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Old 24th March 2017, 9:49 PM   #586
Ratzz
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Originally Posted by LukeD_NC View Post
so here's some food for thought about overclocking:

image
That's fine for those who have a pair of 1080Ti's. Nearly 3000 points difference in physics doesn't make a big dent in a score of 29000 in Firestrike, but its the difference between hero and zero when you only have a 1080 and you are struggling for 20000.

You too will care about the extra 3000 points when all the non reference 1080Ti SLi setups get into the hands of the overclockers and start making even 29000 seem like pissing in the rain.
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Old 24th March 2017, 10:15 PM   #587
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You too will care about the extra 3000 points when all the non reference 1080Ti SLi setups get into the hands of the overclockers and start making even 29000 seem like pissing in the rain.
Someone's a little cranky today.

Why would i care about 29000 points in a test that depicts a GPU load the same as half life 2 ? Anything over 90 fps (or some would say 120fps) and you can't see the difference.
Why would i care about non reference 1080Ti cards when I'll put mine under water and they'll take up less space and perform within a margin of 1% performance difference and probably suck 5-10% less juice, without having to heal with huge saggy PCB's.

And just so happens that there's a perfectly timed video of buildzoid talking about 10xx series reference boards and custom boards
Quote: "We've seen that custom 10 series cards do not clock ANY better than the reference cards so far, again so this does not matter unless you're doing LN2 overclocking..."
Link: YouTube

Also, its irrelevant if you're using 1080Ti SLI, 1080Ti or RX480 ... CPU scaling in overclocks will pretty much stay the same.
Stop being a sour-puss kid and stick to the topic.

Last edited by LukeD_NC; 24th March 2017 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 24th March 2017, 10:37 PM   #588
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Someone's a little cranky today.

Why would i care about 29000 points in a test that depicts a GPU load the same as half life 2 ? Anything over 90 fps (or some would say 120fps) and you can't see the difference.
Why would i care about non reference 1080Ti cards when I'll put mine under water and they'll take up less space and perform within a margin of 1% performance difference and probably suck 5-10% less juice, without having to heal with huge saggy PCB's.

Also, its irrelevant if you're using 1080Ti SLI, 1080Ti or RX480 ... CPU scaling in overclocks will pretty much stay the same.
Stop being a sour-puss kid.

I'm not cranky, if I came across that way I am happy to apologise.

You appear to be saying, as far as I can see, that overclocking reaps minimal benefits. My point being, those minimal benefits can mean a lot to some people. I don't even game, so for me those minimal benefits help my only interest.. getting as much as I can out of what I have. I'm an overclocker and PC enthusiast, not a gamer.

The reference to water cooling is pretty pointless. You think they won't be able to do the same? Take a look at my rig and you'll see I'm well aware of the advantages, and I don't have a reference card either. Actually it might be on a reference PCB, being a Gigabyte, I'm not sure, but its certainly not reference specs.

CPU scaling remains about the same regardless of the GPU, exactly as you say, which is why I say it makes it less relevant for high end GPU's than low end, because the physics becomes less influential on the total score in the case of a lowly i7.

I so want a 6950X .. now THAT amount of physics would make a difference on your rig.

Insulting me is hardly the way to have a rational discussion.. and unless you have been on an old age pension for many years you probably shouldn't be calling me a kid.

I'm interested in knowing just how it is that I have deviated from the topic too incidentally?
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Last edited by Ratzz; 24th March 2017 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 24th March 2017, 11:13 PM   #589
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Mate you definitely came off as cranky. Hence my snappy response back to you.

If you don't game then why do you care about 3d mark scores ?

The point I was making with the benchmarks is that at some point you're creeping into the area of diminishing returns. It sure seems to be that way with 7700k.
I am happy running mine @ 5ghz but the extra power draw, heat and cooling required aren't really worth it.
Delidding mine helped take the temperature down heaps and that was worth it. Being able to overclock over 5ghz was fun, but i dont see the benefit in real world applications.

I like to fine tune and find a balance between those variables. I spend my money where it counts because I'm the type of person that likes to run the setup I have on a 700 Watt platinum PSU, instead of paying an extra hundred dollars for a 1000 Watt PSU which is completely uncessary.
Same goes for people that run 2 x 360mm radiators ... there's no point. You're spending so much more money for 1-2% gains. And your components won't overclock much higher if they're running at 35c or 60c.

And once again a 6950X is useless to a gamer, it doesn't make a gaming experience any better. If you're some sort of designer, graphic artist or movie maker, sure ... but to buy a 6950X just to get a better physics score in 3dmark is a total waste of money imo.
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Old 24th March 2017, 11:20 PM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_mordred2095 View Post
Oh look, Kryonaut is average-at-best for air/water. The people who bought it wouldn't listen to me when I told them, though -_-
More proof that if you're delidding and not putting liquid metal under there, why bother.

The small size of the die surface is the biggest source of thermal resistance in the cpu->ihs->heatsink->heatpipe/loop->rad->air heat transfer process. That's where choosing the most conductive option gives the biggest benefit.
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Last edited by bennyg; 24th March 2017 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 25th March 2017, 3:09 AM   #591
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Mate you definitely came off as cranky. Hence my snappy response back to you.

If you don't game then why do you care about 3d mark scores ?

The point I was making with the benchmarks is that at some point you're creeping into the area of diminishing returns. It sure seems to be that way with 7700k.
I am happy running mine @ 5ghz but the extra power draw, heat and cooling required aren't really worth it.
Delidding mine helped take the temperature down heaps and that was worth it. Being able to overclock over 5ghz was fun, but i dont see the benefit in real world applications.

I like to fine tune and find a balance between those variables. I spend my money where it counts because I'm the type of person that likes to run the setup I have on a 700 Watt platinum PSU, instead of paying an extra hundred dollars for a 1000 Watt PSU which is completely uncessary.
Same goes for people that run 2 x 360mm radiators ... there's no point. You're spending so much more money for 1-2% gains. And your components won't overclock much higher if they're running at 35c or 60c.

And once again a 6950X is useless to a gamer, it doesn't make a gaming experience any better. If you're some sort of designer, graphic artist or movie maker, sure ... but to buy a 6950X just to get a better physics score in 3dmark is a total waste of money imo.
Why do I care about scores? Its a challenge. The website is after all called overclockers.com.au.

I'm the type of person who likes to spend my money on whatever takes my fancy.... but yeah, I run a single 280 rad because its enough. The 7700K actually hits a pretty big wall at about 65C, most people will not get much gain at all if it gets hotter than that. A 280, delidding and conductonaut are a cost effective combination that works very well at keeping temps below that, at high clocks on a 7700K. Its the most amazing consumer chip ever. And I run my system on a 550W Gold PSU, but I don't and never will have 2 GPU's (ITX is a bugger for that).

Your two GPU's cost more than my whole rig. You want a law of diminishing returns, look no further. How much actual difference to gameplay does that kind of GPU make? The ability to run 100fps at 4k? Why don't you sell one of the cards and play @ 1440? Is it really so much better now that you have spent the extra $1100 or so on FE cards?

Of course this is your choice to make, and I wouldn't mind having your GPU's. But I can overclock with a C2D and a GTX560 so what I have is more than what I need for what I like to do.. just as what you have is more than what you need for what you like to do.

A 6950X would be slightly useful to me as I like to mess with cad programs, but not so much that I would ever spend the money on one, not new anyway. I'm not up for changing platforms right now anyway, I like what I have. I would love the extra points for one, but it will have to wait until one day I feel the urge to buy myself a present.

Your game is BF4 or whatever.. my game is overclocking. I spend less money on my game than you do on yours. I support your choices, they are what turns you on. What turns me on is getting an extra couple hundred points better on a bench than I did the last time with the same rig. Each to their own.

If the truth be known, I could probably use an i3 and onboard graphics for what I NEED... just like my wifes Haswell rig. What I WANT though is what matters to me, and clearly to you to. We just have different wants.

I'm still struggling to understand why you think overclocking is only about gaming, and how I'm off topic in the Kaby Lake/Skylake Overclocking, Info, Delid Guide and Owners thread.
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Old 25th March 2017, 8:17 AM   #592
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Let's go back to the beginning, because this conversation has gone off on so many tangents.
The reason I posted those scores was not to brag, even though you made it sound like i was.
To me, what I wanted to understand by running the benchmarks I did was: Would a 5GHz CPU come in handy if GPU's weren't a constraint.
That turned out to be false.
Whilst the gains from overclocking are clearly visible in CPU intensive apps like Cinebench, they are not so clear when running 4k content. The gains are higher when running 1080p content, but what is the point of running 1080p content at 500 fps when you can run it at 4k (with greater detail) at over 100 fps.
So whilst SLI 1080ti's seems like overkill to you, they are still a bottleneck for 4k enthusiasts out there.
However, to state that an SLI setup is an area of diminishing returns is not completely true. Sure, not all applications will scale well in SLI, everyone knows that, but the gains are there to be had (especially in higher resolutions):



I'm not much of gamer myself these days because I dont have much time to game. And no, im not a BF4 fan, I actually don't like FPSs at all. They dont ring my bell.

And yes, you did go off topic, because I talked about the diminishing returns of overclocking kaby lake for 3d applications in an environment where GPU's aren't a bottleneck, and you went off about how I will care when non-reference PCB's start coming out beating my scores.
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Old 25th March 2017, 4:26 PM   #593
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I can't agree with you. Cities Skylines, going from stock to 5Ghz saw me go from 27FPS -> 30FPS in a heavy zoomed-in scene. Adjusted on the fly for comparison. It certainly makes a difference where CPU is the sole limiting factor The ~11% increase in clock speed lead to a direct 11% performance gain.
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Old Yesterday, 12:17 AM   #594
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Oh definitely. But that's happening for two reasons....

1) Cities Skylines is a very CPU intensive game
2) 3 fps is much more noticeable when you're struggling to get 30 fps than 60 fps.

Just to show you the other end of the spectrum, here are some benchmarks i did today for Ghost Warrior Wildlands. Differences are negligible.

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Old Yesterday, 2:26 PM   #595
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The difference of going from 4.5 - 5Ghz will be negligible in most games currently, as most games are currently GPU bound - not CPU bound.

There are exceptions, where games like Cities Skylines, Attila Total War and some others do see notable FPS increases from CPU clock speed and/or core count.

What the future holds - who knows. It's certainly not going to hurt to be running an extra 500Mhz on your CPU
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Old Today, 1:32 PM   #596
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You're only talking about 10% gains at best and that would be in cpu limited situations, currently most games never get to that point with a 7700k @ 4.5ghz.

I like the 5ghz number but year it's kind of disappointing going to all that effort for very little real world gain. It's not like the days of old when you could get a good 20-30% boost from overclocking.
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