JARON's new secret toy :D

l00b3r · 2nd July 2003, 5:21 PM

after conversing with Jaron the other night for about 10 minutes, he gave me the pleasure of showing me his new toy....

The Unit as Pictured above ^^ is used to simulate the CPU Die of an AMD Cpu, and allow cooling methods to be tested, the UNIT was not cheap and im unsure on the name, well i have an idea, but im not gunna say...

The insides are not being shown due to the pure design and lose of design JARON could face.

Cant wait to see this baby in action

-Matt

Redback · 2nd July 2003, 5:23 PM

booring

its not hard to make a resistor put out a constant heat load....

l00b3r · 2nd July 2003, 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Redback
booring

its not hard to make a resistor put out a constant heat load....

Im not going to comment, as im unsure how it works, but the pure cost of this unit makes it alot more then a resistor... I beleive he even had an AMD cpu tested to test its exact power output etc...

-Matt

Mjollnir · 2nd July 2003, 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Redback
booring

its not hard to make a resistor put out a constant heat load....

yeah, it is also not hard to build a nuclear bomb, all u need is some weapons grade uranium....

Nice Work Jaron, any simulation been done on it so far?

rkfwombat · 2nd July 2003, 5:31 PM

...and its secret because you are showing us how?

Dan has been using die simulators for years as have many others. :/

ah shit...I'm not sure whether i was supposed to tell u that :P

l00b3r · 2nd July 2003, 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mjollnir
yeah, it is also not hard to build a nuclear bomb, all u need is some weapons grade uranium....

Nice Work Jaron, any simulation been done on it so far?

Im guessing so by the look of the HSF on there...

-Matt

BelowZero · 2nd July 2003, 7:09 PM

I am afraid all others would pale in comparison in both flexibilty of producing heat load and also the accuracy of how it was done. Just cause it is a simulator doesn't mean it's the same as all the others. Let me warn you we have been using simulators for years for us to test and this one creams them all. Not only is it extremely accurate within 0.1C degrees it has a data logger built in that also extremely accurate. Another feature is how the heat is produced and distributed through to exactly match the size and output and directional flow of any AMD or Intel processor.

The overall simulator has cost many thousands of dollars and I have yet to see any net site use that kind of budget to produce a simulator. Another thing you might want to keep in mind. This is certified by the Engineers Society of Australia. I haven't seen any others certified by any engineering society in the world yet. What does that mean? It means it would stand up to all scrutiny and laboratory certification tests.

If you know anything about resisitors also you will know it is not as acuurate as you think because you need it to travel the heat in a particular way, shape and direction as to exactly match that of , say, an AMD core. Heat is actually produced unbalanced across the core. This actually matches the unbalanced nature of the core thus giving more accuracy than anything produced from a web site to date.

So before you say 'everybody has been doing this before', think twice as you will be wrong. The biggest thing too is your not seeing what's in the box. That's the secret.

And 2 more things:

Dan's is a joke compared to this and so is Atomics.

Jaron are qualfified engineers with many years commercial experience and not journalists with no or little engineering qualifications.

Below Zero

Bravo · 2nd July 2003, 7:19 PM

I would not call Dan's a joke. It provides an accurate result when comparing heatsinks on the same simulator time and time again. Dan never said it was used to compare CPU temperatures, but to simulate heatloads. Therein lies the difference.

BelowZero · 2nd July 2003, 7:36 PM

Hate to say but you are wrong, flow, direction , balance are very much the difference between just a heat load. Heat load is not all it is about Bravo.

Also your buying these types of heatsinks for a CPU so the more a simulator reflects the characteristics of the CPU then the better, more accurate results you will achieve. There lies the difference.

I can also tell you from our own experience you can get wildly different results from different simulators producing the same heat load from the same heatsink. Plus this can also vary across the different heatsinks being tested across different simulators ie. one heatsink on one simulator was better than another, on a different simulator you can achieve the reverse, I know it has happened to me many a time.

Another observation we have made is on some simulators (even our own) the heatsink may

1. Perform great on the simulator and poor on the processor.
2. Perform poor on the simulator but great on the processor.

The simulator is producing the same heat load but it is not accurately reflecting the heat characteristics of the CPU.

The thing I like about the Jaron simulator is I have complete confidence in the results, absolutely and relatively across heatsinks without needing to compare results with other simulators.

Also you may think Dan's is great but I would have to say we in the industry question his results all the time, some seem close to the mark, others just seem way off. Why, because all it does is produce a heat load in an unmanaged and unbalanced flow with mulitdirection multiple entry points, not the heat characteristics of a CPU.

Below Zero

l00b3r · 2nd July 2003, 7:42 PM

BelowZero

I have been speaking to someone about the loads in this unit and they are quiet impressive, i will be comming to see your stall on the 13th

One thing i must say that this unit is really helpful

-Matt

Cathar · 2nd July 2003, 7:51 PM

So will the testbed be available for use by independent reviewers?

All well and good that it might be an engineering certified testbed, but if it's used by someone with a vested interest, then really it's only good for their private testing.

arasta · 2nd July 2003, 7:53 PM

hehehe glad to see this thing at last ... funny thing that, i sure i can recognise a bit there :P probably one of the cheapest parts in the whole thing i imagine heh

nicely done

looking forward to see how results go

Cheers

l00b3r · 2nd July 2003, 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar
So will the testbed be available for use by independent reviewers?

All well and good that it might be an engineering certified testbed, but if it's used by someone with a vested interest, then really it's only good for their private testing.

Incorrect, if a unit worth millions of money is sitting on one guys table he aint just gunna lend it to people, why not send blocks and fans to him to test, obviously he can get the things very stable and nice with a controlled environment

-Matt

l00b3r · 2nd July 2003, 8:13 PM

Cathar, if you want blocks tested on this unit you should offer to pay for the independent RPEQ engineer to witness test each block. No doubt that JARON would want him to sign a confidentiality agreement before looking inside the unit.

-Matt

Memphis · 2nd July 2003, 8:35 PM

Jesus H Christ, sounds like a 'who's got the biggest and extremest cooled penis in here'!!!

OK - big, blue, shiney and costly. The purpose???

Does it make a good cafe late?

2nd July 2003, 5:21 PM	#1
l00b3r (Banned or Deleted) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Somewhere Urban..... Bris Posts: 8,358	JARON's new secret toy :D after conversing with Jaron the other night for about 10 minutes, he gave me the pleasure of showing me his new toy.... The Unit as Pictured above ^^ is used to simulate the CPU Die of an AMD Cpu, and allow cooling methods to be tested, the UNIT was not cheap and im unsure on the name, well i have an idea, but im not gunna say... The insides are not being shown due to the pure design and lose of design JARON could face. Cant wait to see this baby in action -Matt

2nd July 2003, 5:23 PM	#2
Redback Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Victoria Posts: 254	booring its not hard to make a resistor put out a constant heat load.... __________________ You never know how miserable you are untill you experience how happy you can be.

2nd July 2003, 5:31 PM	#5
rkfwombat Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 589	...and its secret because you are showing us how? Dan has been using die simulators for years as have many others. :/ ah shit...I'm not sure whether i was supposed to tell u that :P Last edited by rkfwombat; 2nd July 2003 at 5:31 PM.

2nd July 2003, 7:09 PM	#7
BelowZero Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 137	They would all pale in comaprison I am afraid all others would pale in comparison in both flexibilty of producing heat load and also the accuracy of how it was done. Just cause it is a simulator doesn't mean it's the same as all the others. Let me warn you we have been using simulators for years for us to test and this one creams them all. Not only is it extremely accurate within 0.1C degrees it has a data logger built in that also extremely accurate. Another feature is how the heat is produced and distributed through to exactly match the size and output and directional flow of any AMD or Intel processor. The overall simulator has cost many thousands of dollars and I have yet to see any net site use that kind of budget to produce a simulator. Another thing you might want to keep in mind. This is certified by the Engineers Society of Australia. I haven't seen any others certified by any engineering society in the world yet. What does that mean? It means it would stand up to all scrutiny and laboratory certification tests. If you know anything about resisitors also you will know it is not as acuurate as you think because you need it to travel the heat in a particular way, shape and direction as to exactly match that of , say, an AMD core. Heat is actually produced unbalanced across the core. This actually matches the unbalanced nature of the core thus giving more accuracy than anything produced from a web site to date. So before you say 'everybody has been doing this before', think twice as you will be wrong. The biggest thing too is your not seeing what's in the box. That's the secret. And 2 more things: Dan's is a joke compared to this and so is Atomics. Jaron are qualfified engineers with many years commercial experience and not journalists with no or little engineering qualifications. Below Zero __________________ www.below-0.net Below Zero for the best coolers in OZ Last edited by BelowZero; 2nd July 2003 at 7:19 PM.

2nd July 2003, 7:36 PM	#9
BelowZero Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 137	Sorry but your wrong again Hate to say but you are wrong, flow, direction , balance are very much the difference between just a heat load. Heat load is not all it is about Bravo. Also your buying these types of heatsinks for a CPU so the more a simulator reflects the characteristics of the CPU then the better, more accurate results you will achieve. There lies the difference. I can also tell you from our own experience you can get wildly different results from different simulators producing the same heat load from the same heatsink. Plus this can also vary across the different heatsinks being tested across different simulators ie. one heatsink on one simulator was better than another, on a different simulator you can achieve the reverse, I know it has happened to me many a time. Another observation we have made is on some simulators (even our own) the heatsink may 1. Perform great on the simulator and poor on the processor. 2. Perform poor on the simulator but great on the processor. The simulator is producing the same heat load but it is not accurately reflecting the heat characteristics of the CPU. The thing I like about the Jaron simulator is I have complete confidence in the results, absolutely and relatively across heatsinks without needing to compare results with other simulators. Also you may think Dan's is great but I would have to say we in the industry question his results all the time, some seem close to the mark, others just seem way off. Why, because all it does is produce a heat load in an unmanaged and unbalanced flow with mulitdirection multiple entry points, not the heat characteristics of a CPU. Below Zero __________________ www.below-0.net Below Zero for the best coolers in OZ Last edited by BelowZero; 2nd July 2003 at 7:44 PM.

2nd July 2003, 7:19 PM	#8
Bravo Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 10,057	I would not call Dan's a joke. It provides an accurate result when comparing heatsinks on the same simulator time and time again. Dan never said it was used to compare CPU temperatures, but to simulate heatloads. Therein lies the difference.

2nd July 2003, 7:42 PM	#10
l00b3r (Banned or Deleted) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Somewhere Urban..... Bris Posts: 8,358	BelowZero I have been speaking to someone about the loads in this unit and they are quiet impressive, i will be comming to see your stall on the 13th One thing i must say that this unit is really helpful -Matt

2nd July 2003, 7:51 PM	#11
Cathar Storm Father Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,507	So will the testbed be available for use by independent reviewers? All well and good that it might be an engineering certified testbed, but if it's used by someone with a vested interest, then really it's only good for their private testing. __________________ Motherboard / CPU / Memory: Asus P5WDG2 WS Pro / Conroe E6600 / 2 x 1GB Patriot PDC22G8000+XBLK Cooling: Little River Storm/G7 CPU WaterBlock / Iwaki RD-30 Pump / Huge 24x30cm single-pass Radiator Media: 320GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 / Samsung SH-S182M DVD Writer Video Card: 1 x 512MB ATI Radeon X1950XTX Crossfire Case / Power: Antec Tower Case / Silverstone ST65ZF PSU (fan modded) Peripherals: BenQ FP937S+ 19" 8ms LCD Monitor

2nd July 2003, 7:53 PM	#12
arasta Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 1,043	hehehe glad to see this thing at last ... funny thing that, i sure i can recognise a bit there :P probably one of the cheapest parts in the whole thing i imagine heh nicely done looking forward to see how results go Cheers __________________ .:Work in Progress:. "Three things are certain: Death, taxes and lost data. Guess which has occurred."

2nd July 2003, 8:13 PM	#14
l00b3r (Banned or Deleted) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Somewhere Urban..... Bris Posts: 8,358	Cathar, if you want blocks tested on this unit you should offer to pay for the independent RPEQ engineer to witness test each block. No doubt that JARON would want him to sign a confidentiality agreement before looking inside the unit. -Matt

2nd July 2003, 8:35 PM	#15
Memphis Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 467	Jesus H Christ, sounds like a 'who's got the biggest and extremest cooled penis in here'!!! OK - big, blue, shiney and costly. The purpose??? Does it make a good cafe late? __________________ My Mini Beast Email me: atrewin@hotmail.com