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Old 10th May 2016, 2:15 PM   #15001
TehCamel
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Stupid question - tried a crossover cable?
not a stupid question, but answer is no, primarily because I don't have one, but also because no other ntu has ever needed one..
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:18 PM   #15002
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Didn't we get Luke banned from here?
if you look at the posts, its not me that shows bad behaviour. im quite friendly and well spirited. and always making interesting discussion. so, basically the thread is pro-linux and if anything goes against the flow its the end of the world. tribal behaviour.
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:20 PM   #15003
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if you look at the posts, its not me that shows bad behaviour. im quite friendly and well spirited. and always interesting discussion. so, basically the thread is pro-linux and if anything goes against the flow its the end of the world. tribal behaviour.
Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean its bad.

Linux is by far the biggest thing to happen to computing since the original PC - and the Internet, and indeed many other things, wouldn't be where it is without it.

You probably don't understand what CERN is doing either - that doesn't mean its useless. It just means you don't understand it.
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:20 PM   #15004
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and always making interesting discussion.
Let's agree to disagree on that, shall we?
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:20 PM   #15005
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Let's agree to disagree on that, shall we?
No, he can get out.
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:26 PM   #15006
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if you look at the posts, its not me that shows bad behaviour. im quite friendly and well spirited. and always making interesting discussion. so, basically the thread is pro-linux and if anything goes against the flow its the end of the world. tribal behaviour.

You realise this is a rant thread, not a Microsoft only thread? If you want to rant about Linux go ahead, but you might want to educate yourself on the topic\issue otherwise you come across looking like an uneducated fool
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:32 PM   #15007
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its not controversial to say linux is hard. its been the bug bear since other OS took the end user market.

hard is not good when you dont care about the OS, you just want to do your work. ie. programming state of the art software. the OS gets in the way and makes your life hard. so you say f this, and go back to an environment that doesnt trip you up. basically everything can be done on either operating system. its not an issue of capability.

i argue that it is needlessly hard. a linux user doesnt care if its hard because they invested their life learning it. and they have a vested interest to keep it hard because it limits competition. whenever there is money there is bias.

now remember you brought up linux again not me. so dont get upset. or get upset. its the rant thread
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:40 PM   #15008
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not a stupid question, but answer is no, primarily because I don't have one, but also because no other ntu has ever needed one..
No idea - so I looked it up. Trust the Australian goverment to screw things up. Is this the clusterfuck of a solution you get in Australia? https://simonhackett.files.wordpress...n-complete.jpg

Because in Japan it's just ethernet handoff (here's the guts of three models): https://ana.coppo.la/content/images/...e-pon-onu3.jpg

Optionally there are standard units which include a router, ATA, wireless and TV: http://ogu-san.up.n.seesaa.net/ogu-s...e/OCN.jpg?d=a2

At home I have a basic ONU/ONT/NTU with a coax connector for TV, and use my own router.
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:42 PM   #15009
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its not controversial to say linux is hard. its been the bug bear since other OS took the end user market.

hard is not good when you dont care about the OS, you just want to do your work. ie. programming state of the art software. the OS gets in the way and makes your life hard. so you say f this, and go back to an environment that doesnt trip you up. basically everything can be done on either operating system. its not an issue of capability.

i argue that it is needlessly hard. a linux user doesnt care if its hard because they invested their life learning it. and they have a vested interest to keep it hard because it limits competition. whenever there is money there is bias.

now remember you brought up linux again not me. so dont get upset. or get upset. its the rant thread
Enduring the troll.

Its pretty much universally accepted that Linux has better throughput than Windows. Throughput is real $ - not theoretical.

Linux at this point (DSC and PS5 are still too green at this point) is also easier to manage farms at scale. So in a web-scale world - throwing a stone and finding a Linux admin for $100k who can build/manage/document a puppet/chef/saltstack environment to scale out your platform as required is far better than throwing 2-3 hours per host (virtual or physical) of a $60k Windows admin who can press Next on your piece of shit buggy installer (that's probably not an MSI anyway).

Again - if in 2016 you don't understand what you're doing in Linux, that's your fault and no-one elses.

Millions of people understand it and are quite good at it. Companies who literally don't have a product to sell make money on Linux (simply selling support and package maintenance).

The second you come to understand this - people will probably stop giving you quite as much shit as your rightedly deserve.

And for the record - I'm predominantly a Windows admin by trade. But even then, I think you'd be a bloody nuisance to support - because the stupid bullshit ideas you come up with make me cringe from a supportability and repeatability point of view every single thread you make.
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:44 PM   #15010
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its not controversial to say linux is hard. its been the bug bear since other OS took the end user market.
And if you put a Linux user at a PowerShell prompt, he or she will struggle just as much as you seem to at the Bash prompt. You seem to think that years of practice doing things in Windows (regardless of any discussion about a "right" way) should automatically mean you know how to do similar things in the Linux world.

But that's roughly similar to saying "Well hey, I know how to drive a road train, so my knowledge should translate directly to flying a 727" - or the reverse. And I'd HOPE you don't think that!

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i argue that it is needlessly hard. a linux user doesnt care if its hard because they invested their life learning it. and they have a vested interest to keep it hard because it limits competition. whenever there is money there is bias.
And by exactly the same reasoning, Windows is needlessly hard because PowerShell and Settings is replacing Control Panel and AD Management is replacing AD Users and Computers, and PowerShell DSC is replacing mindless clicking of wizards. And people have a vested interest to keep it hard because it limits competition. whenever[sic] there is money there is bias.

See how that works?

Where is dialup IP configuration on Mac OSX Lion? How do you configure SLIP in Trumpet Winsock? Where are dialup settings on Ubuntu 14.04? These are roughly equivalent questions, for varying scenarios. The answers are stonkingly different.

If you can properly learn one OS and its toolset end to end, you can learn others - part of the trick is mapping the OS-specific stuff into your mental model. If you have no working model of anything, and can only point and click, and hunt things in the GUI, you're going to be out of a skilled job, very very soon.
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:47 PM   #15011
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its not controversial to say linux is hard.
"Hard" is relative. I find maintaining car engines hard, and Linux easy. I know many mechanics who would say the complete reverse.

I know lots of people who find Windows hard, and for them, it is. You can't make absolute statements based on such subjective terms.

You're clearly an all-Windows guy. Linux is not Windows (the subtle hint is there in the fact that they have completely different names). If you try to treat Linux like Windows, you'll stumble and fall. Exactly the same is true in reverse - try to treat Windows like Linux, and you'll also stumble and fall. You may be too young to remember, but I was around when Windows first got introduced to the business market. And when it did, there were plenty of oldschool UNIX guys who stumbled and fell, because they couldn't use Windows in the same way they'd been using UNIX for decades. They too liked to make absolute statements about Windows' projected failure. Clearly they were wrong. And clearly anyone who tries to predict Linux's failure is also wrong, give it's utter domination of Internet and cloud computing.

And with all of that said, everything you argue post that quoted point is moot, as the entire premise your argument is based on is flawed.

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Its pretty much universally accepted that Linux has better throughput than Windows. Throughput is real $ - not theoretical.
Indeed. As someone who's very industry depends on getting the most CPU, disk and network throughput out of hardware as possible, Linux stands head and shoulders above the rest.

We test and re-test on an annual basis. If we want to stay competitive, we need Linux in our business. That's not written in stone, and it could certainly change as the years roll on. For the last 20 years though, it's been reaffirmed by many independent companies that it's still true.

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Old 10th May 2016, 2:51 PM   #15012
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Where is dialup IP configuration on Mac OSX Lion? How do you configure SLIP in Trumpet Winsock? Where are dialup settings on Ubuntu 14.04?
Uh, let me google that real fast...

What's worse is that we are seeing big changes recently in all of these OS which result in new best practices, new ways of doing things, and the old ways are being deprecated. Pisses me off how many so called network people I talk to who cannot even describe the basic concepts of IPv6 or basic security, or "Windows admins" who cannot even give 3 things that must be done in a new environment to provide basic security hardening, never mind a full comprehensive list.

Edit: Come full circle and complaining about the same thing as the original post. Ugh.
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:51 PM   #15013
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What are the odds this is a misconfiguration on both my laptop and the firewall, or a dodgy cable (despite using 3, different, brand new, cables) and not an issue with the NTU?
Unlikely to be the cable - it's still using the same 4 pins for 10 or 100 and for half or full duplex.
Before looking like a tool, I'd try a different cable and a different PC again, just to be sure.

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Stupid question - tried a crossover cable?
If it got link, it doesn't need one. If one fixes it, the device is broken.

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If you want to rant about Linux go ahead, but you might want to educate yourself on the topic\issue otherwise you come across looking like an uneducated fool
Yep - just like when I want to rant about Windows Server... I try very hard to make sure I'm not just being an idiot first. And sometimes I still fail

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its not controversial to say linux is hard.
Windows is hard in exactly the same ways. MacOSX is hard too.
Driving a car is hard. Flying a plane is hard. Flying a helicopter is fucking hard. But people learn to do it, and then it seems simple.
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Old 10th May 2016, 2:52 PM   #15014
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And with all of that said, everything you argue post that quoted point is moot, as the entire premise your argument is based on is flawed.
Aside: Upvoteinfinityinfinityinfinityinfinity for spelling AND using moot correctly.

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What's worse is that we are seeing big changes recently in all of these OS which result in new best practices, new ways of doing things, and the old ways are being deprecated.
Exactly. The world is going to change. IT is an industry in its infancy, and despite not having lived it, I would swear 90% of these arguments parallel arguments from the beginning of the industrial age.

"Wah this new steam engine design is too hard", "Why do we have to use diesel", "This new 4 stroke engine is stupid because I don't understand it".

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Pisses me off how many so called network people I talk to who cannot even describe the basic concepts of IPv6 or basic security
Let me introduce you to a supposed Cisco CCNA whose idea of "fix a notebook PC with DNS issues" is "assign a static IP configuration to the client by setting IP = adjacent PC DHCP IP + 1", and who cannot calculate (indepently OR USING GOOGLE) subnet masks...
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Old 10th May 2016, 3:38 PM   #15015
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. so, basically the thread is pro-linux and if anything goes against the flow its the end of the world. tribal behaviour.
I'm pro anything that does the job the best and saves me work, time and money.
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