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Old 14th September 2017, 1:35 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Matthew kane View Post
Why are some people calling the X iphone 10 (assuming we going by roman numerals now which has never been the case for iphone models) ?
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because that's what Apple are calling it.
That's it. Tim Cook called it iPhone 10 when he announced it. Not surprising at all because Mac OS X was called 10 not "X".
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Old 14th September 2017, 2:09 PM   #152
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So Apple have copied Microsoft and skipped V9?
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Old 14th September 2017, 2:34 PM   #153
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Because it's the 10th anniversary, and they got too busy fuckarsing around with names, S, S Plus S Plus S, etc for money grabs for recycled hardware. My guess.
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Old 14th September 2017, 3:48 PM   #154
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That's shit house. So no iphone 9? Fuck me, I'm going to expect to own an iphone 50 when I'am an old grandpa.
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Old 14th September 2017, 3:49 PM   #155
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That's it. Tim Cook called it iPhone 10 when he announced it. Not surprising at all because Mac OS X was called 10 not "X".
Mac OS X is called Mac OS X, not 10.
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Old 14th September 2017, 4:10 PM   #156
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Mac OS X is called Mac OS X, not 10.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS
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The "X" in Mac OS X and OS X is pronounced "ten", as it is the Roman numeral for the number 10.
Feel free to notify Wikipedia if you have other sources contradicting the above.
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Old 14th September 2017, 4:56 PM   #157
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The article is a humorous demonstration of the "instant gratification" problem people have. The phone in isolation is not the problem, but rather people upgrading year on year with no need, simply because the beat of Apple's marketing drum told them to. Ditto for every other fashion item they own (because again, phones are status/fashion items far more than practical devices - arguably nobody *needs* a $1800 phone, when they can do the same tasks on cheaper models).
This is interesting, and in Aus, the numbers are actually quite scary.
When you use the term 'fashion' if we just refer to clothing, apparently Australians are the second largest consumers of clothes behind America (per person, ofc,.) - 27kg of clothes a year.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-1...onment/8177624
(and apparently on average we throw out ~23kg a year)

I know my wife and I are at the other end of that scale (we have tshirts that are still worn from 20years ago, we wear clothing until it wears out, not because it isn't fashionable. the only issue is we can't hand off our left overs to charity - they won't take cleaning rags ), but then you hear about how some others see fashion, and it actually scares me how much people consume.
One of my wife's work colleagues had a go at her because her shirt was one she had seen her wear last year. And then was ranting that you should be replacing clothes every season. When my wife clarified this position, the response was "Clothing only lasts 3 months, then you throw everything out and replace everything"
And as you can expect, this is someone who buys lunch and 2-3 coffees a day, and whinges about never having money, how it is tough to live paycheck to paycheck (on 90k a year for her income, and her husband works full time as well)

We really do live in a consumerist society.
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Old 14th September 2017, 6:46 PM   #158
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Getting rid of fingerprint auth all together (not even on the back?) is a bit stupid, you can just point the phone at the owner's face from considerable range to unlock, use apple pay and more..
Also because swipe up is now the new home, all the the new swipe down from the left side to get notifications and swipe down from the right side to get control, etc to get different is going to make it very hard to use one handed.. meh.

Once again, design over function.
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Old 14th September 2017, 6:48 PM   #159
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Getting rid of fingerprint auth all together (not even on the back?) is a bit stupid, you can just point the phone at the owner's face from considerable range to unlock, use apple pay and more..
Also because swipe up is now the new home, all the the new swipe down from the left side to get notifications and swipe down from the right side to get control, etc to get different is going to make it very hard to use one handed.. meh.

Once again, design over function.
no way, it's #courage
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Old 14th September 2017, 7:05 PM   #160
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I'm not sure I can take statistics advice from someone who thinks a dice has 7 sides!
I was distracted while I was posting. Apologies. But you get the gist. (The other numbers are right - the average is still 3.5, which is not only impossible to roll, it's also not an indicator of what you're likely to roll on any given roll).

Last edited by elvis; 14th September 2017 at 7:23 PM.
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Old 14th September 2017, 7:55 PM   #161
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS


Feel free to notify Wikipedia if you have other sources contradicting the above.
Nobody calls it Mac OS '10'. I've been using there products using the Mac OS environment for as long as I remember.
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Old 14th September 2017, 8:21 PM   #162
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I say mac 10.
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Old 14th September 2017, 8:41 PM   #163
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So Apple have copied Microsoft and skipped V9?
Do you really think they sat there and said I think we need to follow what MS has done......?
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Old 14th September 2017, 8:47 PM   #164
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Do you really think they sat there and said I think we need to follow what MS has done......?
Yeah they are feeling left out of the x party I mean Microsoft is releasing the xbox One X that's 3 x's! Apple have to keep up.
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Old 14th September 2017, 8:53 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Sphinx2000 View Post
Getting rid of fingerprint auth all together (not even on the back?) is a bit stupid, you can just point the phone at the owner's face from considerable range to unlock, use apple pay and more..
Also because swipe up is now the new home, all the the new swipe down from the left side to get notifications and swipe down from the right side to get control, etc to get different is going to make it very hard to use one handed.. meh.

Once again, design over function.
Getting rid of the fingerprint auth I agree is stupid (would have like to have seen it in the power button, because I think the FaceID not working is going to be an infinitely larger problem than it working for people it shouldn't.

If by considerable range you mean 'within a reasonable human's arm length' then yes. If you mean further, then no, because even I could code something that could tell the phone was further away than that with one camera. With the number of cameras and projectors in that thing it would require a special kind of stupid to have not defended against that on day 0.

What I find interesting is that the 'portrait lighting' has fairly certainly come out of the effort they put into FaceID, and I'm wondering whether the portrait mode on the 7 wasn't also related.

Agree on the control centre being problematic, reserve final judgement for when using one, but I can't see it being as easy as the current swipe from the bottom. Especially without the probably seldom used anyway reach-ability feature.

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So Apple have copied Microsoft and skipped V9?
Microsoft skipped 9 because so much code is like:

if (version like 'windows 9%') --detect windows 95/98

Apple I guess it's just the 10th anniversary? Maybe also trying to keep their phone numbering as high as any competitor...

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I'm not sure how you quantify "best track record". Apple do well in some areas of security, and have screwed up others. They're no different to any other vendor in this regard, and anyone saying anything different is merely demonstrating bias.
Most on that scale have stuffed up worse. Short of blackberry I've not seen a phone harder to get into. And they're really not a player anymore. So yeah, I discounted companies without reasonable market share, because I my mind they're not in the running. So sue me.

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I don't. The phone as a status symbol phenomena is well documented across many demographics. Teens are the worst - ask any high school principal. But worryingly, more recently, adults aren't much better, with many not maturing past their teenage years due to the impacts of social media, celebrity worship, and obsessions with status.
I'm sure you're correct, but your implication this is a universal truth that applies to everyone is overreach.

Quote:
The article is a humorous demonstration of the "instant gratification" problem people have. The phone in isolation is not the problem, but rather people upgrading year on year with no need, simply because the beat of Apple's marketing drum told them to. Ditto for every other fashion item they own (because again, phones are status/fashion items far more than practical devices - arguably nobody *needs* a $1800 phone, when they can do the same tasks on cheaper models).
True. I don't have that problem, so I find it hard to see. I buy $1 T-Shirts because they are for other people and I don't buy into status symbol crap. But I'll buy a $4k macbook because I enjoy using it, me, not to be seen, but because I tried cheaper and it was crap. I've literally had to buy a battery case to keep my phone alive (because I'm not able to do without it for long enough to get the battery replaced for work reasons). So I can stretch it another year. But then I'll have no problem in year 3 or 4 buying an expensive phone, I'll hide it in a case too.

Quote:
I'm actually a bit surprised I have to explain that.
It's because you are being dismissive of other people you know nothing about, you are saying that's a problem, everyone has it, no one would ever buy an expensive phone because they enjoy using it, it has to be to show off. This is simply not true. You can't claim to know what's in other people's heads, that's ridiculous.

Quote:
Humans are pretty terrible at understanding statistics. "On average" rolling a dice will result in "3.5", but I've got as likely a chance of getting a 1 as a 6 on the first roll. If Apple's measurement of FaceID is "one in a million", that is as likely to be the first person as the millionth, and more to the point "a million" is a very small number. (Also probably a lot more likely for relatives, family member, or people of similar facial markers via similar genetics/race).
I know, I'm explaining statistics to people every other day. Any one entry in a lottery is as likely to win as any other, it could be the first time you buy a ticket, it's just very very unlikely, buying a second ticket later, still the same chance as the first one.

So you could try a million faces, but the next one is still not guaranteed to log you in. But of course you only get a handful of failed attempts, so 1 in a million is still a very low chance. That's really the key here, failed attempts need to lock you out quickly, otherwise you're right, it's not very high. .

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In security, you want to see chances of one-in-trillions or more, not millions, and especially when the sample set (faces) are less random than you'd think when you hang out with people who look similar to you (as we all tend to do, as is human nature).
Those 'pattern' unlocks are the worst, there's only a handful people regularly use.
4 digit passcode 1/10,000 (probably worse if you socially engineer it)
fingerprint 1/50,000 * claimed
FaceID 1/1,000,000 * claimed

None of these are infallible, which is why you need yet another longer more complex password for your apple ID + 2 factor. For just getting into your phone this is infinitely better than nothing, and there's nothing better that people will use regularly.

If the people you hang around with are likely to drain your bank account and steal your identity, you've got problems a phone can't solve.

I can tell you, from practically dealing with security, one-in-trillions is the goal but it's rarely achieved by the every-day-man. And one in trillions is insufficient if you're allowing infinite guesses against a sophisticated attacker, the NSA can do a trillion guesses a second for even some fairly complex algorithms. But for stopping your mates from pissing about with your phone, or that pickpocket from getting into your phone, one in a million is a hundred times more than sufficient when they have only a handful of tries.

Because exactly what you say, the chance of getting a 1 on a die is 1/6. Every time. Because you try it 6 times, doesn't mean you're guaranteed to get a 1. Which means even if the chance is 1:1,000,000 practically speaking if you're trying to get into the phone, you could be there a very very long time. Sure, time #1 you could get lucky, but it's unlikely, especially given they actually have to take your phone from you physically first. Unless you're the owners identical twin I imagine, in which case, I guess you're SOL.

The 'average' of all the numbers on a 6 sided die has nothing to do with statistics as they relate to frequency. Maybe an example of rolling 2 or more dice? That then will give you a distribution that has some statistical interest. But again is really not related to the question at hand.

Maybe I'm biased because I've never lost a phone, or a wallet, or keys, of freaking anything despite plenty of overseas travel and being 'sized up' plenty of times. Literally physical security is the #1 form of security, anything else is just a backup, 1:1,000,000 sounds pretty good to me if it also requires breaching physical security, especially since it doesn't give access to my bank accounts, or any money without another password. Meanwhile I used credit cards where exactly one person in a decade ever checked the signature, paypass where there is 0 security once you have the physical item, or keycards that can be skimmed so you don't even need the physical item.

So in the battle for convenience vs security, this seems to be firmly on the security side, to the point I'm more worried it won't work with MY face and will hamper my convenience.
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