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Old 19th April 2012, 2:44 PM   #46
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The thing is there's no coursework physics postgraduate study for people who want to change into physics teaching. One has to do the whole bachelors again.

While I have no intention of being a physics teacher I tried looking for a program and there is none.

There's mathematics however, I'd much rather do physics than maths but I'm stuck with maths.
Can't you just a year on top of your physics degree and do a diploma of education? that's what i was planning on doing down at uow, (halfway through environmental science, almost did physics but figured there were no job prospects for it)
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Old 19th April 2012, 2:52 PM   #47
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The DET is notoriously bad when dealing with graduates. Make quadruplicates of everything you ever send them, because they will lose it and they will ask for it to be sent again. The DET is also desperately trying to retrain PE teachers into maths teachers as it solves an oversupply of PE teachers that have full time work with the DET but no classes and an under supply of maths teachers.

The other thing that has relieved some of the pressure is pushing students to do low levels maths instead of advanced (2u/3u/4u). The school doesn't have staff that can teach high levels of maths, and students would generally get a better ATAR with a lower levels of maths. Retrained PE teachers can generally have a go at teaching general maths (ie no calculus etc).

Hence why 60%+ of engineering graduates fail 1st uni regardless of the ATAR . Because there is no way (extremely difficult) you can pick up calculus as you go in Engineering. Hence what is killing engineering (no physics and no decent maths being taught in schools). You can get an ATAR of 98 yet almost be guaranteed to fail engineering if you did general maths and no physics or engineering studies.

You need a dip.ed minimum to get into a classroom at schools. They are standing firm on that, and that now includes private schools due to the Institute of teachers.

You are not valuable until you have a teaching qualification. You don't become super valuable until you get 1-3 years experience as a proven teacher. Then you still have to network, negotiate etc. Even then the public school system won't let you get your true value as pay is limited on time served.

As a physics graduate I never really had a problem finding a job. Most of the people in physics know that they will have to be somewhat flexible in employment.

BTW teaching physics is awesome and worth pursuing. Imagine every day getting explain to kids how big the universe is, or how things work, or some other amazing facts or process. Then we do some calculations and in the process explain how maths works. Its a job where you can literally grab annoying ignorant cocky kids and make them see the world. Students came in building jacobs ladders and plasma balls with billions of questions. The marking is easier than bio (more maths in physics less essays), the pracs take less to prepare than chem teaching, and at the end physics tend to be seen higher up in the food chain so you get more aspirational kids generally. When I am very comfortable financially, professionally, I would like to retire to become a high school physics teacher again.
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Physics is being canned because it is irrelevant in the 21st century Australian economy. We to give our children the skills they need to become lawyers and real estate agents.
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Old 21st April 2012, 7:05 AM   #48
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Good point.

What about physics degree -> truck licence -> $150k/yr FIFO?
Yeah this. I was studying network engineering, left, got my electrical license and haven't regretted it one bit.
It's pretty sad but i do know a few people who've graduated from uni with a degree to not even work in the field.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 2:20 AM   #49
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I will finish up my PhD in Medicinal Chemistry in one year.

It is sad but when people say "are you going to find a job straight away or take a holiday when you finish?" and I tell them I'm going to TAFE to do a welder/plumber/sparky course so I can actually put food on the table.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 10:01 AM   #50
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I will finish up my PhD in Medicinal Chemistry in one year.

It is sad but when people say "are you going to find a job straight away or take a holiday when you finish?" and I tell them I'm going to TAFE to do a welder/plumber/sparky course so I can actually put food on the table.
Investigate career opportunities outside Austraya.

If you want to become a licensed tradie, a TAFE course by itself won't cut it.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 10:46 AM   #51
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I've just done a maths degree [also doing law] and whilst it isn't in the field as it were, I think that firms look at the whole 'Graduate attributes thing'. They look to science students because they know how to think.

Then again the above is marketing spiel for science, I recognise that.

I have a few mates who just did Honours in pure math, and they're looking at well anything they can get. Sure, they didn't do Finance but i have a mate of mine who's applying for all the big accounting firms eg EY as such; he may be limited in what he can do but it's still a viable option. My mate who did Honours in Pure math is currently looking at Optivier and other such things. Not tooooo sure about physics and math in particular, but within Acct firms there's an entire division which specifically doesnt look at commerce grads; it's callled Tax R&D and it is slightly more interesting than it sounds; I know of someone who did medical science, then a masters in geology, who worked in the mines for a bit, then moved on to there. I know someone who did a science degree in physiology and pharmacology and ended up there too.

As has been suggested earlier, patent attorney's pay quite well and they are a technically demanding job. alternatively, do a diploma in law at uni and try to get a job that way in la law firm with something preferably in your area. Biosciences and pharmaceuticals and the law is a big growing area, and if you did phys/pharm or medical science or some bio science, it is an area which will be quite employable. Drug companies use law firms who have people with specific knowledge about, well, drugs. and is some swanky law/Commerce free-hills corporate-M&A-reject going to know anything? hell no!

in regards to teaching, I have heard [but know nothing about] some private schools in syd offering bursaries or mini scholarships to the right people to help fun their Dip.Ed or B.Ed or M.Ed even in particular subjects; but that also requires networking.


Whilst I'm lucky that I'm stilll a student and dont have to fund myself or fend for myself for the time being, even with my Pass average and horrendous marks I certainly did not regret doing my Math major in science. In terms of employability yes I can and will[have to] rely on my law degree, but doing science certainly teaches you so much more not only in terms of how to think but also different intricacies in reasoning, which some bludger doing Commerce with a Fine-Ass major wouldn't understand.

If you have decent marks at physics and math, I don't see why you shouldn't be trying out for Acct firms etc; if you're really brilliant also hit up managment consulting. [but that's really hard].

THOUGH I do regret doing maths and law simultaneously - you need to let math stew in your head and let your subconscious solve and figure things out on its own without worrying about another discipline all together.



Forgive me if I take the moral highground of the benefits of the liberal education, but learn for the sake of learning. also, forgive me if i did miss the point at all ><.

I do agree that getting into research is hard and there aren't too many 'science' jobs out there
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Old 22nd April 2012, 2:25 PM   #52
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Investigate career opportunities outside Austraya.

If you want to become a licensed tradie, a TAFE course by itself won't cut it.
Don't really want to leave straya, pretty rad place. I know tafe course itself wont cut it, but it'd be a start.

I'm either heading down the tradie route, or, maybe i will just join a temping agency and do data entry/monkey work for say 3 days a week, and use the other 2 to work post-grad/PhD emiterus in my current position, just because love science, even though no $$ in it.
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Old 24th April 2012, 11:29 AM   #53
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I think you might find mature aged apprentice a hard slog (really poor pay $6 an hr stuff). Best thing to do might be to do a building course and get a building licence.

Teaching qualification is relatively easy to do. You can do dip ed by distance.

Also the det offers:

"As a scholar, you'll receive a $5,000 annual training allowance while studying full time for a teaching qualification. When you complete your studies, you are guaranteed permanent employment in a NSW public school in an agreed location and awarded a further $3,000 to assist with expenses such as relocation costs." As a teacher you will get $1600 paid off your HECS every year you work.

So as say a chem teacher, you could get $8k in benefits for your year of study.

As with anything, get some management experience and you can make money. Engineers don't make that much money, Engineering Managers do make serious money.
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Physics is being canned because it is irrelevant in the 21st century Australian economy. We to give our children the skills they need to become lawyers and real estate agents.
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Old 24th April 2012, 11:25 PM   #54
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Harder slog than my current PhD at 110 hours a week at $4 an hour?

$6 an hour would be a payrise.

I've thought about teaching, not really my thing. I'm sure I'll survive one way or another...
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Old 25th April 2012, 8:33 AM   #55
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Engineers don't make that much money
so 150k isn't that much money? most senior engineers would be on that at least
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Old 25th April 2012, 2:41 PM   #56
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so 150k isn't that much money? most senior engineers would be on that at least
True but most senior engineer are basically project managers in at least some capacity.
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Old 25th April 2012, 2:49 PM   #57
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I think much of this problem is with how western women are raised.

In any hard sciences class you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of local caucasian women, or there is practically zero. Any women who are tend to be from immigrant background or are international students.

Where do they all go? Chock full of them in HR, sales, marketing, admin, and law. The only sciences they do are psychology and the medical sciences. If you google stats for Eastern Europe, Asia, and the middle east, women are still a minority in the technical professions, but at least there's still a significant representation.

Its not PC but its so glaring and obvious.
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Old 25th April 2012, 4:58 PM   #58
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You need a dip.ed minimum to get into a classroom at schools. They are standing firm on that, and that now includes private schools due to the Institute of teachers.
This is not 100% true, you can obtain "Conditional Accreditation" which allows you to start teaching without a Dip. Ed., provided that you get one within a specified time period. I have just done exactly this in a private school. As I understand though, it's not possible at all schools.

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in regards to teaching, I have heard [but know nothing about] some private schools in syd offering bursaries or mini scholarships to the right people to help fun their Dip.Ed or B.Ed or M.Ed even in particular subjects; but that also requires networking.
This is possible, but it depends on the employer and the employee.
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Old 26th April 2012, 9:46 AM   #59
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This is not 100% true, you can obtain "Conditional Accreditation" which allows you to start teaching without a Dip. Ed., provided that you get one within a specified time period. I have just done exactly this in a private school. As I understand though, it's not possible at all schools.
Yes, what I said didn't really cater for that. It be permanently appointed and continuously work in schools you will need a dip ed. What do you need for conditional accreditation? A degree in your field?

Teachings not for everybody, however a significant portion of science graduates will go into educational vocations (high school, university, adult, training etc).

Women in physical sciences and engineering is a huge issue and there has been little progress in the last 100 years. Women almost exclusive do medicine and bio (making up a majority).

In physics and engineering classes I have taught women have generally made up 1 or 2 students in the class. Generally those 1 or 2 women however have been some of the brightest students.
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Physics is being canned because it is irrelevant in the 21st century Australian economy. We to give our children the skills they need to become lawyers and real estate agents.
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Old 26th April 2012, 7:02 PM   #60
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What do you need for conditional accreditation? A degree in your field?
Yeah correct, you need a degree in a relevant field and to have either started a Dip. Ed. or undertake to complete one in the future (within a certain time-frame depending on your employment status). You then undergo the usual Professional Competence accreditation process.

Two other things worth mentioning for people thinking of heading down this path:
1. Check Dip. Ed. course eligibility re: what your Science majors will allow you to study in your Dip. Ed. Some courses require you to have studied the subject to 2nd year level.
2. Some Dip. Ed. courses require you to do at least some of your practicum at a school at which you are not currently teaching (others, however, have no such restriction).
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