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Old 11th October 2017, 8:19 PM   #2056
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Well, lessons learnt here.

Sizing up an off grid system to be 100% reliable short of a natural disaster involves a lot more than one would initially think.


I'm enjoying the work integrated learning. But damn, a lot of factors to allow for and calculate in, with worst possible case ect: and still have no downtime of the system.
yea, no, I would think it would take a HELL of a lot of work and cost.
unless you're running camping fridges or something.
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Old 12th October 2017, 3:19 AM   #2057
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I think people misjudge how cheap it is to run a generator a few times a year to cover:

1. Long stretches of cloudy/rainy days;
2. Unusual high energy usage several times a year.

Also, from what I read on other forums, people adapt to "energy budgets" easily like they do with money budgets... If it's not there to spend, you learn where you are wasting energy fast.

Unless your specification is 100% renewable, rather than 100% off grid, I think a small DC generator goes a long way to reducing the size and cost of a fully off grid system.
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Old 12th October 2017, 3:42 AM   #2058
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I think people misjudge how cheap it is to run a generator a few times a year to cover:

1. Long stretches of cloudy/rainy days;
2. Unusual high energy usage several times a year.

Also, from what I read on other forums, people adapt to "energy budgets" easily like they do with money budgets... If it's not there to spend, you learn where you are wasting energy fast.

Unless your specification is 100% renewable, rather than 100% off grid, I think a small DC generator goes a long way to reducing the size and cost of a fully off grid system.
It needs to be 100% maintenance free once set up. So solar with battery storage is the way to go considering this, as well as the location. An onsite generator is not possible for a few reasons.

1. Vibrations
2. air pollution in the immediate vacinnity of the equipment
3. refilling of fuel at random times when needed is not feasible
4. Noise pollution.

Cannot use wind due to the site ( not good for dependable wind power ) as well as the windmill messing up the natural flow of air in the immediate vacinnity of the equipment.
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You can evidently see who here holds an attitude of trying to improve and happiness, as compared to the sourpusses that frequent here.
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Old 12th October 2017, 4:09 AM   #2059
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I read all posts and I can say nice work I love it
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Old 12th October 2017, 8:07 AM   #2060
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100% maintenance free once set up.
yeaaaa not even with solar.
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Old 12th October 2017, 8:21 AM   #2061
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yeaaaa not even with solar.
Solid state.

Maintenance free batteries, which should be maintenance free for the duration i need them to be

edit: nothing is 100%, but making it as close as possible with my proposed setup design.
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Last edited by Mathuisella; 12th October 2017 at 8:29 AM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 9:16 AM   #2062
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how long are you wanting to run the set up?
my maintenance free batteries went shitward in ~2 years.
one went out of balance somehow and I couldn't see it, and stuffed the whole lot up.
they now run at 12.4 after settling.
and yes, I researched the shit out of the best way to do it.
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Old 12th October 2017, 1:05 PM   #2063
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how long are you wanting to run the set up?
my maintenance free batteries went shitward in ~2 years.
one went out of balance somehow and I couldn't see it, and stuffed the whole lot up.
they now run at 12.4 after settling.
and yes, I researched the shit out of the best way to do it.
i'm using maintenance free Deep Cycle Batteries with draw rate of .08%, So they're quite under stressed and i'll get max cycles out of them. Looking for 4 years.

1461 cycles, however, a cycle may take more than 1 night to complete eg: very cloudy day following a night, or a cloudy day followed by a night and then cloudy day ect:

at the moment, my design allows for 9 days in a row of poor sunshine (50% DOD). However, doing more calculations using the last 10 years of data from the Bureau of Meteorology
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Old 12th October 2017, 2:27 PM   #2064
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I know it's not feasible yet, but I'm dreaming about a time where you can get hydrogen fuel cells "cheap" from old cars. You know something like when these become so common, you can find one at most wreckers:

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucsonfuelcell/index.aspx

Then buy a hydrogen generator, run off spare solar energy. Expanding your "battery" at that point, would be as easy as buying another empty tank.

But yeah, given the constraints you've got, it's not going to be cheap. But why lead? It's been shown now that over a 10 year pay back, Lithium based batteries are cheaper, more reliable and with a good battery murdering system, is genuinely maintenance free - no topping up of water, desulphating, or equalisation charges. The occasional balancing charges is all done by the BMS.

2-4 years is pretty typical for Lead, but you're still at 80% capacity with well treated LiFePo4 after 8-10 years. So the initial up front cost may hurt, but by round 2 of batteries you're ahead, and round 3 is just money for jam.
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Old 12th October 2017, 2:50 PM   #2065
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I know it's not feasible yet, but I'm dreaming about a time where you can get hydrogen fuel cells "cheap" from old cars. You know something like when these become so common, you can find one at most wreckers:

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucsonfuelcell/index.aspx

Then buy a hydrogen generator, run off spare solar energy. Expanding your "battery" at that point, would be as easy as buying another empty tank.

But yeah, given the constraints you've got, it's not going to be cheap. But why lead? It's been shown now that over a 10 year pay back, Lithium based batteries are cheaper, more reliable and with a good battery murdering system, is genuinely maintenance free - no topping up of water, desulphating, or equalisation charges. The occasional balancing charges is all done by the BMS.

2-4 years is pretty typical for Lead, but you're still at 80% capacity with well treated LiFePo4 after 8-10 years. So the initial up front cost may hurt, but by round 2 of batteries you're ahead, and round 3 is just money for jam.

Funny you should mention that as one of my subjects' projects at uni is improving Hydrogen Fuel cells
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Old 13th October 2017, 2:21 PM   #2066
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yea, no, I would think it would take a HELL of a lot of work and cost.
unless you're running camping fridges or something.
Not really panels are cheap today and still produce power on cloudy days. its $4000 installed for 12kw of panels after rebates.

Add inverters lets say $2500 mpp solar (same as giant) inverter

Batterys are comming down in price quick tesla/GE and TCL(i think it is) can be had for approx 10k for 10kw

Used batterys can be had for MUCH less.

People are now getting used tesla car battery packs and using them they are 400v 85-115AH.

Ill be going fully off grid soon but house will be designed around that eg all led lights and essential circuits and normal circuits and my inverter can control aux relays to drop of the power.

12kw of pannels should produce 60kw of power daily more than enough. Now lets say due to clouds ect you pannels only produce 25% of that figure its still 15kw daily.

A back up genny can be had for $750 (3.5kva kings) this would still be portable so u can use it camping ect or you could run a auto start genny starting at twice the cost.
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Old 13th October 2017, 2:36 PM   #2067
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you just listed my definition of "a HELL of a lot of work and cost." :P
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Originally Posted by eightyeight
I'm british on my mum's side and think most aussies and aussie culture in general is just absolutely degenerate.
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Old 13th October 2017, 2:40 PM   #2068
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you just listed my definition of "a HELL of a lot of work and cost." :P
Iíd class it as pretty cheap really.

You could go off grid for under 10k
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Old 14th October 2017, 10:25 AM   #2069
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Not really panels are cheap today and still produce power on cloudy days. its $4000 installed for 12kw of panels after rebates.
Which state? Quotes I'm getting arent even close to that ball park.
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Old 14th October 2017, 10:49 AM   #2070
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Which state? Quotes I'm getting arent even close to that ball park.
Qld. Thatís Panels installed does not include extras plus there not top tier pannels. $100 per panel installed. Why get a few % extra efficiently for twicevthe price of German pannels.

Much more and you are getting ripped.
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