Good Soundcard to go to Stereo Monitors

McMatt · 13th February 2008, 11:03 AM

So I've got a bit of a dilema...

Trying to sort out a nice home recording setup for mate.

Gonna build a new PC & probably use a MOTU 8pre input from the tracks. If not the MOTU then something similar anyways (presonus firestudio etc)...

My question is: what's a good soundcard for playing the stereo mix of the recorded tracks? Won't be used for any gaming, nor will anything be mixed in 5.1 so it'd be wasted. Would rather get a quality 2 channel card that's made for this specific purpose.

The other thing I thought is do we even need a soundcard? I'm half thinking that it may be possible to re-route the stereo output of the pc back into the 8pre (via firewire) then use it's line outs for monitoring. Although this might be a no go if the preamp levels can't be adjusted right / turned off for those channels.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Edstructicon · 13th February 2008, 12:23 PM

I haven't seen that 8pre irl, but it looks like you could hook it straight into an amp via optical, but that would miss the pc...

I reckon get a usb dac/soundcard or go for the M-Audio Delta 1010 (10 in, 10 out) theres an LT version without the big breakout box too for like 1/3 of the price.

I have a friend who uses that delta1010 for recording metal/rock band, its pretty sweet.

GarethB · 13th February 2008, 12:32 PM

I've had a quick look at the online specs of the MOTU Pre8 and Presonus Firestudio. Both have the ability to connect a set of stero monitors directly to the units (or send a stero mix to an amp that's driving a set of monitors)and both seem to have reasonaly sophisticated mix send capabilities (the ability to send different mixes of the same audio to different outputs at the same time).

If your friend is in a situation where they are recording one track at a time and want to hear the completed tracks (or only some tracks) back from a PC while they record the next track, both units should be able to handle that with ease, but I'm only looking at what's on the web sites, I haven't touched either of those units myself. I have the slightly older version of the Presonus FP10 (mine is called the Firepod) which is much more basic and limited than the Firestudio.

Your friend shouldn't need a seperate high resolution sound card just for a set of monitors with either of these two units. I can't say exactly what other units would be in the same league as these two.

One noticable difference I can see between the Pre8 and the Firestudio is that phantom power can be turned on/off for each seperate XLR input of the Pre8. The Firestudio has it's XLR inputs set in two groups of four and phantom power can only be turned on/off for each group. If your friend wants to use 2 powered XLR channels and 6 unpowered XLR channels at the same time, the Firestudio won't do that, but the Pre8 will. One way to get around that limitation on the Firestudio is to use TRS connections for the inputs that should be unpowered (the input sockets are dual purpose XLR/TRS sockets but only supply phantom power to an XLR connection).

I can say the FP10/Firepod doesn't have the same level of flexability for sending different mixes to different outputs at the same time like the Pre8 and Firestudio can. The FP10 also has the same phantom power setup as the Firestudio, power is on or off for all XLR inputs in the same group of four and cannot be set seperately for each individual XLR input.

McMatt · 13th February 2008, 2:51 PM

Thanks guys.

Ya, I think the 8pre is looking pretty good at this stage and from what I've read it's pres are a bit better and the AD conversion is a bit better than the firestudio.

The thing is, at this stage there's no plan to use the ADAT ports, just cause there's nothing to plug them in to on the other end... To use them would require some kind of PCI card anyway I think which might mean a sound card will be easier anyway.

I'm confused about whether I'd actually be able to use one of it's firewire ports for output of the tracks being recorded and another for input of tracks for playback. And then there's the issue of having output and input running at the same time... That's pretty important for the headphone mix of whoever's recording at the time. I guess that's what the cuemix software is for.

The other option for this whole setup is to get a more conventional desk... Maybe 16 channel with AUX lines and whatever to make headphone mixes and playback easier. Would need to find a decent one with ok AD conversion at a reasonable price though...

This is all very confusing

GarethB · 13th February 2008, 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMatt

Thanks guys.

I'm confused about whether I'd actually be able to use one of it's firewire ports for output of the tracks being recorded and another for input of tracks for playback. And then there's the issue of having output and input running at the same time...

To the best of my knowledge, the second firewire port is there to "daisychain" another unit of the same type, not to set up two seperate one way connections between one unit and a PC. It might be possible to do that, but to the best of my knowledge, that's not how it's normally done.

Let's say you want 16 input channels, so you get two Pre8's or two Firestudios (or whatever other audio interface you like that has firewire). Unit 1 connects to the PC via firewire port 1 on the unit. Unit 2 plugs into unit 1 through firewire port 2 on unit 1. If it's possible to add a third unit, unit 3 would connect to unit 2 using firewire port 2 on unit 2, etc. I don't know exactly how many units you can link up like this, it will probably be bandwith limited, depending on whether both the PC and audio units have firewire-400 (400 mbit/sec) or firewire-800 (800 mbit/sec).

McMatt · 14th February 2008, 4:39 PM

Cheers for the help gareth!

I didn't really understand software routing, but it looks like one firewire cable is used and the software can route the tracks anywhere. So I can just use the line outs on the 8pre for minitors. Easy! (i hope...)

GarethB · 15th February 2008, 5:00 PM

As far as mix routing goes, in simple terms the recording software on the PC will send the full audio mix to the audio unit. A dedicated processor in the audio unit will then generate seperate mixes from the same audio data and route the different mixes to the different outputs it has. Depending on the sophistication of the unit, there may be limits to how many different mixes it can handle at the same time and how many different outputs it can send a seperate mix to.

A common use of that feature is for a live band that uses stage monitors (the ones on the floor that face the musicians) so they can hear the other instruments in the band while they're performing, but not everyone in the band may want to hear everything, so each musician can choose which instruments they want to hear through their own monitor and the unit can be set to cut the stuff each musician doesn't want to hear from the output going to their monitor.

A live band could replace a mixing desk with one or two of these interfaces and a laptop with the control software for the interfaces (not including effects processors and amps to drive the PA if they're not using a house PA system). With a decent sized disk in the laptop they could record themselves at the same time.

13th February 2008, 11:03 AM	#1
McMatt Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melb Posts: 344	Good Soundcard to go to Stereo Monitors So I've got a bit of a dilema... Trying to sort out a nice home recording setup for mate. Gonna build a new PC & probably use a MOTU 8pre input from the tracks. If not the MOTU then something similar anyways (presonus firestudio etc)... My question is: what's a good soundcard for playing the stereo mix of the recorded tracks? Won't be used for any gaming, nor will anything be mixed in 5.1 so it'd be wasted. Would rather get a quality 2 channel card that's made for this specific purpose. The other thing I thought is do we even need a soundcard? I'm half thinking that it may be possible to re-route the stereo output of the pc back into the 8pre (via firewire) then use it's line outs for monitoring. Although this might be a no go if the preamp levels can't be adjusted right / turned off for those channels. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

13th February 2008, 12:23 PM	#2
Edstructicon Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newcastle Posts: 1,661	I haven't seen that 8pre irl, but it looks like you could hook it straight into an amp via optical, but that would miss the pc... I reckon get a usb dac/soundcard or go for the M-Audio Delta 1010 (10 in, 10 out) theres an LT version without the big breakout box too for like 1/3 of the price. I have a friend who uses that delta1010 for recording metal/rock band, its pretty sweet. __________________ We are here to make coffee metal. We will make everything metal. Blacker than the blackest black, times infinity.

13th February 2008, 12:32 PM	#3
GarethB Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,498	I've had a quick look at the online specs of the MOTU Pre8 and Presonus Firestudio. Both have the ability to connect a set of stero monitors directly to the units (or send a stero mix to an amp that's driving a set of monitors)and both seem to have reasonaly sophisticated mix send capabilities (the ability to send different mixes of the same audio to different outputs at the same time). If your friend is in a situation where they are recording one track at a time and want to hear the completed tracks (or only some tracks) back from a PC while they record the next track, both units should be able to handle that with ease, but I'm only looking at what's on the web sites, I haven't touched either of those units myself. I have the slightly older version of the Presonus FP10 (mine is called the Firepod) which is much more basic and limited than the Firestudio. Your friend shouldn't need a seperate high resolution sound card just for a set of monitors with either of these two units. I can't say exactly what other units would be in the same league as these two. One noticable difference I can see between the Pre8 and the Firestudio is that phantom power can be turned on/off for each seperate XLR input of the Pre8. The Firestudio has it's XLR inputs set in two groups of four and phantom power can only be turned on/off for each group. If your friend wants to use 2 powered XLR channels and 6 unpowered XLR channels at the same time, the Firestudio won't do that, but the Pre8 will. One way to get around that limitation on the Firestudio is to use TRS connections for the inputs that should be unpowered (the input sockets are dual purpose XLR/TRS sockets but only supply phantom power to an XLR connection). I can say the FP10/Firepod doesn't have the same level of flexability for sending different mixes to different outputs at the same time like the Pre8 and Firestudio can. The FP10 also has the same phantom power setup as the Firestudio, power is on or off for all XLR inputs in the same group of four and cannot be set seperately for each individual XLR input.

13th February 2008, 2:51 PM	#4
McMatt Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melb Posts: 344	Thanks guys. Ya, I think the 8pre is looking pretty good at this stage and from what I've read it's pres are a bit better and the AD conversion is a bit better than the firestudio. The thing is, at this stage there's no plan to use the ADAT ports, just cause there's nothing to plug them in to on the other end... To use them would require some kind of PCI card anyway I think which might mean a sound card will be easier anyway. I'm confused about whether I'd actually be able to use one of it's firewire ports for output of the tracks being recorded and another for input of tracks for playback. And then there's the issue of having output and input running at the same time... That's pretty important for the headphone mix of whoever's recording at the time. I guess that's what the cuemix software is for. The other option for this whole setup is to get a more conventional desk... Maybe 16 channel with AUX lines and whatever to make headphone mixes and playback easier. Would need to find a decent one with ok AD conversion at a reasonable price though... This is all very confusing

14th February 2008, 4:39 PM	#6
McMatt Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melb Posts: 344	Cheers for the help gareth! I didn't really understand software routing, but it looks like one firewire cable is used and the software can route the tracks anywhere. So I can just use the line outs on the 8pre for minitors. Easy! (i hope...)

15th February 2008, 5:00 PM	#7
GarethB Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,498	As far as mix routing goes, in simple terms the recording software on the PC will send the full audio mix to the audio unit. A dedicated processor in the audio unit will then generate seperate mixes from the same audio data and route the different mixes to the different outputs it has. Depending on the sophistication of the unit, there may be limits to how many different mixes it can handle at the same time and how many different outputs it can send a seperate mix to. A common use of that feature is for a live band that uses stage monitors (the ones on the floor that face the musicians) so they can hear the other instruments in the band while they're performing, but not everyone in the band may want to hear everything, so each musician can choose which instruments they want to hear through their own monitor and the unit can be set to cut the stuff each musician doesn't want to hear from the output going to their monitor. A live band could replace a mixing desk with one or two of these interfaces and a laptop with the control software for the interfaces (not including effects processors and amps to drive the PA if they're not using a house PA system). With a decent sized disk in the laptop they could record themselves at the same time.