Turing

2xCPU · 8th June 2012, 11:24 PM

Watched a program on the life of Alan Turing tonight and it got me thinking.
I boot my current PC most mornings and turn it off at night - no big deal.

But how long will it be before turning off a computer requires a little more thought?

2.

HUMMER · 8th June 2012, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xCPU

But how long will it be before turning off a computer requires a little more thought?

come again? i don't understand that part. why would turning off computer require more thought? you mean if it becomes so entrenched in our daily lives that we have to think about whether we should turn the computer off or not? you mean like that?

chip · 8th June 2012, 11:34 PM

The OP clearly fails the Turing test.

2xCPU · 9th June 2012, 10:49 AM

Geez - I didn't think I'd have to spell it out.
Here is the primary school version.

How long will it be before a PC (or what ever we are using then) has enough conciousness that turning it off is akin to killing a living organism?

If you don't understand the question, I'm not interested in your answer.

2.

PabloEscobar · 10th June 2012, 5:36 PM

I understand the question.
I think its more suited to the pub or a philosophy forum than it is the science one.

It really hinges on your definitions.

Using Conways Game of life as an example.

the cells don't care how fast in (our) real-time a 'tick' happens. I'd imagine computer consciousness to be the same. and as such, would have no moral issues at all turning one off.

elvis · 10th June 2012, 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xCPU

Geez - I didn't think I'd have to spell it out.
Here is the primary school version.

How long will it be before a PC (or what ever we are using then) has enough conciousness that turning it off is akin to killing a living organism?

Our biological death is associated with our cells not continuing to divide, metabolism not continuing on as normal, etc. Assuming a PC can gain consciousness (which is a much deeper conversation in itself), turning off a PC is more akin to the thing being unconscious, not dead.

There's no moral ambiguity to you going to sleep, or being knocked unconscious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xCPU

If you don't understand the question, I'm not interested in your answer.

That's a bit arrogant, considering it took a pop culture TV show positing a shallow concept to spark the thought in your head to begin with. Try reading a book or two by any of the popular modern existentialists. Many of them cover the question of consciousness in machines, and their arguments for and against are still relevant today (even if many of them were writing in a time before the idea of the modern computer was even conceived, if you'll pardon the pun).

Sartre, Nietzsche, and Kant are all popular reads for budding philosophers.

chip · 10th June 2012, 7:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xCPU

If you don't understand the question, it's because I didn't put any effort into framing it unambiguously.

Fixed that for you.

lithos · 10th June 2012, 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elvis

There's no moral ambiguity to you going to sleep, or being knocked unconscious.

Well, that'd depend on how you did it...

Veefy · 11th June 2012, 5:11 PM

Probably sometime after 2360 (based on when Data from Star Trek is "born").

SLATYE · 11th June 2012, 10:19 PM

Well, it required a lot more thought to turn them off after 1995. Before that we just had a power switch. After 1995, Intel introduced ATX and we had to deal with soft-switching. Turning off a PC now means either going through the Start menu or holding the power switch down for 4+ seconds. Either way, it requires rather more thought than just flicking the switch.

There are also plenty of examples already where shutting down a computer has moral/ethical implications. For example, shutting down the flight computer in an A380 while it's half way between Sydney and New York is likely to kill 500+ people...

I think it's highly, highly unlikely that any company will produce a desktop PC that requires consideration of moral/ethical implications before being turned off. Who would buy it? Nobody!

Instead, they'll either design it to avoid these sorts of things (ie nearly sentient but not quite) or wait until society changes to avoid them (what is an ethical problem now may not always be).

kripz · 21st June 2012, 12:07 AM

Fucken Metro UI stumped me...

8th June 2012, 11:24 PM	#1
2xCPU Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: melb Posts: 2,395	Turing Watched a program on the life of Alan Turing tonight and it got me thinking. I boot my current PC most mornings and turn it off at night - no big deal. But how long will it be before turning off a computer requires a little more thought? 2. __________________ If "building a computer" doesn't involve powertools, you're just assembling spare parts. ---- The universe is made up of atoms and empty space, the rest is mere opinion. Democritus, 400 BC.

9th June 2012, 10:49 AM	#4
2xCPU Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: melb Posts: 2,395	Geez - I didn't think I'd have to spell it out. Here is the primary school version. How long will it be before a PC (or what ever we are using then) has enough conciousness that turning it off is akin to killing a living organism? If you don't understand the question, I'm not interested in your answer. 2. __________________ If "building a computer" doesn't involve powertools, you're just assembling spare parts. ---- The universe is made up of atoms and empty space, the rest is mere opinion. Democritus, 400 BC.

11th June 2012, 10:19 PM	#10
SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canberra Posts: 25,776	Well, it required a lot more thought to turn them off after 1995. Before that we just had a power switch. After 1995, Intel introduced ATX and we had to deal with soft-switching. Turning off a PC now means either going through the Start menu or holding the power switch down for 4+ seconds. Either way, it requires rather more thought than just flicking the switch. There are also plenty of examples already where shutting down a computer has moral/ethical implications. For example, shutting down the flight computer in an A380 while it's half way between Sydney and New York is likely to kill 500+ people... I think it's highly, highly unlikely that any company will produce a desktop PC that requires consideration of moral/ethical implications before being turned off. Who would buy it? Nobody! Instead, they'll either design it to avoid these sorts of things (ie nearly sentient but not quite) or wait until society changes to avoid them (what is an ethical problem now may not always be). __________________ Main system: Phenom II X4 920 \| 8GB (4x 2GB) DDR2-800 \| Gigabyte M57SLI-S4 v2.0 \| Leadtek Geforce 9600GSO 384MB \| Enermax Modu82+ 525W \| 1TB Hitachi HDD \| 3.5" + 5.25" FDD Laptop: Compal EL80 \| C2D T7200 \| 320GB Fujistu HDD \| 2GB DDR2-667 \| GF Go 7600

21st June 2012, 12:07 AM	#11
kripz Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Near Frankston Spam: 577 Posts: 2,365	Fucken Metro UI stumped me... __________________ My Rig » i5 3550k, Asrock Z77 Extreme4, HIS 7970 My Successful Trades » 28

8th June 2012, 11:34 PM	#3
chip Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Adelaide (west side) Posts: 2,409	The OP clearly fails the Turing test.

10th June 2012, 5:36 PM	#5
PabloEscobar Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,817	I understand the question. I think its more suited to the pub or a philosophy forum than it is the science one. It really hinges on your definitions. Using Conways Game of life as an example. the cells don't care how fast in (our) real-time a 'tick' happens. I'd imagine computer consciousness to be the same. and as such, would have no moral issues at all turning one off.