IT setup on a small budget - Page 6

andyroo54 · 30th June 2012, 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soarer GT

This thread has so much lolz.

But as a Dell Pro Support user/abuser. They do show up with pretty much a replacement machine and anything that even looks suspect gets replaced. This is no questions asked.

5 stars to dell server hardware pro support.

Dell Equalogic/VMware team though? Yeah... look somewhere else. Dell is trying to branch out as a solutions provider, but their systems technicians just arent there yet. That said, If you call up a dell account rep and ask them for a solution for your needs, they'll take time to get a solution for you. Just sit down when they tell you the price tag.

I recognise the username from Toymods..

Mitch01 · 1st July 2012, 2:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyroo54

Generally their "next day delivery" is two or more days if you are a rural customer. Even longer if they don't have the stock.

Sorry, and I'm probably Dells BIGGEST bagger when it comes to their gear, BUT...

One of our clients went out about bought 5 Dell Laptops and 5 Dell Business Workstations.

In 3 years they've had 4 warranty issues, but every time it's been Dell out there the next morning with a brand new replacement part.

This bloke is out in Gloucester. Big kudos to Dell there, despite the fact they shouldn't need to rely on support in first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyroo54

There is zero difference in reliability between 'business grade' and 'consumer grade' generally. Our 'business grade' HP hard drives fail more than any other brands I've seen. It's a total joke.

There are only 2 hard drive manufacturers anymore.

Seagate and WD. Seagate OEM for HP these days, but with HP own firmware on the drives.

Previously they used a mismatch of whatever they could get.

and I've had far more consumer than business grade gear fail. That said we DID have a DOA on a motherboard in an HP Server (only DOA I've had from HP in 100+ server sales), but we had an HP tech out at our office in 2 hours , replaced the board and tested it.

dink · 1st July 2012, 10:58 AM

I support 350 odd Optiplex/Latitude Desktops/Laptops and about 30 PowerEdge Rack/Tower servers all on Pro Support. I can probably count on one hand the amount of support calls we have done in the last 3 years. In fact, I have so little problems with Dell gear, that I am starting to think that Pro Support is not really required. At least I can guarantee that the computers will last 5 years.

When I do call support, they will have parts and a tech out the very next day to fix the issues. No complaints at all.

chip · 1st July 2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch01

There are only 2 hard drive manufacturers anymore.

Not quite, part of the US FTC's requirements for WD to buy Hitachi GST was that they had to sell a lot of Hitachi's IP and manufacturing capabilities to Toshiba. What effect this has remains to be seen, and in the interim Hitachi are still operating as an independent subsidiary.

But the end result is still a shitty one for anyone looking to purchase spinning storage.

elvis · 1st July 2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch01

Sorry, and I'm probably Dells BIGGEST bagger when it comes to their gear, BUT...

One of our clients went out about bought 5 Dell Laptops and 5 Dell Business Workstations.

In 3 years they've had 4 warranty issues, but every time it's been Dell out there the next morning with a brand new replacement part.

This bloke is out in Gloucester. Big kudos to Dell there, despite the fact they shouldn't need to rely on support in first place.

Agreed.

I've said it countless times on these forums - nobody buys Dell for the quality of their hardware. Everybody buys Dell for the quality of their service.

Buy the business-grade support, skip the Indian call centres, and get a technician on your doorstep with replacement parts 4 hours after you make a single phone call. No bullshit, no angst, no grief.

Dell hardware is no better than the crap you'd buy from Bob's local PC mart, but again that's not why you buy it.

Any business user with a clear head will have the common sense about them to get insurance. Yet my mind is blown every time I see business users buy hardware without vendor support.

Mitch01 · 1st July 2012, 11:52 AM

That said (and this is probably more for another thread), but what would you classify as "good after sales support".

By that I mean, do you consider good support:
1. Calling and having a tech out promptly to resolve whatever has broken ; or
2. Never knowing what support is like because the device has been faultless.

It is very much a catch 22 situation really. If an item is reliable it should never break down (in warranty period), and therefore you should never need to know how good the support is. On the flipside, knowing that any part that does fail will be fixed promptly is another good thing.

Hard call really, because with one you'll KNOW how much downtime you are up for. With the other you may not ever have any downtime, but any problem may be a lengthy one, but that's a risk you take.

I've got a customer out there still running on a Compaq ProLiant ML350 G2. Never missed a beat.

vindicator · 1st July 2012, 2:38 PM

Entertaining yet very scary thread.

KevlarCoated · 1st July 2012, 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch01

That said (and this is probably more for another thread), but what would you classify as "good after sales support".

By that I mean, do you consider good support:
1. Calling and having a tech out promptly to resolve whatever has broken ; or
2. Never knowing what support is like because the device has been faultless

I think I would prefer option 1, theres always a chance that there will be a fault regardless of how slim that chance is. Atleast with option 1 you can decide what an acceptable downtime is pay appropriate amounts to guarantee its the max.

It looks like the best option is going to be a server running SBS, either an ML350 or a T420 assuming that the prices come out ok.
What minimum specs would people recommend? Assuming that it will be running exchange (just in case) but primarily as a file server and domain controller. Ive read that 8gb is bare minimum for ram and 16gb is recommended, is that true in peoples experience? Also what CPU should be considered at a minimum and which raid card for Raid 6 would people recommend?
Harddrives Im hoping for 6x2TB which is likely going to be what destroys the budget.

Mitch01 · 1st July 2012, 4:18 PM

Any ML350 with 12 or 16GB of RAM will be fine. Even the low end XEONs are fine what what you are running.

It'll take 8 x Large Form Factor (3.5") SATA/SAS drives, 18 RAM slots, BUT RAID 6 you'll require a "Smart Array Advanced Pack License key" to unlock on the ML350. I *think* (though you'd need to confirm with HP) that they require a minimum of 8 drives for RAID 6 or RAID 60. I normally just run them in RAID5.

Also keep in mind with the HP ML350 that it NEEDS to be the P410i with 256MB (or higher) controller to run RAID 5. The Zero Memory controller doesn't support R5.

NSanity · 1st July 2012, 4:28 PM

Any Quad Core or better CPU will work. Dual Cores would probably do it as well, but you might need to watch the ghz.

Ram, well stuff as much as you can in it. I don't do SBS 2011 Standard with less than 32GB now - the internal databases seem to run away with all the ram if you don't, and its cheap to get there.

newgen · 2nd July 2012, 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch01

SAN/NAS/Cloud Computing are all buzzwords that sound super cool, and might be the in thing because all the "hip and modern" places are doing it, but do they really assist you in reaching your goal?

Did I just read this? lol Yeah, pretty sure SAN + NAS are very real and not just buzz terms.. and like it or not Cloud Computing is a term that's here to stay, love it or hate it, but it's used when referring to real technology. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing this for, if you're doing it wrong. I've met countless IT admins who've been in the game way longer than I have who have NFI when it comes to certain things... makes my job more interesting I guess.

My advice is try to spend a bit more if you can for support/warranty.. try and stick with a reputable vendor, or even the same one for as much hardware as you can. I, like a lot of others would have no problems recommending Dell. Also, COVER YOUR ARSE.. make sure your boss is aware of what your solution will deliver and what it will not.. e.g. in terms of hardware failures/turnaround times + downtime etc.

ra66it · 3rd July 2012, 9:14 AM

Interesting that dell is supposed to have good customer service.. .

I've been trying to get them to pick up some new server parts that were delivered to my workplace by mistake - first contact was a month ago and they still can't manage to send a courier to pick them up.

I tried calling, submitting tickets etc. Totally useless.

pengy · 3rd July 2012, 9:59 AM

Cheap, easy, useful. Pick any two.

By the way, IBM has one of the best corporate hardware support offerings. Only catch is the bill for it.

iphex · 3rd July 2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ra66it

Interesting that dell is supposed to have good customer service.. .

I've been trying to get them to pick up some new server parts that were delivered to my workplace by mistake - first contact was a month ago and they still can't manage to send a courier to pick them up.

I tried calling, submitting tickets etc. Totally useless.

Id see that as code for they dont want those parts back.

KevlarCoated · 3rd July 2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newgen

My advice is try to spend a bit more if you can for support/warranty.. try and stick with a reputable vendor, or even the same one for as much hardware as you can. I, like a lot of others would have no problems recommending Dell. Also, COVER YOUR ARSE.. make sure your boss is aware of what your solution will deliver and what it will not.. e.g. in terms of hardware failures/turnaround times + downtime etc.

Thanks for the advice, the budget is a bit flexible but anything extra has to be justified with the benifits. Its looking like the uses are the server are creeping a bit, I am going to get a full list of all the requirements in writing so that every knows what we are going to get and I know what I need the system to be capable of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pengy

Cheap, easy, useful. Pick any two.

By the way, IBM has one of the best corporate hardware support offerings. Only catch is the bill for it.

I like the sound of the support, not the price, I will look into IBM servers and see what the prices look like.

1st July 2012, 10:58 AM	#78
dink Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Brisneyland Posts: 7,513	I support 350 odd Optiplex/Latitude Desktops/Laptops and about 30 PowerEdge Rack/Tower servers all on Pro Support. I can probably count on one hand the amount of support calls we have done in the last 3 years. In fact, I have so little problems with Dell gear, that I am starting to think that Pro Support is not really required. At least I can guarantee that the computers will last 5 years. When I do call support, they will have parts and a tech out the very next day to fix the issues. No complaints at all. __________________ 10 years and counting

1st July 2012, 11:52 AM	#81
Mitch01 Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 27,590	That said (and this is probably more for another thread), but what would you classify as "good after sales support". By that I mean, do you consider good support: 1. Calling and having a tech out promptly to resolve whatever has broken ; or 2. Never knowing what support is like because the device has been faultless. It is very much a catch 22 situation really. If an item is reliable it should never break down (in warranty period), and therefore you should never need to know how good the support is. On the flipside, knowing that any part that does fail will be fixed promptly is another good thing. Hard call really, because with one you'll KNOW how much downtime you are up for. With the other you may not ever have any downtime, but any problem may be a lengthy one, but that's a risk you take. I've got a customer out there still running on a Compaq ProLiant ML350 G2. Never missed a beat. __________________ "I think in this world, if you can do something you love as a job and it doesn't feel like a job that is one of the greatest gifts you can have" - Hugh Jackman 2009

1st July 2012, 2:38 PM	#82
vindicator Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: LoNoSho Posts: 6,481	Entertaining yet very scary thread. __________________ Sucessfully sold to: JeffK, Pzest, Hardboiled, chugga15, havoc_1710, Surge, bondy_112, TRiN, kangfu, maddcore, hobo-jo, dwdc, Nanokillaz, PooJou, $tealthFiga, smoothunit, Wozzernux, core2dubious Sucessfully bought from: actinium, kogi, z2177199

1st July 2012, 4:18 PM	#84
Mitch01 Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 27,590	Any ML350 with 12 or 16GB of RAM will be fine. Even the low end XEONs are fine what what you are running. It'll take 8 x Large Form Factor (3.5") SATA/SAS drives, 18 RAM slots, BUT RAID 6 you'll require a "Smart Array Advanced Pack License key" to unlock on the ML350. I think (though you'd need to confirm with HP) that they require a minimum of 8 drives for RAID 6 or RAID 60. I normally just run them in RAID5. Also keep in mind with the HP ML350 that it NEEDS to be the P410i with 256MB (or higher) controller to run RAID 5. The Zero Memory controller doesn't support R5. __________________ "I think in this world, if you can do something you love as a job and it doesn't feel like a job that is one of the greatest gifts you can have" - Hugh Jackman 2009

1st July 2012, 4:28 PM	#85
NSanity Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bathurst, NSW Posts: 6,947	Any Quad Core or better CPU will work. Dual Cores would probably do it as well, but you might need to watch the ghz. Ram, well stuff as much as you can in it. I don't do SBS 2011 Standard with less than 32GB now - the internal databases seem to run away with all the ram if you don't, and its cheap to get there. __________________ Intel i7-3770k @ stock \| Asus P8Z77 WS \| 32GB Corsair Vengeance 1866 10-11-10-30 \| 2x EVGA GTX670 SLI FTW @ stock \| 1x Dell U3011 \| OCZ Revodrive3 X2 MAXIOPS 480GB \| Western Digital 2TB Caviar Black \| Asus Essence STX \| Audio-Technica ATH-AD900 \| Antec HCP-1200 \| Enermax Fulmo GT Midtower \| Synology DS2411+ NAS \| 12x Seagate 2TB 7200.12 i'm in your noun, verbing your related noun.

3rd July 2012, 9:14 AM	#87
ra66it Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 823	Interesting that dell is supposed to have good customer service.. . I've been trying to get them to pick up some new server parts that were delivered to my workplace by mistake - first contact was a month ago and they still can't manage to send a courier to pick them up. I tried calling, submitting tickets etc. Totally useless.

3rd July 2012, 9:59 AM	#88
pengy Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Melbourne Posts: 293	Cheap, easy, useful. Pick any two. By the way, IBM has one of the best corporate hardware support offerings. Only catch is the bill for it.