So this hacking thing.....

gruntLOL · 12th August 2012, 10:44 PM

Just watched some unreleased doco about hacking on vimeo tonight for a change because a full blown 2.5 hour movie just didn't seem like a good idea tonight. Anyway there was a lot of the usual dumbed down drivel about good hackers vs crackers and that "Oh no Russia or Iraq will hack us all and combine with nukes etc etc". But listening to some of the other comments from actual hackers was somewhat interesting although I think they blow it out their ass a bit.

Was just interested though to see here from people who program regularly do any of you feel you have ever hacked or class yourself as a hacker and if so what sorts of things do you do? I'm not saying you have to be hacking other peoples servers and getting emails and bank details, it might just be testing your home network or in the traditional hacker sense of optimizing others code or butchering their software to make it do something else entirely.

Been slowly teaching myself to program and quite frankly if I had more time outside of uni to work on my own projects I'd be mucking around a lot with code and trying to do some cool stuff but not once have I ever thought hacking to be a fun idea or anything I would actually do (if I had the skill). They were crapping on about it how made them more analytical and that they gained more knowledge from trying to exploit systems but I personally don't get it.

I've got some cool little apps I'd like to develop at home that I can run on an internal system here to do some cool little automated tasks maybe share them with people but I don't really call that hacking although by definition in this movie it sort of is?

Anyway just be cool to see what everyone thinks, if this hacking thing is all just media hype / lame or if you guys do genuinely hack / feel like a hacker.

Wolfje · 13th August 2012, 11:47 AM

Depends.

I find 'hacking' an interesting term because it means so many ~~incorrect~~ things. I currently go around (and really enjoy) writing software to make devices which we have little to no documentation for, work to requirements. They are closed, expensive, and pretty mysterious in how they work.

The discovery of information and studying it until you can make it work to your will is pretty satisfying.

I guess you could call that 'hacking'.

BeanerSA · 13th August 2012, 11:53 AM

I often refer to myself as a 'hack'. I just like to muck around with stuff, usually unproductively, to see how it works, how I can (physically) break it, if I can improve it, that sort of thing. Whether it be the works network, my home network, a public network, the vacuum cleaner, an old laptop. You get the picture.

Dreakoth · 13th August 2012, 3:14 PM

There is hacking as in 'hacking' into something - imagine useing an axe to break into a bank

There is hacking as in 'hacking' apart something - imagine using an axe to find out whats inside a vacuum cleaner and how it works

There is hacking as in a 'hack job' aka 'hatchet job' imagine using an axe to build a kettle (wouldnt be very pretty but it works)

All three relate to each other aswell in the sense you could be hacking apart some software that a bank uses, and use that knowledge to hack into said bank, maybe you need to hack up a script to use to attack the softwares weak point to do it (hacking bank).

Wolfje · 13th August 2012, 4:10 PM

Shitload o' media hype over it though.

gruntLOL · 13th August 2012, 4:22 PM

Yeah the doco just got me wondering because out of everyone I know that codes none of them are script kiddies or do anything malicious or even have any interest in breaking stuff apart, they just like to write up apps for fun or try and make simple games etc.

Personally I'd really love to be part of a project where I could put my basic programming skills to the test and improve on them but I only know Java so I guess I'll just be content with stuffing around at home for the time being.

Wolfje · 13th August 2012, 5:24 PM

Then chuck yourself in the deep end with some other languages.

C# is nearly identical.

Foliage · 23rd August 2012, 8:08 PM

I've reverse engineered existing software, protocols, found passwords that software uses by analysing the data it sends/requests in SQL strings etc.

Nothing that out there but I would consider it traditional code hacking using various tools to do so.

It is pretty fun when you reverse engineer a completely undocumented library and make better use of it than the company's software that it ships with, even better when you do this after asking for them to write an addon package to do what you want and they say "too hard"

I've never attempted any malicious hacking apart from using various posted about exploits (being a script kiddy) on old vbulletin forums so you could get admin access etc.

xsive · 12th September 2012, 8:15 AM

Hacker. It doesn't mean what you think it does. At least not to anyone who isn't an electronic thief or vandal looking for media attention.

MR CHILLED · 12th September 2012, 8:22 AM

Means many different things really. But the term always reminds me of the hacking of the nukes by the kids in that movie

War Games...heh

oclockforlyfe · 13th September 2012, 7:53 PM

Why can't hackers learn to use the goddamn mouse.

zach · 13th September 2012, 7:55 PM

Film-makers should read The Cathedral and the Bazaar before they attempt to portray hackers.

EDIT: What xsive said.

Foliage · 13th September 2012, 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oclockforlyfe

Why can't hackers learn to use the goddamn mouse.

Keyboard is far more efficient once you are proficient at it by mapping shortcuts and macros, if you ever look at a pro emacs/vim user hack away it is pretty amazing to watch, you are kind of like

My old work mate would do everything from linux cmd line within a shell window inside of emacs, he only had a mouse for when he had to use his windows machine to program microchips. He had one of those oldschool IBM keyboards as well so it just sounded impressive as you could hear tap tap tap.

k1ll3r · 19th September 2012, 2:38 PM

Link to doco you watched?

deepspring · 22nd September 2012, 11:55 PM

<rant>
I cringe every time I hear or read the words "hacking" and "documentary" in the same sentence, having watched quite a few over the years.

Why? because I know that they are going to blow it all out of proportion and make it seem exciting, glamorous, and cool. These documentaries usually gush with sensationalism, dramatisations, flashy graphics, and all the while trickling the actual facts.

Most of these documentaries source their highly accurate information from books like: "Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution" by Steven Levey or from flash-in-a-pan news reports.

They usually interview some talented 17 year old thats somehow managed to exploit a known flaw in IIS or a legacy version of Apache or done a SQL Injection or *shudder with fear* done a DDoS on a bank/IRC Network.

Then they interview a Phreaker (phone hacker) that was able make collect calls via some companies poorly configured PABX...
</rant>

Ok... I'm done. Oh! is that the time.

12th August 2012, 10:44 PM	#1
gruntLOL Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Adelaide Posts: 2,766	So this hacking thing..... Just watched some unreleased doco about hacking on vimeo tonight for a change because a full blown 2.5 hour movie just didn't seem like a good idea tonight. Anyway there was a lot of the usual dumbed down drivel about good hackers vs crackers and that "Oh no Russia or Iraq will hack us all and combine with nukes etc etc". But listening to some of the other comments from actual hackers was somewhat interesting although I think they blow it out their ass a bit. Was just interested though to see here from people who program regularly do any of you feel you have ever hacked or class yourself as a hacker and if so what sorts of things do you do? I'm not saying you have to be hacking other peoples servers and getting emails and bank details, it might just be testing your home network or in the traditional hacker sense of optimizing others code or butchering their software to make it do something else entirely. Been slowly teaching myself to program and quite frankly if I had more time outside of uni to work on my own projects I'd be mucking around a lot with code and trying to do some cool stuff but not once have I ever thought hacking to be a fun idea or anything I would actually do (if I had the skill). They were crapping on about it how made them more analytical and that they gained more knowledge from trying to exploit systems but I personally don't get it. I've got some cool little apps I'd like to develop at home that I can run on an internal system here to do some cool little automated tasks maybe share them with people but I don't really call that hacking although by definition in this movie it sort of is? Anyway just be cool to see what everyone thinks, if this hacking thing is all just media hype / lame or if you guys do genuinely hack / feel like a hacker.

13th August 2012, 3:14 PM	#4
Dreakoth Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 112	There is hacking as in 'hacking' into something - imagine useing an axe to break into a bank There is hacking as in 'hacking' apart something - imagine using an axe to find out whats inside a vacuum cleaner and how it works There is hacking as in a 'hack job' aka 'hatchet job' imagine using an axe to build a kettle (wouldnt be very pretty but it works) All three relate to each other aswell in the sense you could be hacking apart some software that a bank uses, and use that knowledge to hack into said bank, maybe you need to hack up a script to use to attack the softwares weak point to do it (hacking bank). Last edited by Dreakoth; 13th August 2012 at 3:18 PM.

23rd August 2012, 8:08 PM	#8
Foliage Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sleepwithyourdadelaide Posts: 23,623	I've reverse engineered existing software, protocols, found passwords that software uses by analysing the data it sends/requests in SQL strings etc. Nothing that out there but I would consider it traditional code hacking using various tools to do so. It is pretty fun when you reverse engineer a completely undocumented library and make better use of it than the company's software that it ships with, even better when you do this after asking for them to write an addon package to do what you want and they say "too hard" I've never attempted any malicious hacking apart from using various posted about exploits (being a script kiddy) on old vbulletin forums so you could get admin access etc. __________________ I like to construct strong views on random things, and then argue for absolutely no reason about them.

12th September 2012, 8:22 AM	#10
MR CHILLED D'oh! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Keep it up! :D Posts: 89,925	Means many different things really. But the term always reminds me of the hacking of the nukes by the kids in that movie War Games...heh __________________ Co2 is weightless apparently. Be careful what you vote for. Howard on the economy: ''When the Prime Minister and the Treasurer and others tell you that the Australian economy is doing better than most – they are right,'' Asked how cash payments of baby bonus and school bonus are any different, Opposition Leader tony abbott says 'well look, they just are.'

13th September 2012, 7:53 PM	#11
oclockforlyfe Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: perth Posts: 330	Why can't hackers learn to use the goddamn mouse. __________________ Successful trades with: jamesvdm, AMLagonda, yotka, Mr Picolenie

13th August 2012, 4:22 PM	#6
gruntLOL Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Adelaide Posts: 2,766	Yeah the doco just got me wondering because out of everyone I know that codes none of them are script kiddies or do anything malicious or even have any interest in breaking stuff apart, they just like to write up apps for fun or try and make simple games etc. Personally I'd really love to be part of a project where I could put my basic programming skills to the test and improve on them but I only know Java so I guess I'll just be content with stuffing around at home for the time being.

13th September 2012, 7:55 PM	#12
zach Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: chermside.bris.qld.au:80 Posts: 2,568	Film-makers should read The Cathedral and the Bazaar before they attempt to portray hackers. EDIT: What xsive said.

19th September 2012, 2:38 PM	#14
k1ll3r Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Geraldton, WA Posts: 1,621	Link to doco you watched? __________________ i7 920 \| 4GB DDR3 1333Mhz \| 1 x 640GB + 1 x 1TB \| Gigabyte EX58-UD3R \| Gigabyte HD 6870 1GB \| Corsair 620W PSU \| Windows 7 64-bit \| Samsung 22" LCD Game Name Xaliba

22nd September 2012, 11:55 PM	#15
deepspring Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: No Where Posts: 3,244	<rant> I cringe every time I hear or read the words "hacking" and "documentary" in the same sentence, having watched quite a few over the years. Why? because I know that they are going to blow it all out of proportion and make it seem exciting, glamorous, and cool. These documentaries usually gush with sensationalism, dramatisations, flashy graphics, and all the while trickling the actual facts. Most of these documentaries source their highly accurate information from books like: "Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution" by Steven Levey or from flash-in-a-pan news reports. They usually interview some talented 17 year old thats somehow managed to exploit a known flaw in IIS or a legacy version of Apache or done a SQL Injection or shudder with fear done a DDoS on a bank/IRC Network. Then they interview a Phreaker (phone hacker) that was able make collect calls via some companies poorly configured PABX... </rant> Ok... I'm done. Oh! is that the time.