My 386 time machine project so far - Page 9

Mau1wurf1977 · 18th September 2010, 9:16 PM

For a PS/2 this is what you need: http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/jpg/5103_1.jpg

Very very very hard to find. PS/2 where business machines, hardly anyone got a Sound Blaster for these machines.

They are rare and super expensive...

Roland made a MIDI card for PS/2 but again you will struggle finding one... A PS/1 is a much better machine for playing games, unless it's of the early PS/2 with ISA slots. There where 286 and 386 versions. I believe model 40 is one of them.

JustRight · 19th September 2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mau1wurf1977

*grabs JustRight and gdjacobs*

Awesome! I will look up Super Pi results and hope I kind find a reference to some older machines...
Your numbers suggest it's 5.5 times slower with L1 disabled and 23 times slower with both caches disabled.

Could you do me a favour and boot your W98 into DOS mode and then get and run this benchmark:

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...atid=26&id=244

It will give you a cpu score just like this one: http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4663/dsc01618a.jpg

Here you go!

Pentium 200MMX with both caches enabled

Click to view full size!

Pentium 200MMX with Internal cache disabled

Click to view full size!

Pentium 200MMX with both caches disabled

Click to view full size!

Cheers.

Mau1wurf1977 · 19th September 2010, 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustRight

Here you go!

Oh WOW! Brilliant mate!

With both caches disabled, well it looks like it's perfect 386 speed!

Excellent stuff. I will get my hands on some Super Socket 7 stuff and see what I can do with some other chips (like K6 and Cyrix)...

From your benchmarks it looks like Socket 7 is a bit more flexible. P3s are either super fast or slow dogs. Wheras your benchmarks indicate that a Socket 7 is more granular. And don't forget that you can change the clockspeed of your cpu simply by changing the mutliplier...

Thanks mate! Made my day

EDIT: I find it very interesting that once you disable both caches, a Pentium 200 beats a PIII 1 GHz! Shows you just how different these architectures are...

mAJORD · 19th September 2010, 5:21 PM

Well I'm a bit bummed.. I was going over my PS/1 today, and it's actually a 2011, not 2021

, so no need to be jealous mau1warf! )

I was so confused, I've thought it was the 386 the whole time. The blanking plate on the back must be some proprietory thing.

So yeah I guess it's going to remain merely a display item. Was hoping to install wolf on it too

On another matter, I have a K6-2 II I can fire up with freedos to check the speed out.

Mau1wurf1977 · 19th September 2010, 5:27 PM

That's the "all in one" unit with the monitor and machine in the same box...

It's a 286 running at 10 MHz. Still a nice machine! Especially for text adventure games and early Sierra games.

It does have MCGA so a lot of games will run just fine...

mAJORD · 19th September 2010, 5:56 PM

nah it's still two units. the PSU is in the Monitor though. I think that's the case for the 2021 as well. It's just the CPU and lack of ISA slots that differ (and it's a bit smaller)

Tis VGA by the way

mAJORD · 19th September 2010, 9:40 PM

OK, So I fired up one of these socket7 boards..

They're an ATX board with Onboard graphics, 2x SDRAM slots, 2 IDE, 2 ISA

CPU is a K6-2 300 @ 133Mhz via:

55Mhz Bus
2.5x Multi

I'm running FreeDOS with EMM386
Cache Disabled using Icache (no BIOS option)

Sysinfo - Cache Enabled:

Click to view full size!

SpeedSys - Cache Enabled:

Click to view full size!

Sysinfo - Cache DISABLED

Click to view full size!

SpeedSys - Cache DISABLED

Click to view full size!

So right around 386 speed with Sysinfo's bench, and more like 486 with Speedsys.

Mau1wurf1977 · 19th September 2010, 9:49 PM

Perfect

mAJORD · 19th September 2010, 9:51 PM

PS, The much shorter pipeline of both the P6, and K6 Architectures is probably why disabling Cache has lesser inpact on "apparent" performance than you saw on the P3. And you're right, both of these earlier CPU's should be more consistant with the performance penalty induced without cache.

Mau1wurf1977 · 19th September 2010, 9:54 PM

It does look like S7 is the way to go!

- They are still ATX
- Work with modern gear
- Batteries are lithium ion button types
- IDE and FDD controllers on board
- Lots of ISA slots
- Cheap because to young to be "vintage"
- A wide range of cpus allowing(from Pentium 100 to Cyrix to AMD K6-2 and K6-3 and IDT Winchips)
- Plenty of documentation
- Branded mainboards have downloads, manuals and BIOS on their website
- Awesome flexibility by changing FSB and Multis

It has most / if not all of the benefits I found working with PIII hardware, but the end result is heaps better. There is no way I could get a PIII to reach a 386DX 40 MHz equivalent... The cache just cripples it to much.

I can't wait to get my parts and go nuts.

mAJORD · 19th September 2010, 10:16 PM

Well, Like I said I have about 6 or 7 of these ones. If you want to try one out let me know

, wouldn't want much if you wanted to go with it. The model is Biostar M5SIB . Looks like the archive site for Biostar is no longer which is a shame, but there's drivers and stuff around on the net still.

Mau1wurf1977 · 19th September 2010, 10:18 PM

Thanks but I got it covered! Getting two very late Super Socket 7 boards. They support 100 MHz fsb and where the latest and greatest back in the days

mAJORD · 19th September 2010, 10:48 PM

Ah yes, the 100Mhz speed machines

The K6-2 i tested that with used to be in a Gigabyte Super-7 board with the old Aladdin V chipset (anyone remember THAT?.. shit chipset I must say)

Mau1wurf1977 · 19th September 2010, 10:56 PM

VIA MVP3 or ALi Aladdin V

gdjacobs · 20th September 2010, 3:05 PM

My primary machine used to be an Asus TX97 with a k6-2 cpu running 75Mhzx6 using the classic 2=6 multiplier. That was a solid, fast machine. The board is still running in an OpenBSD gateway with a k5-100.

I have some older boards from when I helped a buddy take stuff to the recyclers. There was an AladdinV board in the mix, but it was DoA needless to say. He also had an old Epox dual slot 1 board, which was a neat find. Lots of other boards, cards, etc. It's an awesome way to find stuff - dumpster diving on a mass scale.

18th September 2010, 9:16 PM	#121
Mau1wurf1977 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Country WA Posts: 12,949	For a PS/2 this is what you need: http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/jpg/5103_1.jpg Very very very hard to find. PS/2 where business machines, hardly anyone got a Sound Blaster for these machines. They are rare and super expensive... Roland made a MIDI card for PS/2 but again you will struggle finding one... A PS/1 is a much better machine for playing games, unless it's of the early PS/2 with ISA slots. There where 286 and 386 versions. I believe model 40 is one of them. __________________ Ultimate GOG.com DOSBox Tutorial, Roland vs Yamaha General MIDI DOS Games Music Comparison Last edited by Mau1wurf1977; 18th September 2010 at 9:23 PM.

19th September 2010, 5:27 PM	#125
Mau1wurf1977 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Country WA Posts: 12,949	That's the "all in one" unit with the monitor and machine in the same box... It's a 286 running at 10 MHz. Still a nice machine! Especially for text adventure games and early Sierra games. It does have MCGA so a lot of games will run just fine... __________________ Ultimate GOG.com DOSBox Tutorial, Roland vs Yamaha General MIDI DOS Games Music Comparison

19th September 2010, 9:40 PM	#127
mAJORD Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Griffin , Brisbane Posts: 6,726	OK, So I fired up one of these socket7 boards.. They're an ATX board with Onboard graphics, 2x SDRAM slots, 2 IDE, 2 ISA CPU is a K6-2 300 @ 133Mhz via: 55Mhz Bus 2.5x Multi I'm running FreeDOS with EMM386 Cache Disabled using Icache (no BIOS option) Sysinfo - Cache Enabled: Click to view full size! SpeedSys - Cache Enabled: Click to view full size! Sysinfo - Cache DISABLED Click to view full size! SpeedSys - Cache DISABLED Click to view full size! So right around 386 speed with Sysinfo's bench, and more like 486 with Speedsys. Last edited by mAJORD; 19th September 2010 at 9:42 PM.

19th September 2010, 9:49 PM	#128
Mau1wurf1977 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Country WA Posts: 12,949	Perfect __________________ Ultimate GOG.com DOSBox Tutorial, Roland vs Yamaha General MIDI DOS Games Music Comparison

19th September 2010, 9:54 PM	#130
Mau1wurf1977 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Country WA Posts: 12,949	It does look like S7 is the way to go! - They are still ATX - Work with modern gear - Batteries are lithium ion button types - IDE and FDD controllers on board - Lots of ISA slots - Cheap because to young to be "vintage" - A wide range of cpus allowing(from Pentium 100 to Cyrix to AMD K6-2 and K6-3 and IDT Winchips) - Plenty of documentation - Branded mainboards have downloads, manuals and BIOS on their website - Awesome flexibility by changing FSB and Multis It has most / if not all of the benefits I found working with PIII hardware, but the end result is heaps better. There is no way I could get a PIII to reach a 386DX 40 MHz equivalent... The cache just cripples it to much. I can't wait to get my parts and go nuts. __________________ Ultimate GOG.com DOSBox Tutorial, Roland vs Yamaha General MIDI DOS Games Music Comparison Last edited by Mau1wurf1977; 19th September 2010 at 9:59 PM.

19th September 2010, 5:21 PM	#124
mAJORD Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Griffin , Brisbane Posts: 6,726	Well I'm a bit bummed.. I was going over my PS/1 today, and it's actually a 2011, not 2021 , so no need to be jealous mau1warf! ) I was so confused, I've thought it was the 386 the whole time. The blanking plate on the back must be some proprietory thing. So yeah I guess it's going to remain merely a display item. Was hoping to install wolf on it too On another matter, I have a K6-2 II I can fire up with freedos to check the speed out.

19th September 2010, 5:56 PM	#126
mAJORD Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Griffin , Brisbane Posts: 6,726	nah it's still two units. the PSU is in the Monitor though. I think that's the case for the 2021 as well. It's just the CPU and lack of ISA slots that differ (and it's a bit smaller) Tis VGA by the way

19th September 2010, 9:51 PM	#129
mAJORD Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Griffin , Brisbane Posts: 6,726	PS, The much shorter pipeline of both the P6, and K6 Architectures is probably why disabling Cache has lesser inpact on "apparent" performance than you saw on the P3. And you're right, both of these earlier CPU's should be more consistant with the performance penalty induced without cache.

19th September 2010, 10:16 PM	#131
mAJORD Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Griffin , Brisbane Posts: 6,726	Well, Like I said I have about 6 or 7 of these ones. If you want to try one out let me know , wouldn't want much if you wanted to go with it. The model is Biostar M5SIB . Looks like the archive site for Biostar is no longer which is a shame, but there's drivers and stuff around on the net still.

19th September 2010, 10:18 PM	#132
Mau1wurf1977 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Country WA Posts: 12,949	Thanks but I got it covered! Getting two very late Super Socket 7 boards. They support 100 MHz fsb and where the latest and greatest back in the days __________________ Ultimate GOG.com DOSBox Tutorial, Roland vs Yamaha General MIDI DOS Games Music Comparison

19th September 2010, 10:48 PM	#133
mAJORD Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Griffin , Brisbane Posts: 6,726	Ah yes, the 100Mhz speed machines The K6-2 i tested that with used to be in a Gigabyte Super-7 board with the old Aladdin V chipset (anyone remember THAT?.. shit chipset I must say)

19th September 2010, 10:56 PM	#134
Mau1wurf1977 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Country WA Posts: 12,949	VIA MVP3 or ALi Aladdin V __________________ Ultimate GOG.com DOSBox Tutorial, Roland vs Yamaha General MIDI DOS Games Music Comparison

20th September 2010, 3:05 PM	#135
gdjacobs Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 330	My primary machine used to be an Asus TX97 with a k6-2 cpu running 75Mhzx6 using the classic 2=6 multiplier. That was a solid, fast machine. The board is still running in an OpenBSD gateway with a k5-100. I have some older boards from when I helped a buddy take stuff to the recyclers. There was an AladdinV board in the mix, but it was DoA needless to say. He also had an old Epox dual slot 1 board, which was a neat find. Lots of other boards, cards, etc. It's an awesome way to find stuff - dumpster diving on a mass scale. Last edited by gdjacobs; 20th September 2010 at 3:09 PM.