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Old 15th September 2016, 9:03 PM   #16
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Well this thread sucks now :/
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Old 15th September 2016, 9:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebu View Post
does a legit RGB monitor with the original hardware scanlines produce the effect?
Nah I saw a video comparing it somewhere, it looks cooler via composite.
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Old 15th September 2016, 9:07 PM   #18
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Really, scanlines aren't really a big thing for me. I don't even really see them because I sit far enough away from the TV. (And before anyone asks - yes I can still see a clear difference between composite and RGB from where I sit, I've tried).

You might say that everybody played their consoles over RF back then, which is true.... I didn't know anyone that hooked up speakers and a sub to their TV in the 90's but I've gone and done that as well...

For me its more about having the systems I wished I could have afforded, and having them the best they can be... I've gone over why I don't think emulation and LCD's are the go in this forum before so I won't repeat myself.

But yes, that bloke that adjusted his PVM to get bigger scanlines is taking it a bit far

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I don't recall seeing it ever discussed on here

whats peoples thoughts on the cheaty effects developers used that relied on colour bleed/etc on a composite output

for example the transparency of Sonic's shield

http://imgur.com/a/JS63b


does a legit RGB monitor with the original hardware scanlines produce the effect?
Yeah, I noticed this on my RGB TV- looks exactly like the lower picture, and it rotates around Sonic. Better, worse? I dunno, its just an effect. I'd rather have the sharp pixels then the mushy composite soup regardless of the shield effect!

I know that Sierra did this with some of their early Quest games - if you had CGA Composite video, it would use the artifacts to show more colours than was normally possible.
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Old 15th September 2016, 9:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebu View Post
does a legit RGB monitor with the original hardware scanlines produce the effect?
https://youtu.be/IPbDvqFdjG4 skip to 17:30 and you can see the comparison. Personally I prefer RGB.
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Old 15th September 2016, 9:46 PM   #20
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So here's a curveball.

I've got a couple of TVs that do component YPbPr input. Theoretically "as good" as RGB to the naked eye. One is a whopper 80cm (31") 4:3 beast.

I've considered for ages opening these up and modding them for RGB input. Plenty of examples of this around the Internet, with varying degrees of success depending on the model of TV - oddly enough, the "cheap and nasty" Chinese model TVs often work best due to their very simple chassis and jungle IC design.

But then I came across this:

http://www.tg16pcemods.com/rgb-to-co...rter-v-20.html

Simple, cheap, RGB to YPBPr converter. Just converts colour space, doesn't do anything else magical (no scaling, effects, or other stuff done by high end devices like the Extronn do-dads or the Open Source Scan Converter).

They sell two models, one for the TG16 (from what I read, it had a rather weak RGB out, so there's a small amp in there too), and one for SNES/Genesis with a LM1881N sync stripper built in to clean up the sync.

I bought myself one a short time ago. Waiting for it to land from the US. As soon as I get it hooked up, I'll try and grab some shots of it in action, and attempt to do a compare/contrast on a few different inputs on this particular TV.

I'm absolutely not expecting PVM quality. But I'll be interested to see if it betters S-Video by a noticeable margin or not.
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Old 16th September 2016, 11:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis View Post
So here's a curveball.

I've got a couple of TVs that do component YPbPr input. Theoretically "as good" as RGB to the naked eye. One is a whopper 80cm (31") 4:3 beast.
Set it up and post the results.

I'm a unit dweller, the couple of 14" and 20" monitors I use take up as much space as I have.
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Old 19th September 2016, 6:56 PM   #22
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Deleted a bunch of my posts because they crapped all over the thread. My apologies to the OP.

On topic. I fired up my Chinese made "Megalo City" candy cabinet tonight. Monitor is a 29" (huge!) Mexican tube with a Chinese chassis. Not the clearest thing in the world, but still pretty bloody amazing considering how cheap the whole cabinet (including screen) is.

This has had various things in it over the years. Most recently a Playstation 2 with hacked controls so I could play my Japanese copy of Street Fighter III: Third Strike on an arcade machine. However my wife a few years ago bought me a real Sega Versus City with SF3:3S CPSIII board, making the setup redundant. I played with a couple of other things on PS2, but over time they've all been emulated by MAME, and the PS2's mostly interlaced output sucks.

So tonight it's got GroovyArcade + GroovyMAME in it. "World Rally" has been released to the public domain, and comes as a nice test to see how things look.

A couple of photos here:
http://imgur.com/a/JALro

Hard to get stills with fast moving images, but so far so good. Very little tweaking needed on my behalf compared to last time I tried this with AdvanceMAME years ago it was a royal pain. Now, it was about 5 minutes of following wizard-driven setups, and it was working.

The monitor needs tweaking every time new modelines fire up (vertical rolling is a pain between different 59.9Hz and 60.0Hz modes), but that's the price to pay for accuracy, I guess.
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Old 19th September 2016, 8:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Simple, cheap, RGB to YPBPr converter.
Oh cool, I paid almost double that for an asian eBay SCART RGB->component converter. I get a clear picture with it, but I also get a blue hue over everything - from what I've seen it's a pretty common board and there's a few potentiometers in there to adjust the colours, but I haven't cracked it open yet.

My problem is my TV (a mid 2000s Sony CRT) does a pretty darn good job at composite, and it's almost not worth the effort...
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Old 20th September 2016, 7:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
My problem is my TV (a mid 2000s Sony CRT) does a pretty darn good job at composite, and it's almost not worth the effort...
Yar I use a little 14" Sony CRT and I think its composite image is amazing
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Old 20th September 2016, 8:31 AM   #25
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Composite can be half decent depending on the combination of you source, cable and screen.

I work for a media company, and I've seen some great quality broadcast gear (PVMs, and the far superior BVMs, etc) that, combined with high quality gear generating a picture, can certainly make for decent composite signal (RGB still beats the pants off it, but it's not terrible).

Compare and contrast to noisy consumer equipment though. It doesn't matter how good the display and cable, something like a Raspberry Pi always makes for blurry composite output, which saddens me. (It also doesn't help that they force an interlaced picture, which is half the problem).
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Old 20th September 2016, 9:57 AM   #26
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For me, even S-Video is leagues ahead of Composite - the former is much sharper, with better colour definition. In fact there is more of a difference between S-Video and Composite, than S-Video and SCART-RGB.
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Old 20th September 2016, 10:06 AM   #27
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And then you get cockups like the PS2, where the YPbPr circuit is packed full of unnecessary filtering, and ends up looking worse than S-Video - like someone smeared Vaseline all over your screen.

I thought for years my CRT had a faulty YPbPr input until I realised it was my PS2 itself. And eventually discussions on GamesX and AssemblerGames both confirmed that I wasn't going crazy.

One day I play to crack open one of my PS2s and see if I can fix that. If it's all inside the IC though, then there's no hope.
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Old 20th September 2016, 11:27 AM   #28
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The newest console I own is an N64 which just looks like the screen was smeared with vaseline regardless of which output you use
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Old 20th September 2016, 11:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonutKing View Post
The newest console I own is an N64 which just looks like the screen was smeared with vaseline regardless of which output you use
Yes the output of those bad boys is murky. Everything else I run on my trusty little 14" (SMS, SMD, C64, PS1) looks A-OK to me but in saying that I don't think I've ever seen them hooked up with anything fancier than composite, so I'm still comparing it to the RF-only telly I had as a kid.

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Old 20th September 2016, 11:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonutKing View Post
The newest console I own is an N64 which just looks like the screen was smeared with vaseline regardless of which output you use
That was actually done by design on chip, and sometimes software-controllable (i.e.: not a fault of bad components). I agree it looked terrible.

The good news is the clever AssemblerGames kids found a way to fix this using something like the Game Shark for certain games.

http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/...-cheats.59916/

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