Homebrew.

[ditch_101]

Does anybody have any experience with something a tad more commercial than your standard 'beer brewing starter kit' off the shelf?

Something like one of these for example?

http://www.beerbelly.com.au/turnkey.html

Also is anybody here into any commercial brewing?

Cheers.

[Oosh]

Plenty of people on AHB run that sort of setup and a few in here who will hopefully chime in shortly.

But what you linked still only makes 25-75L batches, depending on which you choose, well short of commercial scale IMO.
Even so-called 'nano-breweries' operate at about 200L.

Edit: But what is it exactly you want to know?

[vortex]

Originally Posted by ditch_101

Does anybody have any experience with something a tad more commercial than your standard 'beer brewing starter kit' off the shelf?

Something like one of these for example?

http://www.beerbelly.com.au/turnkey.html

Also is anybody here into any commercial brewing?

Cheers.

The BB gear is great; I have a 70L kettle from there and their shop is where I do most of my brew gear and ingredients shopping - but I have a RIMS home brewery in planning at the moment and i'm pretty sure it'll be brewing for around $1k.

Having said that, there's no way you need an expensive system like that to brew all-grain - and quality all-grain too.

Like any hobby, you can make it as cheap or as expensive as you like - and the brewery you're using contributes very little to the quality of the beer you make - it's more down to simple process things (correct yeast pitching rate, healthy yeast, consistant fermentation temps etc) that determine weather your beer will be good or not.

[ditch_101]

Thanks for the info, I never knew of AHB until now, I'll have a look around.

Basically I'm just looking at options that are as I mentioned, a step up from your standard kits. There's obviously a lot more to it, but at this stage it's all a bit overwhelming. Going from a kit, to anything really is a huge step. So many abbreviations and acronyms that I have NO idea about

I agree those kits do seem expensive but as something that is all ready to go and you don't have to worry about missing something here or there, it seems quite good.

So just so I have an idea, what would something even larger be? Something that produces around the 200L mark as you mentioned? What are the costs for something like this?

Thanks for the help.

[J-C90]

BB make some nice gear, mine isnt as bling as their offering but works good enough for me and cost no where near as much!

[vortex]

Originally Posted by ditch_101

So many abbreviations and acronyms that I have NO idea about

http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html Old-ish version now, but the terms are all there There's a printed version which is more recent, but for the basic terms and processes not much has changed. All the terms i've used below I've tried to include the meaning Brewers never like to use a simple word when a complex one will say the same thing

Originally Posted by ditch_101

I agree those kits do seem expensive but as something that is all ready to go and you don't have to worry about missing something here or there, it seems quite good.

For a beginner, they're over complex. In my opinion you should understand the entire process before considering outlaying that kind of money for a system like that; and by piecing a system together as your skill and requirements change you will learn why something is the way it is, and build it to suit exactly what you need.

You can make a fantastic beer with a BIAB (brew in a bag) setup, or you can jump head first into 3V (three vessel; hot liquor (water) tun/tank (HLT), mash/lauter tun (MLT) and boil kettle) and batch sparge (rinsing the wort from the grains, in batches) in an esky & DIY false bottom (keeps the grain out of the wort) or copper manifold, and a cheap 19L pot from BigW (Buy N' Large), brewing on the stove. I did my first AG like this, even crushed the grain by hand with a rolling pin. All 5kg of it! The beer turned out awesome, for the record.

All i've done since is upgrade the burner to an NG 23jet Mongolian, and bought a larger kettle so I can handle double batches later on. Picked up couple of other things such as grain mill (so i can crush my own grain) and plate chiller (counterflow chiller, to cool the wort coming out of the kettle after the boil), too. Naturally i've moved outside as well

If you're just wanting to make better beer than what you get from a standard home brew kit & kilo - All-Grain isn't guaranteed to make better beer. Extract can make a good beer, and All-Grain can make a crap beer (I've done both!). There are things you can do to improve the quality of Extract beers, and personally I would suggest mastering some of these things first, they will help your Extract beers, and they translate directly into the AG world too. Sanitation (star-san is the best for this), Pitching an active yeast starter, Pitching the correct quantity of yeast, and proper fermentation temperature control.

Originally Posted by ditch_101

So just so I have an idea, what would something even larger be? Something that produces around the 200L mark as you mentioned? What are the costs for something like this?

I hate to think what they cost to setup! I'd like to setup a brew pub some day, the brewery itself will be damn expensive if I was to buy new!

[ditch_101]

Thanks Vortex. I actually just watched a REALLY informative video on all-grain brewing. Managed to find it sifting through some pages on AHB.

Here is the link for anyone who is interested. Extremely noob friendly which is great for those making the jump to AG from kits.



It's a 4-part series created by a Canadian guy. All easy to understand. He's probably not doing things exactly right with his DIY setup, but having watched that, I actually read your post and could make sense of it. 1 hour ago I would have had no idea at all

I certainly won't be running out and purchasing an $8000 setup from BB, but it's good to know how you could essentially build your own setup for much less.

The reason I ask how you create larger batches is because I just genuinely want to know, do they essentially take the same principal and do it on a larger scale? I'm just finding it hard to put it all together in my head. Where does brewing into kegs come into play?

Anyway thanks for the tips.

[ditch_101]

This is an awesome looking setup by the way! Wish I currently had space for something like this at my place

Originally Posted by J-C90

BB make some nice gear, mine isnt as bling as their offering but works good enough for me and cost no where near as much!

image

[Oosh]

Originally Posted by ditch_101

Basically I'm just looking at options that are as I mentioned, a step up from your standard kits. There's obviously a lot more to it, but at this stage it's all a bit overwhelming. Going from a kit, to anything really is a huge step. So many abbreviations and acronyms that I have NO idea about

I know exactly what you mean, which is why I started my all-grain adventure by doing mini "Brew in a Bag", a few months ago.
I'm very happy with the results thus far.

See: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh....php?t=1015119

I've since bought a large burner to got with that pot so I can get out of the kitchen and start doing full batches again.

[vortex]

Originally Posted by ditch_101

The reason I ask how you create larger batches is because I just genuinely want to know, do they essentially take the same principal and do it on a larger scale? I'm just finding it hard to put it all together in my head.

The principles are exactly the same, it's just done on a larger scale. Bigger vessels (4V in some breweries, they may have separate mash and lauter tuns for example) That's why you hear about so many Pro brewers who started out as Home brewers.

Originally Posted by ditch_101

Where does brewing into kegs come into play?

Anyone can rack (transfer the beer) into a keg! You would go through the normal fermentation process, and when the beer is finished fermenting it's siphoned or run into the keg (maintain sanitation while doing this), and then C02 from a bottle is applied to carbonate the beer.

Most home brewers will use Cornelius kegs which are ex-softdrink syrup kegs from the USA. They are 19L/5 Gallons and perfect for a single batch of beer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_keg The supply is beginning to dry up from stores now and most of the ones left now are a bit ratty - but provided they hold pressure that's the main thing as the seals can be replaced easily with a socket set. They often come up second hand for between $50 and $100 each. I have seven myself

Alternatively the 50L kegs you see Pubs using can also be used, but the connector is totally different to the Corney kegs - and often these kegs are owned by the brewery so having one in your possession isn't 100% legal. Having said that there are ways to buy them legally (I hear Keg King in Melbourne sells surplus 50L kegs cheap, perfect for brewing vessels).

[J-C90]

Best place to start some more serious brewing I found, once you want to go beyond the kit cans, is to aquire a pot large enough to do a full boil(30-50L pot or vessel) and play around with some recipes using un-hopped malt extract and adding hops through the boil. One of the best beers I've made was an extract IPA using all dry malt extract, some steeped specialty grains and a full boil for hop additions. The secret is to be able boil the whole batch, this made the biggest difference to the quality of the final beer I found.

This is the first step towards making quality craft beer and moving to all grain. You can then stick with extract brewing or re-use the equipment later for brew in a bag(BIAB) or as a component in a 3 vessel system. As menioned, Keg King has already converted(top cut out and tap fitted) legal 50L kegs available at pretty good prices which can be used for this, if your in Melbourne! They are a good place to start.

The cold side(pitching yeast, fermenting, bottling or kegging) for all the various methods of brewing is exactly the same.

A mate of mine has just started up a website with some handy info for novice brewers - might be worth checking out too:

http://www.thebeerengineer.org/

[aXis]

Originally Posted by ditch_101

Does anybody have any experience with something a tad more commercial than your standard 'beer brewing starter kit' off the shelf? Something like one of these for example? http://www.beerbelly.com.au/turnkey.html

Also is anybody here into any commercial brewing?

All grain home brewer here, plus I regularly help out a mate who is a commercial microbrewer.

Yep, essentially you can scale up those three vessel systems as far as you like, my mate does 300L batches back to back for a 600L brewday. The principles are all the same, just sometimes there are difficulties (and benefits) due to scale.

Home all grain systems can be anywhere from $200 to $2000 in parts and still achieve the same results, though controlability and ease of use will vary. My current kit is a plastic esky and stainless pot, but plan to build a full stainless 3 vessel similar to J-C90's (looks awesome by the way) very soon.

[ditch_101]

To all those running 3 vessel keg systems, what is the next step for you guys wanting to produce larger quantities?

I'm currently looking at the largest setup that seems feasible. If i was to purchase a 98L pot (seems to be the biggest) to run as my Boil kettle, what would be a suitable container of reasonable size to be my mash (MLT???) ? Something that isn't an esky...it seems an esky wouldn't be large enough to keep up with the 98L kettle? How does one physically pickup and empty into the mash tun? Or is that where pumps and gravity come into play?

Also then what would be suitable for the third vessel? I think the 3 vessel setups are giving me the headaches....

Sorry for all the noob questions, I feel like I've almost got my head around it all now, the simple setups make sense, I'm just confused about larger scale operations.

I'm really tossing up between jumping in the deep end and starting with a larger setup as opposed to wasting money setting up a cheap basic system and immediately wanting a larger system...

[Oosh]

As a guide:

Originally Posted by Beer Belly

98 litre HLT, 70 litre mashtun and 98 litre kettle ~ 40 to 75 litre batches (into the fermenter)

http://www.beerbelly.com.au/mashpilot.html

Then you need a 100L fermenter, and a method to control brew temperature.

Simplest way to stable temps is probably just brewing ales and in winter with a heater pad.
But ideally you'd want to combine it with a dedicated fridge or freezer and an external controller fitted (can be a pretty trivial addition btw).

Edit:
Pumps shift the liquid and you'll find most mash tuns will tip to help get spent grain out.
As I shift to using more grain in my BIAB setup I'll be putting a pulley under the pergola to aid pulling it out and draining.

[vortex]

Are you wanting to only brew for you and your mates, or are you wanting to go commercial?

Usually the kettle is the largest vessel. My system is planning be 50/50/70, where that's the volumes of the hot liquor tank, mash tun and kettle. You would generally re-fill the HLT and start heating the water up to mash out temp once you've mashed in, because you will need to sparge (weather that's batch or fly doesn't really matter) to fill the kettle. If your target batch size was say 45L into the fermenter you will need around 43L in the kettle at flame out (not including losses to hops and trub) which means at the start of the boil you'll need around 55 - 60L in the kettle.

Having said that, you don't always have to have a 100L system to brew 100L of beer. You can always do what the commercial breweries do, and just brew three times (or more) in a day to fill a fermenter

I would suggest starting small and cheap, and upgrading later.