edited by jalyst; 25th January 2010 at 7:19 PM.