Guitar amps, distortion and overdrive ???

[-Rift-]

I have a big (sorta) question if someone would be kind enough to explain it for me...

Ok, without getting complicated and I'm sure there are exception, you have two types of amps, Solid State and Valve. A solid state is basically just an amplifier, it makes the sound louder as is the valve. Turning the distortion on on the Solid state is like adding a distortion pedal its just electronics altering the sound... right? Turning the distortion on the valve, overdrives the valves so they effectivly distort and you get distortion... right? So you add a distortion pedal to a tube amp and your just running it clean but the pedal makes the distortion?? I'm confused, so whats the difference between an overdrive pedal, a distortion pedal and solidstate distortion and valve distortion and what gets used with what? If I run out and buy a valve amp what happens when I plug in my effects? Do I just leave it on clean like my solidstate? But if a valve distorts buy being overdriven wouldn't that mean the volume is up relatively loud?

If someone could briefly describe how it works and what works with what it would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

... this is why we need a seperate forum!

[spootmonkey]

Distortion/overdrive through a solid-state amp or pedal is just using transistors to mimic the sound you get naturally through a valve/tube. You can run a valve amp clean and get distortion from a pedal, or you can use the amp's own distorting capability, or you can combine the two. You'll also find the top-end overdrive and distortion pedals use valves.

Yes, valve amps sound best when pushed to the limit, but the tone you get is a combination of volume and gain. The amps will have multiple valves arrayed in separate stages too, so you can ramp up the distortion in the pre-amp valves while controlling the master volume with the power-amp valves.

The difference between 'overdrive' and 'distortion' in a pedal is generally just the particular tone said pedal is designed to create, just like you'll have different channels (eg. clean/crunch/lead) on an amp.

[technophiliac]

i dont get it.. why would there be a differnce between connecting a pedal to a tube amp and a normal one...

i thought u connected it between the guitar and the amp, and the signal gets modulated in between so it has nothing to do with the amplifier

[-Rift-]

So using the same distortion pedal on a tube amp will produce a completely different sound? If your adding distortion to already distorted amps then can you use multiple distortion pedals to create different sounds (that don't sound like absolute crap)?

[spootmonkey]

Originally Posted by -Rift-

So using the same distortion pedal on a tube amp will produce a completely different sound?

Different, yes. Completely different, no. It'll be less than the difference between the clean tones from the two amps.

Originally Posted by -Rift-

If your adding distortion to already distorted amps then can you use multiple distortion pedals to create different sounds (that don't sound like absolute crap)?

Of course. It took a bit of tweaking to make them play nice, but I run a distortion and an OD wah (amongst other things) before my Marshall and occasionally push all three.

[-Rift-]

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

Different, yes. Completely different, no. It'll be less than the difference between the clean tones from the two amps.
Of course. It took a bit of tweaking to make them play nice, but I run a distortion and an OD wah (amongst other things) before my Marshall and occasionally push all three.

Cool, I've got a Fender FM65R amp at the moment (SS) and a big Korg FX board in between and while I love the effects board and there is nothing actually wrong with it I'm thinking of getting simpler and having a just a few stomp boxes, partly because they are supposed to be better but mainly because I would much prefer to keep the effects side as simple as possible (and also because I just want to buy something new ). Thing is I've heard some valve amps and really like the sound but I can't afford one right now so I'm sort of upgrading slowly. Speaking of which, a few people have told me it would be a lot better to get individual effects rather than just having my effects board (which is a AX1500G)... whats the pro's and con's of doing that?

Cheers

[spootmonkey]

A multi-effects unit gives you a wider range of tones in a smaller and cheaper package, at the expense of being able to dial in exactly the sound you want. I'm very much an individual pedal kind of person, but only because I've built up a small collection of awesome analogue boxes. Cheap stompboxes will be no better than what you can milk from a half decent multi-effects unit, and for the average "metalzone & digi-delay guitarist" they're more than enough.

What sort of effects do you use?

[-Rift-]

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

A multi-effects unit gives you a wider range of tones in a smaller and cheaper package, at the expense of being able to dial in exactly the sound you want. I'm very much an individual pedal kind of person, but only because I've built up a small collection of awesome analogue boxes. Cheap stompboxes will be no better than what you can milk from a half decent multi-effects unit, and for the average "metalzone & digi-delay guitarist" they're more than enough.

What sort of effects do you use?

I generally use the pre-set effects in the board because I find there are simply millions of different settings and things you can do which is fun to waste an afternoon with but I sort of like to keep it simple but I would like something vaugly original. I generally use pretty chunky distortion with a bit of echo added. I had a play with those demo BOSS boards the other day and using just a few of the pedals I got a sound that I liked and could easily change which is why I was thinking of going the few stomp boxes route maybe a tube screamer, a chorus, a metal over drive maybe and I would like a good wah pedal. Something like a Zakk Wylde sort of sound. I guess at the end of the day I really need a bigger amp but I'm doing the buildup slowly so some good peals now will hopefully last the distance.

[shredder]

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

A multi-effects unit gives you a wider range of tones in a smaller and cheaper package, at the expense of being able to dial in exactly the sound you want. I'm very much an individual pedal kind of person, but only because I've built up a small collection of awesome analogue boxes. Cheap stompboxes will be no better than what you can milk from a half decent multi-effects unit, and for the average "metalzone & digi-delay guitarist" they're more than enough.

In reality a Boss MT-2 or DD-5 has the exact same type of advantages over a multi as your elite analogue pedals have over a multi - greater tweakability of parameters and chain position, arguably better sound for that specific purpose, much easier 'hands-on' use, better build quality, etc. But for a beginner guitarist who has little experience (with playing, and with gear), your standard multi is probably going to be more than adequate especially in terms of bang-for-buck.

As you are finding -Rift- multi's can be a pain to use after awhile and you find yourself wishing that you didn't have to spend so much time mucking around with it and having to bend down and push all these buttons whenever you want to change something. I value the ability to just intuitively turn a few knobs when wanting to change parameters, and keeping it simple, so all I use most of the time is a distortion stompbox and a switchless wah pedal. I don't play a lot of clean on the electric so I don't bother with modulation stuff (chorus/delay/etc) at the moment.

[spootmonkey]

Agreed on toughness and tweakability, but I'd argue that it's much easier (as opposed to nigh-on impossible) to milk MT/DD sounds out of one of the Boss GTs than it is to get it to sound like an oscillating analogue delay. If you're a tweaker pedals are definitely where it's at, but I'd hope you do get something a bit more interesting to play with than a DD-5.

[Thraxeh]

theres two differnt types of valve amp overdrive, theres a preamp overdrive, which is available at most volume's, and then theres power amp overdrive, which is only available at very high volumes. The Overdrive you get from the power amp tubes sounds amazing.

[shredder]

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

Agreed on toughness and tweakability, but I'd argue that it's much easier (as opposed to nigh-on impossible) to milk MT/DD sounds out of one of the Boss GTs than it is to get it to sound like an oscillating analogue delay.

No argument there, if you want specialised vintage or obscure sounds then a middle-of-the-road multi isn't going to give them to you.

Originally Posted by ^

If you're a tweaker pedals are definitely where it's at, but I'd hope you do get something a bit more interesting to play with than a DD-5.

Heheh you probably wouldn't understand, but it makes little difference to me whether I'm playing through a DD5 or Eric Johnsons personally rewired vintage analogue echo taken directly from Jimi Hendrix's grave. I appreciate that effects like yours have their uses and fans but personally my primary interests lie in other aspects of guitar playing. And no, not just playing fast!

But you should record some of your pedals sometime so us plebes can hear the amazing sounds we're missing out on (as played by a modern ordinary guitarist).

[spootmonkey]

Well, we finally nailed down a date for our demo and will be recording a gig in November too, just a little patience and it's yours!

[shredder]

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

Well, we finally nailed down a date for our demo and will be recording a gig in November too, just a little patience and it's yours!

Excellent, looking forward to it. You better not disappoint me with any of that fast-playing mumbo jumbo.