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Old 14th May 2017, 3:27 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Virtuoso X View Post
i dont get the need for 8/12/16 cores... seriously, why doesnt AMD just focus on its 6 core and get its clock up to par with intel's or surpass it
thats why i think Coffee will be atleast 4.5ghz stock

plus do programs / games even use the multi - cores properly anyway?
i remember seeing bench marks where two CPU's clocked the same, one being two core 4 threads the other being 4/8 and the results showed the 2/4 had better in-game performance (i7/i3 comes to mind)
AMD "getting it's clock up" requires access to fabs and a node process that is more mature than they have access to. It's not even AMD's R&D that's holding them back (anymore), it's the resources they have access to.
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Old 14th May 2017, 8:58 PM   #32
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AMD "getting it's clock up" requires access to fabs and a node process that is more mature than they have access to. It's not even AMD's R&D that's holding them back (anymore), it's the resources they have access to.
so instead they add extra, almost redundant cores?
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Old 14th May 2017, 9:27 PM   #33
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so instead they add extra, almost redundant cores?
Increasing frequencies would be great - but in addition to the factors Fleetfeather mentioned, moving to a higher frequency (FMAX) target, at current IPC levels also means larger die sizes, and almost certainly decreased performance/watt. It would also blow out the development time, hence time to market.. All three of which are detrimental to the most profitable markets Zen is aimed at - Server and Notebook.

(and the later even detremental to Ryzen )
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Old 14th May 2017, 9:48 PM   #34
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Increasing frequencies would be great - but in addition to the factors Fleetfeather mentioned, moving to a higher frequency (FMAX) target, at current IPC levels also means larger die sizes, and almost certainly decreased performance/watt. It would also blow out the development time, hence time to market.. All three of which are detrimental to the most profitable markets Zen is aimed at - Server and Notebook.

(and the later even detremental to Ryzen )
that makes sense if theyre hitting a specific market, but alot of people are comparing the 7700k with the 1800x and the 7700k is better in most applications except heavy multicore/threaded applications, im guessing theres some tweaking on the application side that has to be done to take advantage of the extra cores?

anywho, im tossing up whether to wait for coffeelake or get a 7700k to be the successor to this 2700k @ 5.2ghz
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Old 14th May 2017, 10:17 PM   #35
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i had a 5960x @ 4.5Ghz, i side graded to an 1800X which is running at 4.0ghz

Gaming @ 4K, the 5960x was maybe 1-2% faster. Was only able to tell once crunching numbers.

gaming at 4k no real difference between the two. 1800x in hevy multi threads beats the 5960x, but thats at stock speeds, at 4.5vs4.0 the 5960x still wins.
But 7700K would be faster than 6900K/1800X for most games, right?
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Old 14th May 2017, 10:19 PM   #36
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Well they're going off the two most profitable markets, (compared to Desktop) , and both by chance are performance per watt bound. Not maximum frequency/performance.

I think you'd be disappointed upgrading to a 7700K from what is obviously a very good 2700K you have there - as I said, 20% IPC avg from the Sandy bridge to skylake core (which is the same core in kabylake/coffeelake), and you'll be lucky to get over 5Ghz on a 7700K so you may have a frequency regression. This alone should be a clue as to why AMD wouldn't chase down this sort of performance goal.. It's a dead end. Do not be surprised to see Intel either stagnate, or regress in single threaded performance with future cores in order to improve MT performance.
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Old 15th May 2017, 8:33 AM   #37
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so instead they add extra, almost redundant cores?
You can buy 4C and 6C variants of Ryzen chips if you want to save money on cores you consider 'almost redundant', but that won't improve the process maturity holding all of their chips down to ~4.0ghz.
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Old 15th May 2017, 11:31 AM   #38
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anywho, im tossing up whether to wait for coffeelake or get a 7700k to be the successor to this 2700k @ 5.2ghz
I'm in the same boat although I've got a 4790.
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Old 15th May 2017, 9:47 PM   #39
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I'm in the same boat although I've got a 4790.
im going to hold off till coffee lake comes.
im happy enough with my 2700k @ 5.2Ghz i doubt upgrading to a 7700k will make that much of a difference right now.
and if what theyre saying is true in regards to 6c12t then coffee lake is the obvious choice.
but the cpu isnt the only thing that needs upgrading, our mobos have alot of draw backs compared to the newer 1151 boards (ddr4 support, m2 support, pcie 3.0, etc etc)

i just hope coffee lake uses the same 1151 boards/ z270 as i may be forced to upgrade really soon.
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Old 16th May 2017, 8:50 AM   #40
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upgrading, our mobos have alot of draw backs compared to the newer 1151 boards (ddr4 support, m2 support, pcie 3.0, etc etc)

i just hope coffee lake uses the same 1151 boards/ z270 as i may be forced to upgrade really soon.
This is true - it's just a lot of money to outlay for those coming from overclocked SB systems, to get 20 to 30% more performance, and some new mobo features..

I think halo 6c/12t Coffeelake is an absolute given post Ryzen release. Having said that, they are seemingly releasing quad's.. even w/out HT on X299 which seems batshit crazy, so anythings possible.
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Old 16th May 2017, 9:17 AM   #41
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This is true - it's just a lot of money to outlay for those coming from overclocked SB systems, to get 20 to 30% more performance, and some new mobo features..

I think halo 6c/12t Coffeelake is an absolute given post Ryzen release. Having said that, they are seemingly releasing quad's.. even w/out HT on X299 which seems batshit crazy, so anythings possible.
in the past mainstream and enthusiast was two different lines, cpu and motherboard

i do believe there is still seperate cpu'S, however not a seperate socket.

No idea how they are going to implement this, as 7740k having dual channel mem, and the 7920x having hex channel.

Cant wait to see what i get to play with!!!
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Old 16th May 2017, 1:44 PM   #42
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This is true - it's just a lot of money to outlay for those coming from overclocked SB systems, to get 20 to 30% more performance, and some new mobo features..

I think halo 6c/12t Coffeelake is an absolute given post Ryzen release. Having said that, they are seemingly releasing quad's.. even w/out HT on X299 which seems batshit crazy, so anythings possible.
the upgrade will be more worth it when coffee lake comes out, its 14nm same as kabylake which makes me believe itll use the same 1151 socket/z270 chipset

also the quads without ht? whats the point? kaby already have these

im actually considering upgrading to a lower end kaby right now then upgrade to coffee when it comes out, but there no confirmation that coffee will use the 1151 just for the extra mobo goodies.
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Old 18th May 2017, 9:46 PM   #43
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Well they could be dropping the K series CPUs on the main stream socket going forward, otherwise why would you have the same CPU on two different sockets?
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Old 18th May 2017, 9:49 PM   #44
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Well they could be dropping the K series CPUs on the main stream socket going forward, otherwise why would you have the same CPU on two different sockets?
.....X299 gateway drug?
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Old 19th May 2017, 8:32 AM   #45
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Looking good
https://www.ocaholic.co.uk/modules/n...?storyid=16540
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