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Old 9th February 2017, 7:18 PM   #31
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i used to play pool of radiance and moria on a system very similar to this one back in the day... when VESA was all the rage... oh the memories *sigh*
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Old 24th February 2017, 11:22 AM   #32
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I remember hav ing a 2MB Tseng Labs ET6000 video card. One of my first PCI video cards after my old ISA cards. Now I have 2GB video card.. Amazing how the times change..
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Old 19th April 2017, 11:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMic View Post
I would like to find a genuine IBM keyboard for it at some point but somehow I doubt that will be an easy task.
I have a couple, you can't have the "correct" one from my 5150 but it's rubbish anyway, the layout is odd and some of the keys don't work properly.

But I have a couple of old Model M's and a Model F, any of which should be fine. I'll keep at least one or 2 but I think I have 5+.

Love your project and others like it:

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Originally Posted by JustRight View Post
Very nice mate. It is always great to see these old machines up and running.

If you are interested check out my thread from 10 years ago about my own IBM PC XT. A 1986 model which I still have and is still a working system!
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=509859

Or, my genuine IBM 'portable', which I also still have and is also still functional.
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=840217


Cheers.
Yep I'm glad I'm not the only one still keen on these old things - bYrd has a thread about meet-ups so I'm hoping something gets off the ground in Melbourne

Also I've got a bucketload of the original software that came with my 5150, so if you need a copy of any of the programs I can try to assist - although I will have to find my stash of 360kb DD disks

Now just gotta track down an IBM 5100
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Old 20th May 2017, 1:07 AM   #34
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"condition close to scrap" it looked pretty good to me? Dusty for sure but I've seen way worse.
Probably should have phrased that differently. The machine was and is certainly serviceable, not scrap, but to its previous owner it was. When I collected it, it was stacked with some scrap metal ATX cases.

The components inside were all good, but the paintwork on the bottom of the case was worn through in some places and thin in others. There were some bare metal scratches and scuffs, an invitation for rust, and it did need some work to return it to a satisfactory condition.

Still, not a condition close to scrap. Anyone that knew what it was would have considered it more than serviceable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicthemouse View Post
I have a couple, you can't have the "correct" one from my 5150 but it's rubbish anyway, the layout is odd and some of the keys don't work properly.

But I have a couple of old Model M's and a Model F, any of which should be fine. I'll keep at least one or 2 but I think I have 5+.
Wouldn't happen to have some of those around still by chance?

I've been out of this project for a while for various reasons but figured it was time to start looking into it again. A suitable keyboard would absolutely be welcome.

Eventually I'll need to look into an alternative storage option as well. The Seagate ST-412 is a brilliant drive and a piece of history in itself, but the bearings inside the motor have seen better days and occasionally it does whine when it's warmed up. Seems to be relatively common on the older Seagates, not sure if it's something that could be repaired with some micro-surgery to the motor assembly or whether another drive is the best option.

If another drive was needed, I wouldn't mind something like a Seagate ST-225, but anything from around the era will suffice. Beggars can't be choosers, but as is mandatory with these MFM drives, the louder the seek noises, the better.


I did come across a somewhat better monitor for it as well. An IBM 8513 Colour VGA. It's not the original monitor, and is intended to match the newer IBM Personal System/2, but it suits the machine better than the LCD previously connected to it.



(Not my picture, but you get the idea.)

Last edited by iMic; 20th May 2017 at 1:20 AM.
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Old 24th May 2017, 12:53 PM   #35
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Wouldn't happen to have some of those around still by chance?

I've been out of this project for a while for various reasons but figured it was time to start looking into it again. A suitable keyboard would absolutely be welcome.
Yeah still got 'em all, at last count there was:
1x Model F Extended Layout (keeping that)
2x Model M Extended Layout (both have 5-pin connectors but I think one is XT protocol and one is AT protocol?)
1x Model M PS/2 (keeping that also)

There might also be one more, pretty sure I had 5

For your system I think you'd need the XT-based Extended Layout Model M, if that suits, PM me with a price and if we can come to an agreement, I can test it out and send it over to you
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Old 28th May 2017, 12:47 AM   #36
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For your system I think you'd need the XT-based Extended Layout Model M, if that suits, PM me with a price and if we can come to an agreement, I can test it out and send it over to you
PM sent.


I purchased some extra bits and pieces earlier this evening. At least, I expected a few pieces, but ended up with somewhat more than that.



The IBM XT is a chassis modified to house a newer ATX board. It's a decent modification as well, complete with 3.5" HDD mounts and a slot-load CDROM drive mounted inside the 5.25" Floppy. The enclosure has been cut and drilled, so not much to work with there, but it does come complete with case screws, plastics and brackets that will complete the good XT case, along with spares.

The second machine is an XT Clone. This machine is mostly complete, needing only some various parts, cards and screws to complete it. Because it's an interesting machine, I'll probably restore this one too. I have spare drives, cards and components from my travels in sourcing parts for the original XT, so this should be a relatively easy process. It contains a Siemens SAB8086-2-P processor with an Intel C8087-2 FPU (Ceramic Package). The Intel FPU would probably serve well in the genuine XT, but I'll see what happens.




Western Digital MFM/RLL controller cards. I've been searching for these for a while now. They should be compatible with the Seagate ST-213 I have stored away, so it'll be interesting to see if it works.




These are the most exciting pieces of cork I've ever had. These are replacement case feet for the IBM XT and Model M keyboards. The XT enclosure needed some of these after repainting, but I didn't expect to find a set made to genuine specifications and from the same material. Very cool.

Alongside them is a set of genuine IBM MFM cables as spares, and a LaserROM card that - from what I can tell - is a CDROM drive controller.


Now, onto the really good stuff...



What do we have here...



Aha! An XT-IDE!

This allows a CompactFlash card or IDE HDD to be used as a bootable drive or data transfer drive between the IBM XT and a newer machine. Very nifty.


Something I forgot to take pictures of (and now that I'm ready for bed, can't be arsed doing it), is the mouse I picked up. It's a Microsoft InPort Bus Mouse and InPort Controller Card.




Looking forward to testing some of this equipment out.

Last edited by iMic; 28th May 2017 at 1:44 AM.
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Old 28th May 2017, 5:14 AM   #37
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My parents had almost exactly this model when i was born (1983). I inherited it due to being the only person knowing how to use it. I trashed it as a kid when it was superceded by newer models. I wish I had kept it either as is or for a desktop build one day. Good work btw!
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Old 28th May 2017, 9:44 AM   #38
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Nice score! Great to see more XT's in the world still getting some love.

It's interesting to see the early XT clones and how much of a "clone" they are compared to later XT's which branched off into different designs. That one sort of follows the same IBM PC/XT look in terms of drive placement, but I've seen others which look almost identical to the original IBM PC/XT that at first glance you'd think it was! Quite literally a clone in every sense. Cheeky buggers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iMic View Post
These are the most exciting pieces of cork I've ever had. These are replacement case feet for the IBM XT and Model M keyboards. The XT enclosure needed some of these after repainting, but I didn't expect to find a set made to genuine specifications and from the same material. Very cool.
Where did you get these from? I could do with some replacements.

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Aha! An XT-IDE!

This allows a CompactFlash card or IDE HDD to be used as a bootable drive or data transfer drive between the IBM XT and a newer machine. Very nifty.
Very cool! FYI for anyone interested in doing this there are alternative ways of using XT-IDE with components you may have already. If you have a card which has a boot ROM such as a Network card, you can burn the XT-IDE BIOS onto a EPROM chip and utilise it's socket to boot the ROM. Then all you need is a IDE controller card (doesn't matter if it's 16-bit ISA) and the XT-IDE BIOS will pick it up and detect whatever you have attached to it. Can be a very cost effective way of using XT-IDE without having to spend $70+ on the card.
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Old 29th May 2017, 2:57 AM   #39
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Where did you get these from? I could do with some replacements.
The person I bought the other machines from happened to have some around, so I was rather fortunate in that regard, but I believe he had them custom made by a business specialising in making gaskets.

The machine feet are 40mm diameter / 3mm thick, and the keyboard feet are 15mm diameter / 2mm thick.



A small progress report. I opened the Clone XT's power supply to service it, and while the outside label says "American", the internals certainly say "Taiwanese". It isn't a terrible power supply, but it needed some repairs to the solder joints on the 240v inlet.

I ended up having to trim back the wires, wick up the old solder and start fresh. It certainly holds a lot better now, and a quick continuity test with the multimeter shows we're good to go. Also, in case I haven't mentioned it before, I hate solder flux. Still scrubbing that stuff off my hands.




I transferred the Intel 8087 math coprocessor into the IBM XT, installed the XT-IDE, cleaned up the exterior of the case and finished replacing all the screws with the IBM hex-head slotted originals.

Still need to make a template for positioning the feet and affix those, transfer the plastic cap from the donor shell to the restored shell, reaffix the factory labels and case badges, source a CGA-VGA breakout converter, install the Microsoft InPort Bus Card, make an OPL2 AdLib compatible sound card and install some software on the machine.

All with time, of course.

Last edited by iMic; 29th May 2017 at 3:07 AM.
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Old 29th May 2017, 7:59 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by iMic View Post
The person I bought the other machines from happened to have some around, so I was rather fortunate in that regard, but I believe he had them custom made by a business specialising in making gaskets.

The machine feet are 40mm diameter / 3mm thick, and the keyboard feet are 15mm diameter / 2mm thick.
Ah ok. I thought you might of found someone selling some on another forum I didn't know about. There were some being sold on VCF quite a few years back, interestingly they said they found a couple of hole punches at a hobby store which were the right size to do it yourself.
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Old 29th May 2017, 8:19 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Flamin Joe View Post
Very cool! FYI for anyone interested in doing this there are alternative ways of using XT-IDE with components you may have already. If you have a card which has a boot ROM such as a Network card, you can burn the XT-IDE BIOS onto a EPROM chip and utilise it's socket to boot the ROM. Then all you need is a IDE controller card (doesn't matter if it's 16-bit ISA) and the XT-IDE BIOS will pick it up and detect whatever you have attached to it. Can be a very cost effective way of using XT-IDE without having to spend $70+ on the card.
Thanks, I'll file that away for when the time comes

Quote:
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At least, I expected a few pieces, but ended up with somewhat more than that.

(snip)

Looking forward to testing some of this equipment out.
Nice score!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamin Joe View Post
Ah ok. I thought you might of found someone selling some on another forum I didn't know about. There were some being sold on VCF quite a few years back, interestingly they said they found a couple of hole punches at a hobby store which were the right size to do it yourself.
+1, good info, the feet on my 5150 are in resaonable shape but I could do with some for the various IBM keyboards in my stockpile. Could possibly cut them out of a sheet of cork with a hole saw but the edges wouldn't be as clean
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Old 1st June 2017, 1:55 AM   #42
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I've attached the new feet. Using a rusty but unmodified IBM XT chassis as the reference, I made some cardboard templates to ensure the feet were attached in exactly the right spot, and at the correct distance from each corner. I'll take a picture soon.

The Microsoft InPort card is installed, and I've run some extra power cabling for the XT-IDE, but the inside of the case is a mess and could still use some tidying.

And the Seagate ST-412 came out of the machine. The motor needs work, a fresh set of bearings at least which would require a complete disassembly. The gap between the motor and drive casing is filled with dirty grease (a previous attempt to quieten it down), so the motor would need to be stripped out to properly clean it up and address this anyway.

The difficult decision is whether to disassemble the assembly in an attempt to repair it, considering how rare and expensive these drives are, or whether I should simply sell it on to someone who would keep it as a collectors piece. I'm leaning toward this option, simply because the drive in its current form can be cleaned up and still works, albeit it's noisy at times. Attempting to rebuild it likely wouldn't end well, and another piece of history would end up as scrap. Live and let live, ol' Seagate.


The upside however is that the MiniScribe 8425 is back in the machine. This drive is a mechanical marvel, with zero defective sectors and a perfect motor assembly after 29 years. It's the original drive from this machine, and it makes those unique seek noises that are so common with MFM drives. It's as happy as a clam, if clams could store data and were IBM compatible. The rotating assembly weighs considerably less, so the bearings are in much better shape, and it draws less power from the IBM's old power supply. Win, win, win.

The drawback is it still needs some repairs to the wiring (HDD Activity LED) and the fitment inside the case isn't as good as the Seagate. The ST-412 sits flush with the front bezel when mounted, but the MiniScribe sits forward about half a millimetre - or enough to notice a gap. But overall, these issues are minor and easily resolved compared to the issues plaguing the Seagate.


I'll continue to look for MFM drives and should any come around, I'll likely snap them up so I have something to work with. I still haven't ruled out sourcing a Seagate ST-225 at some point, because it's almost iconic at this point and would look (and sound) excellent in this build.

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Old 1st June 2017, 9:55 AM   #43
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The upside however is that the MiniScribe 8425 is back in the machine. This drive is a mechanical marvel, with zero defective sectors and a perfect motor assembly after 29 years. It's the original drive from this machine, and it makes those unique seek noises that are so common with MFM drives. It's as happy as a clam, if clams could store data and were IBM compatible.
And this, my friends, is why I love OCAU.

Good work! keep it up.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 12:38 AM   #44
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And this, my friends, is why I love OCAU.

Good work! keep it up.
If I come up with something amusing, I like to throw it in there.

Also, thanks!


I managed to carefully remove the plastic cap from the underside of the damaged IBM case, and cleaned it up in preparation for installation in the good shell.




The underside of the case is now basically complete, with fresh paint, new feet and the plastic features refitted.

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Old 4th June 2017, 6:32 PM   #45
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Impressive and thorough work - Props to you

FWIW we lost a lot of drives in the 80's to bearing failure. Manufacturers just hadn't worked out how to construct, seal and lubricate thrust ball bearings with the necessary tolerances, whilst simultaneously accepting temperature-induced tolerance changes. It wasn't until fluid-dynamic bearings came along that the problem was conclusively solved. They would start with a distinctive "whirr" and then develop "stiction" problems where they would seize when cold - exacerbated by the introduction of teflon coating on drive platters. These would spin out to thicker layers at the edge over time, and the R/W heads would settle into the coating when powered off and parked, and then seize in place.

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