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Old 17th October 2017, 5:05 PM   #31
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If I had to take a gamble, Cisco? I've heard they've done really well in the Mac space and have a pretty successful CYOD program
Nope, but I've also heard a similar thing about Cisco (a mate works there in one of the US offices). They seem to be pretty flexible but I don't know how they deal with it.
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Old 17th October 2017, 5:10 PM   #32
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That's actually really reasonable. I don't think management would go for that kind of solution here (they're of the belief that our users' would struggle with the concept of two cables). I might have to keep that in mind moving forward.

I'm trying to find someone who will let me plug their MBP into a Lenovo TBT3 dock to see what happens, but no-one seems keen (given its their personal device, I can't force them either).
My current setup looks like this :





My cables are a mess at the moment because we've just moved desks and the guys haven't done all the cabling yet so I'm just leaving it messy until it is all done

I haven't investigated daisy chaining the displays yet, but I believe it is possible with these monitors but I'm not sure about the macbook and/or if I have the correct cables on hand.

In my ideal world there would be a business monitor just like the U2717D but with thunderbolt 3.eleventymillion that included a bunch of USB/USB-C ports and an ethernet adaptor built-in. Maybe even some speakers/audio jacks. That was the singular good thing about the thunderbolt cinema display, it had reasonable speakers. Rest was shit.
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Old 17th October 2017, 8:24 PM   #33
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Aside from the Surfaces, have you tried any TBT3 docks with both a supported Mac and PC device? I'm hoping this will become a universal standard
Good feedback so far on OWC's unit...
https://www.owcdigital.com/products/usb-c-dock
...which we have been trialling although additional legacy LCDs need to be connected separately.

Have tested Lenovo's & Targus's newer USB-C offerings & same compatibility issues with MacOS / DisplayLink
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Old 17th October 2017, 10:54 PM   #34
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Just decommissioned the last ones.

Mac Pro (2011) models replaced with brand new Lenovo ThinkCentre P910's.

Lots of media work.

It's a shame Apple left this space, but that said the new ThinkCentres are pretty swish.
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Old 18th October 2017, 10:24 AM   #35
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Huzzah! I have daisy-chained the displays

That is all.
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Old Yesterday, 8:33 AM   #36
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Huzzah! I have daisy-chained the displays

That is all.
How did you manage that, Display Port between the displays and then USB to the MBP?

Also, do you find having the "third" monitor, (being your MBP display) being enabled more beneficial than just using the two monitors?

Your setup is very similar to mine with a few minor exceptions, my monitors are mounted on monitor arms, and my mechanical keyboard has no "letters" on any of the keys, rather than the stealth mode you have.

Well and truly off topic now, but what switches do you have at work? I used to have browns, with 5mm O rings on the key keycaps, but there were too many complaints, so I've now upgraded my home keyboard, and brought my MX Red's to work (again with the 5mm O rings).

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Originally Posted by Dr Kildare View Post
Good feedback so far on OWC's unit...
https://www.owcdigital.com/products/usb-c-dock
...which we have been trialling although additional legacy LCDs need to be connected separately.

Have tested Lenovo's & Targus's newer USB-C offerings & same compatibility issues with MacOS / DisplayLink
While that OWC dock looks interesting, it doesn't appear to use thunderbolt 3, but rather only USB-C, which won't have enough bandwidth for my situation (10gbps vs 40gbps). All our dual monitor systems are greater than 1920x1080, which means non native resolutions when restricted to USB-C.
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Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM   #37
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How did you manage that, Display Port between the displays and then USB to the MBP?

Also, do you find having the "third" monitor, (being your MBP display) being enabled more beneficial than just using the two monitors?

Your setup is very similar to mine with a few minor exceptions, my monitors are mounted on monitor arms, and my mechanical keyboard has no "letters" on any of the keys, rather than the stealth mode you have.

Well and truly off topic now, but what switches do you have at work? I used to have browns, with 5mm O rings on the key keycaps, but there were too many complaints, so I've now upgraded my home keyboard, and brought my MX Red's to work (again with the 5mm O rings).

Yes, the U2717D has a DP-out; I've got a DP-mDP cable going from one screen to the other. Same idea with the USB, chain the 2 monitors together then use one USB lead to connect to the laptop.

I use my 3rd screen a lot. I have my JIRA and IM type stuff on there. I do automated web front-end test development so having a shitload of screen real estate is very handy, more often than not I'll have half a screen dedicated to a test window and then a screen and a half to VS2017.

As for switches, on this floor we all use brown switches except for those typing on macbooks. We're all nerds though so no complaints.
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Old Yesterday, 2:36 PM   #38
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Yes. 200+ digital artists and producers on a various range of Mac Pro and MacBook hardware.


This too, with freelancers and contractors.


There are plenty. But Mac is not Windows, and you often can't use the same tools, which means retraining.


You can. But Mac is not Windows, and you often can't use the same tools, which means retraining.


It can. But Mac is not Windows, and you often can't use the same tools, which means retraining.

Pardon me repeating the same thing over and over, but if you've invested thousands in tools to manage a Windows ecosystem, the "fault" does not lie with Mac that you can't manage it with Windows tools.

For the record, our OS deployment goes

60% Linux
39% Mac
1% Windows

We have separate deployment and management tools for each OS. Why? Because there is no one tool to rule them all (sorry Kaseya fans, there really isn't). Extra effort for I.T.? Sure. But infinite flexibility for our business, and that's the price we pay for the benfit.
You've nailed it - But what's stopping more places from doing the same?

How does the TCO stack up in your organisation?
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Old Yesterday, 2:55 PM   #39
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You've nailed it - But what's stopping more places from doing the same?
99% of IT people in Australia are Windows admins, because that's been the status quo since the 90s. The problem has never been the technology. The problem has always been people's perceptions of the technology.

I can fix computers. I can't fix people.

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How does the TCO stack up in your organisation?
Warning: rant incoming.

In my not so humble opinion, the TCO of Linux shits on everything else. In my subjective experience across 50+ different organisations I've assisted in the last two decades, every single time I've ripped out a chunk of Windows infrastructure to put in Linux infrastructure, the volume of people required to keep it running has been dramatically lower due to its design.

Now, the Windows crew will be here in a second to tell you that it's not Windows' fault that shitty installs exist, and that they've seen plenty of shitty Linux installs. And the point is fair. And a certain subset of the Windows crew will also say that I'm an arrogant prick when I say that Linux's difficulty curve tends to keep away the lower end of the intelligence pool. That point is fair too.

Windows is now finally beginning to offer the deployment, management and orchestration tools that Linux has had forever. And sure, rolling out a few hundred Windows desktops in a homogenised environment has never been difficult. But that's not orchestration. Orchestration is recipe-based deployment where you tell a system what tasks you want to do, and it builds machines and operating systems to match. Images are dead, highly customisation (down to the package) deployments are what we want in 2017, and we can finally do that with Microsoft tools.

But, you're still paying out the nose for licensing. There's a bunch of administrative shit you have deal with that's not humans solving direct business problems, but rather humans ensuring that the business solutions you've put in place are accounted for and licenses are paid. Now, call me old school, because I've been doing this before Windows was as ubiquitous as it is today, but that's horse shit. I want to be scaling up and down my systems requirements on a whim without some sort of paperwork overhead bullshit.

So, back to your question: how does the TCO stack up? Well for Linux (desktop and server), it's awesome. We've got a handful of really smart people here, and they get 100 times the shit done compared to other organisations, and without all of the book keeping needed for a Microsoft environment. For Mac, they're desktops only, so the license is the computer, and the computer is all we really care about. One person does the bulk of the hardware procurement, and the Linux guys look after the software side because it's similar enough to Linux to barely be a blip on the radar.

And then there's Windows. And while the size of the team that manages it is comparable to any other place I've worked in for ratio of humans to computers, it's far worse TCO compared to the rest of our environment.

Ditto for a couple of jobs ago where I worked in big finance. The 80/20 rule was in full swing there - 20% of the infrastructure was UNIX/Linux, handled by 3 staff, and delivered 80% of the business profit. 80% of the business was Windows, it had an enormous team (I think 40+ across all areas) dealing with all the associated bits and pieces, and delivered 20% of the business profit.

So again, subjectively and directly related to the businesses I've worked in, the TCO is in favour of UNIX based operating systems - and not by small numbers. Would it be the same for yours? I dunno. I've not often found a business that couldn't switch over, but as I said waaay back in the first bit of this post, it's not typically the technology that's the problem. Ask yourself how you'd feel if your org went Linux/Mac overnight, with proven business benefit. Would you go with the flow, or would you fight it? And why? Some navel gazing will quickly answer the question as to why so few places do it.
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Old Yesterday, 3:02 PM   #40
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That's interesting - I wonder if that correlates to a more competent user electing to use Macs / more robust user requirements / or the 80:20 rule where the the majority of Windows users are fine, it's a few imbeciles who keep everyone busy...
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Old Yesterday, 3:15 PM   #41
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That's interesting - I wonder if that correlates to a more competent user electing to use Macs / more robust user requirements / or the 80:20 rule where the the majority of Windows users are fine, it's a few imbeciles who keep everyone busy...
What I've found in my limited experience is that Windows has an enormous install base of what we refer to as "enterprise shitware" - i.e.: ancient, domain-specific software that crashes when you install a security patch, let alone a service pack, let alone a supported version of Windows.

Compare and contrast to most Mac-based businesses who use a far higher volume of modern tools or cloud services, and don't have legacy requirements dating back decades.

That factor impedes an enormous volume of businesses who invested in heavily proprietary tools years ago, and are now at the mercy of their vendors.
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Old Yesterday, 3:18 PM   #42
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What I've found in my limited experience is that Windows has an enormous install base of what we refer to as "enterprise shitware" - i.e.: ancient, domain-specific software that crashes when you install a security patch, let alone a service pack, let alone a supported version of Windows.

Compare and contrast to most Mac-based businesses who use a far higher volume of modern tools or cloud services, and don't have legacy requirements dating back decades.

That factor impedes an enormous volume of businesses who invested in heavily proprietary tools years ago, and are now at the mercy of their vendors.
I think the bigger issue is legacy applications not being updated - ever. Because effort.

We run MS systems here and there are modern equivalents of everything we used to run - and shock horror we just yah know, updated.
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