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[Melzawelza]

Originally Posted by OldnBold

Having had two dogs killed by Pitbull/Staffie crosses I wonder at all about the viability of these dogs. Why breed killers in the first place?

Now before you get defensive. My first dog had socilaised with the first pitbull for many months .. killed it on the spot for no reason.

Second dog first introduction to the new Pitbull. Grabbed it by the throat and killed it. I have absolutely no sympathy for this breed .. they are killers.

I'm very sorry to hear that, it must have been absolutely horrific and I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.

However, I'd just like to point out that there are many, many, MANY breeds (I'd dare say most breeds) that have had individuals from that breed kill other dogs. I am an animal control officer - trust me, this behaviour is not limited to bull breeds. In fact they rate very low in attacks.

Any responsible pit owner will recognize that they *can* be quick to fire up with other dogs (the old saying - they won't necessarily start a fight but they will finish it), and this is something that we are mindful of. We socialize our dogs, train them, and raise well balanced, friendly dogs. That said, my dog loves other dogs to a fault and has never ever responded even when other dogs have been aggressive towards her.

Without knowing more about your scenarios I can't comment, but NO well socialized dog that has never shown warning signs before will suddenly turn around and kill another dog for no reason. These dogs you mention would have shown many, many warning signs before it actually getting to that point, and the owner was the irresponsible one for not recognizing/acknowledging those warning signs and putting the dog in a situation where this could happen. A typical case of 'oh, he'd never hurt a fly' when their dog has shown severe warning signs (I see this all the time in my job with every breed you can imagine).

Again, I'm sorry and after what you've experienced I wouldn't blame you for not liking the breed, but at the end of the day would you write off all black people because you'd been robbed twice? There are bad examples in every breed, and every breed can and does kill other dogs.

I'm not here to change your mind, but just to highlight that at the end of the day Breed bans have been proven to be completely ineffective in reduce dog attacks. Every other country that has had this legislation has either repealed it or is in the process of repealing it. It doesn't protect dogs, it doesn't protect people - it costs tens of thousands of dollars in tax payers money to implement and it kills loving family pets. There are models of animal management out there that are proven to significantly reduce dog bites in the community that do not include any type of breed - specific legislation, they work because they target the real problem- the owners.

[t00ch]

Originally Posted by broccoli

Petstock's got a similar looking thing listed http://www.petstock.com.au/c/dog-toy...7C64AA732446BF

Thanks mate! Called in to Petstock near work and grabbed one this morning. My dog says thanks

[Jim-podiatrist]

IMO, there is surely a reason why it is illegal to breed pit bulls in australia. Sure alot are probably great, until your 2yo is in front of it when it decides to attack.

You wouldnt wack your wedding tackle in a crocs mouth, even a well trained one, why on earth would you get a pit bull?

[broccoli]

Originally Posted by t00ch

My dog says thanks

I'll say thanks to your dog. I got an SMS saying I'd won their member prize and get $20 off a purchase. (sheer coincidence, but I'll give your dog the credit for it, given the timing. ) Wonder what I can buy? hmmmm.

[Melzawelza]

Originally Posted by Jim-podiatrist

IMO, there is surely a reason why it is illegal to breed pit bulls in australia. Sure alot are probably great, until your 2yo is in front of it when it decides to attack.

You wouldnt wack your wedding tackle in a crocs mouth, even a well trained one, why on earth would you get a pit bull?

The reason is that the government makes policy that is purely media based and not based on facts or science.

Restrictions based on breed are PROVEN to be ineffective. The laws are being repealed all over the world due to the bite stats not reducing (and sometimes increasing!).

A crocodile is a wild animal. A Pit Bull is a domestic dog. Your analogy does not work.

Prior to the 80s, the Pit Bull was Americas favourite family dog. Ever seen the original 'The Little Rascals'? Petey is a Pit Bull.

Back then the Dobermann was the dog that was feared like the Pit Bull is now due to the imagery of them being used by the Nazi's. The media ran with it and people were absolutely terrified of them.

Dog fighting was banned in the late 70s and there were a lot of high profile busts of fight rings. The media portrayed the dogs as vicious killers (rather than victims of asshole humans), and it's just snowballed since then.

Then you end up with a self-fufilling prophecy - the dogs are demonised and therefore assholes and criminals go for them. They're banned so there's a black market for them. Responsible owners are too scared to take their dogs out in public in case they get seized and therefore do not socialise their dogs with the world. The laws create the problem.

How many people here know that the German Shepherd was the first breed of dog to be restricted here in Australia? They had varying levels of restrictions on them all the way to outright banning them between the 40s, and the last of these laws weren't lifted until the 70s. Sound mental? It is, just like banning the Pit Bull to try and fix a problem caused by people is mental.

[5tumpy]

Originally Posted by Jim-podiatrist

IMO, there is surely a reason why it is illegal to breed pit bulls in australia. Sure alot are probably great, until your 2yo is in front of it when it decides to attack.

You wouldnt wack your wedding tackle in a crocs mouth, even a well trained one, why on earth would you get a pit bull?

I wouldn't wack (sic) my wedding tackle into any animal's mouth mate... This is the problem with arguments such as yours, and that is your fundamental misunderstanding of dogs in general... Any dog is a potential killer... I once witness an Irish Setter kill a Dachshund, and anyone who knows the breed will attest to the fact that these are some of the most docile gentle dogs on the planet... If you do not train a dog, be it a Maltese Terrier or a Pit Bull, properly, it can be dangerous...

If you look at the dog attack statistics, you'll find that there are more attacks recorded against Maltese Terriers and Labradors that any other breed...

I found this page and story interesting, Burke's Backyard did some further analysis of the statistics, and in Sydney at least, Pit Bulls aren't even in the top 10 for attacks... The top 10 is:

1. Australian Cattle Dog
2. Siberian Husky
3. Rottweiler
4. American Staffordshire Terrier
5. Staffordshire terrier
6. Bullmastiff
7. Jack Russell Terrier
8. German Shepherd
9. Border Collie
10. Labrador Retriever

(source: http://www.2ue.com.au/sydneys-most-v...030-177xu.html)

Now I know this isn't ever going to be 100% accurate, but I find it interesting that Cattle dogs, Huskies, and Rotties are statistically more likely to attack, and yet I've never heard of anyone saying they should be banned... Also, in that link there's another interesting list, and that's their safest dogs:

1. Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
2. Golden Retriever
3. Cocker Spaniel
4. Pug
5. Toy Poodle
6. Miniature Schnauzer
7. Boxer
8. Bull Terrier
9. Rhodesian Ridgeback
10. West Highland White Terrier
11. British Bulldog
12. Smooth coated Chihuahua

There's a lot there that you'd expect, smaller perhaps even more docile breeds, but there's a few there that given my own perception, I'd have thought wouldn't be on that list, like the Ridgeback for example, which were breed to be hunting and guard dogs, and yet they're statistically one of the safer breeds to own...

Now you ask if you would leave a child with a pitbull unsupervised, and the answer is of course, no... However, I would not, under any circumstances leave my daughter with a dog of any breed unsupervised, fullstop...

I will teach my daughter how to talk to our Labrador and how to respect dogs for what they are, and that is that is you should assume that all dogs are dangerous and treat them with respect... Note I said respect, not fear, because there is a massive difference!

[Grimace22]

Originally Posted by Melzawelza

Then you end up with a self-fufilling prophecy - the dogs are demonised and therefore assholes and criminals go for them. They're banned so there's a black market for them. Responsible owners are too scared to take their dogs out in public in case they get seized and therefore do not socialise their dogs with the world.

So true

Originally Posted by 5tumpy

This is the problem with arguments such as yours, and that is your fundamental misunderstanding of dogs in general... Any dog is a potential killer...

I also fully agree with this, when i got my 1st dog(my own not a family dog) about a year ago, i was looking for a English Bull Terrier or something similar, though fully against getting a pit bull. I always knew dogs can be trained(intentionally or not) to be vicious but thought pit bulls were naturally like that, I've since learnt that that's not the case. Id say a huge proportion of it is the media, which leads to Melzawelza point above.

The fact that Pit bulls were built and bred for strength and determination, isn't doing them any favours at the moment, a small dog might attack humans and other dogs 50 times over its life, but noone will care as they cant do massive damage, where as a Pit Bull or any breed built similarly will probably kill. For the short term, its unlucky "snappy dog" as they get killed but long term its the pit that suffers from bad publicity.

Not to say that there aren't horrible pit bulls out there, but from my limited research, id say its caused by bad owners.

[Bionic]

A better pic of my new Basset Hound Puppy


Click to view full size!

[Deltoid]

Less arguing, more dog pictures.

[jpw007]

Originally Posted by Bionic

A better pic of my new Basset Hound Puppy

pix

Nawwwwwwwww

[Rogue-X]

Here is my baby girl Millie. I don't know what she is except Staffy, she is the most wonderful dog even with her faults (eats undies, socks, shoes, power cords, toilet paper, plastic bottles etc)

Click to view full size!

[scon]

So we have just bought ourselves a new puppy, very excited. We pick him up in a couple of weeks time after we've moved in to our new house.

He's a male Australian Bulldog, as yet unnamed.

20120429_143120[1] by sc0n, on Flickr


20120429_143125[1] by sc0n, on Flickr


20120429_143347[1] by sc0n, on Flickr

[Jim-podiatrist]

Originally Posted by Deltoid

Less arguing, more dog pictures.

Yeah I think that was probably started by me. Soz guys.


Scon, he's v cute mate.
Registered breeder?

[scon]

Jim, yep, he's from Ali-Bro who are registered with the Australian Bulldog Society. Pick him up in 3 weeks which is super exciting. Haven't had a dog since I was in my teens because I've rented since moving out of home, we've just bought our first home so we're stoked.

[hazeroth]

OMG Scon, your pup is super cute!

haz