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Old 10th February 2014, 7:45 PM   #61
AthlonMan
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Microsoft just have to keep doing what they've been doing for the decades. Produce the Windows desktop. Windows beats seven shades of shit out of Linux and Apple in the home desktop area and will do a loooong time yet. It won't do it forever, so they might as well make hay will the sun shines.

Stop trying to be Apple, stop trying to compete in the tablet arena.
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Old 10th February 2014, 8:27 PM   #62
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Microsoft just have to keep doing what they've been doing for the decades.
I'm actually hoping that Satya Nadella is going to take to company into whole new directions with their products/licensing/eval/technet/activation.

A lot less of this kind of CEO'ing has to be a good thing.
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Old 11th February 2014, 7:53 AM   #63
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Wow, this really caught me by surprise.

WinSuperSite by it's very name has always been pro-Windows. It's pretty clear the folks who run it love the software (and for the slow of wit, no, they're not zealots, just fans).

Today I see this in my RSS feed:
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/wh...pening-windows

Some pretty damning comments about Windows 8, and the impact Steven Sinofsky in particular had on Microsoft. It appears as if he was picked to try and be Microsoft's answer to Steve Jobs:

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After watching Windows Vista get mismanaged and then slapped around by Apple, it tapped Steven Sinofsky to reimagine Windows. It's fair to say that this man shares many of the same character traits—and flaws—that defined Steve Jobs. He was belligerent and one-sided, didn't work well with others, had no qualms about tossing out features and technologies that didn't originate with his group, and had absolutely zero respect for customer feedback. Here, finally, was a guy who could push through a Steve Jobs-style, singular product vision.

And he did. Sadly, the result was Windows 8.
And if their position wasn't clear enough after that:

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The reason this happened is that while Sinofsky had the maniacal power and force of will of a Steve Jobs, he lacked Jobs' best gift: An innate understanding of good design. Windows 8 is not well-designed. It's a mess. But Windows 8 is a bigger problem than that. Windows 8 is a disaster in every sense of the word.

This is not open to debate, is not part of some cute imaginary world where everyone's opinion is equally valid or whatever. Windows 8 is a disaster. Period.
Again, reminding people of the domain name from where this is quoted: WinSuperSite.com.

They make it pretty obvious they are convinced both Sinofsky and Ballmer didn't leave on their own accord, and were removed due to the failure that was Windows 8. We as the public will never know the truth, but shareholder reaction to both has not been kind.

The final line sums up for me the feelings I've had about Microsoft for quite some time:

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You can't please everybody, Microsoft. So stop trying. It's time to double down on the people who actually use your products, not some mythical group of consumers who will never stop using their simpler Android and iOS devices just because you wish they would.
I've said for a long time that Microsoft clearly try to be everything to everyone, and end up with an OS that is half-arsed for everyone. There's an old joke that says "a camel is horse designed by committee". This article states quite clearly that Windows is an OS designed by a committee. I'll repeat what I've said before countless times: Microsoft management need to take away some of the red tape, and let the very brilliant people working for them do what they do best: write good software.

If Microsoft stopped trying to be everything for everyone, and instead concentrated on being the best option in their niche, the quality of their products would skyrocket. I just hope their new CEO is aware of what's happening outside of Microsoft, because to date the "not invented here" ideology of every leader that company has had ended up with some sort of long-term negative impact on their products.
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Old 11th February 2014, 8:20 AM   #64
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zero respect for customer feedback
I've always felt over the years that this is correct and largely MS has ignored what their customers actually want. Never really quite been able to understand why that was.
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Old 11th February 2014, 8:34 AM   #65
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based on this thread im the only person who likes windows 8 in the entire universe.

Thinking back through the OS' I have used (from 3.1) I do believe that Windows 7 was the easiest to use, although this may have something to do with years of conditioning to the Microsoft way.

Windows 8 has brought about a different way of doing things, most of which i quite like and enjoy using, some not so much (like disabling UAC).

Saying that I do use W8 on a Dell XPS12 which has the touch screen which may or may not skew my view on the OS.
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Old 11th February 2014, 8:44 AM   #66
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Saying that I do use W8 on a Dell XPS12 which has the touch screen which may or may not skew my view on the OS.
As I said in the Win 8 thread, I have given it a go, I have come in with an open mind thinking all the haters were just hating for the sake of hate...

But it is optimized for touchscreen.

I have a $6k+ watercooled, overclocked beast of a machine - but the OS is made for a tablet.

I understand that they were just trying to consolidate so we would use it on our home computers, our laptops and our phones... but it just doesn't work.

And I do not have high hopes for Windows 9.
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Old 11th February 2014, 8:48 AM   #67
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I've always felt over the years that this is correct and largely MS has ignored what their customers actually want. Never really quite been able to understand why that was.
But when Microsoft get it right they really get it right, Windows 7 is a triumph and we can't forget that. The good things from 8 need to be bolted onto 7 and we can have our Windows 9.
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Old 11th February 2014, 8:54 AM   #68
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But when Microsoft get it right they really get it right, Windows 7 is a triumph and we can't forget that. The good things from 8 need to be bolted onto 7 and we can have our Windows 9.
I love a good MS OS, pity they really only come every second iteration.
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Old 11th February 2014, 8:57 AM   #69
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I love a good MS OS, pity they really only come every second iteration.
true, but don't forget the good ones last a long time - XP will be something like 13 years old when the pin gets pulled in a couple of months 7 is already 7 years old.
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Old 11th February 2014, 8:58 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by elvis View Post
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/wh...pening-windows

Some pretty damning comments about Windows 8, and the impact Steven Sinofsky in particular had on Microsoft. It appears as if he was picked to try and be Microsoft's answer to Steve Jobs:
Grain of Salt required to digest that article.

Bloggers in general, and Paul Thrurrott in particular, did not like Sinofsky, and his site Did a complete 180, from Fanboi to Anti-Fanboi at the exact same time Sinofsky stopping feeding bloggers.

Basically, Sinofsky directed MS to stop answering technical questions from bloggers, as a result, all they could blog about was the same press releases that everyone else had already copy/pasta'd. Most bloggers accepted it, Thurrott took it as a personal slight... and has had an axe to grind ever since.


I don't disagree with some of his points, I just think he could have had a bit more integrity while making them. Posting opinion as fact works on the forums... when you are trying to be an impartial journalist... not so much.
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Old 11th February 2014, 9:11 AM   #71
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Microsoft management need to take away some of the red tape, and let the very brilliant people working for them do what they do best: write good software.
MS has a very large number of very brilliant people working for them. They also have a very large number of people whose only job description seems to be being brilliant at taking the first brilliance and fucking it.

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Saying that I do use W8 on a Dell XPS12 which has the touch screen which may or may not skew my view on the OS.
I have an Intel x64 based tablet and I still hate Metro.

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The good things from 8 need to be bolted onto 7 and we can have our Windows 9.
Wrong way around - under the hood, W8 has some really nice improvements. Need to keep the 8 chassis and put the 7 dashboard on it. Hell, I'd like it if they'd take a leaf out of the XP playbook and do 7 without all the stupid fucking wizards.

No, I don't want my user accounts/firewall/shares all reconfigured everytime I go to a strange LAN. Leave them alone!
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Old 11th February 2014, 9:36 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by MR CHILLED View Post
I've always felt over the years that this is correct and largely MS has ignored what their customers actually want. Never really quite been able to understand why that was.
The "every second OS" law of Microsoft is not so much a law as it is a result of Microsoft's arrogance.

They release an OS based on what customers want, it works. So then they get big headed, think they are bigger than their customer, fall into the "tell the customer what they want" trap, and get a rude awakening.

Rinse and repeat. Microsoft aren't the only victims of this hubris cycle. I see it every day with other software vendors too.

I saw a cute little sign the other day that said something along the lines of "the most powerful person in a business is not the CEO, but the customer. The customer can sack everyone in an entire company by simply spending their money somewhere else".

Microsoft aren't "too big to fail", but sometimes they think they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloEscobar View Post
Grain of Salt required to digest that article.

Bloggers in general, and Paul Thrurrott in particular, did not like Sinofsky, and his site Did a complete 180, from Fanboi to Anti-Fanboi at the exact same time Sinofsky stopping feeding bloggers.

Basically, Sinofsky directed MS to stop answering technical questions from bloggers, as a result, all they could blog about was the same press releases that everyone else had already copy/pasta'd. Most bloggers accepted it, Thurrott took it as a personal slight... and has had an axe to grind ever since.


I don't disagree with some of his points, I just think he could have had a bit more integrity while making them. Posting opinion as fact works on the forums... when you are trying to be an impartial journalist... not so much.
I didn't know the background story, but quite frankly I don't hold Sinofsky in very high regard either, so I don't blame their dislike for him. Between Sinofsky and Ballmer, Microsoft are stinging from some bad leadership.

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MS has a very large number of very brilliant people working for them. They also have a very large number of people whose only job description seems to be being brilliant at taking the first brilliance and fucking it.
Corporate middle management is an unfortunate consequence of modern capitalism.

As much as I'm a die-hard capitalist, I consider it important to critique the concept and weed out the parts that can cause it to fail.
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Old 11th February 2014, 9:52 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by elvis View Post
The "every second OS" law of Microsoft is not so much a law as it is a result of Microsoft's arrogance.

They release an OS based on what customers want, it works. So then they get big headed, think they are bigger than their customer, fall into the "tell the customer what they want" trap, and get a rude awakening.

Rinse and repeat. Microsoft aren't the only victims of this hubris cycle. I see it every day with other software vendors too.
See I don't agree with this.

Vista was an example of an OS that many thought was "rubbish" however Vista was essentially Windows 7 in many many ways and much better than XP on good hardware - you could as far as I was concerned blame vendors who chose to ship the OS on machines that were not capable of running it - HP Compaq shipped Vista on machines with 512MB of RAM just to try and fill a market segment, Windows XP runs on 512 but not well and lets not forget 98 ran "better" than XP on launch too as did 95 before it - Windows 7 was one of the only times an OS got "lighter".

ME often held up as "terrible" wasn't as bad as people claimed, it was faster than 98 before it but had issues with the cheap shit VIA platforms of the time - if you ran straight Intel - it was pretty good (not as good as 2k) but fast and good for gamers.

I blame vendors for many many driver issues as well not the OS's underneath. Vendors are lazy and they want to pump out the same shit year on year never updating drivers or firmware (that costs money!) to the point that Vista didn't get supported by many of them who then said "vista is shit" um no your product is half arsed. Then you had this scramble to support 7 by these same vendors when 7 took off like wildfire.

8 though, yeah that one is MS's fault through and through - garbage UI and let's face it it makes a lot of everyday users confused and mad when all they want to do is figure out how to make their new UI do stuff, like you know turn off.
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Old 11th February 2014, 9:53 AM   #74
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Vista was an example of an OS that many thought was "rubbish" however Vista was essentially Windows 7 in many many ways and much better than XP on good hardware
Vista was the public beta for Windows 7 that Microsoft were arrogant enough to consider charging full price for.

I'm certain the entire Windows 8 family will be considered the same in 5 years.

Last edited by elvis; 11th February 2014 at 9:57 AM.
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Old 11th February 2014, 9:59 AM   #75
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Vista was the public beta for Windows 7 that Microsoft were arrogant enough to consider charging full price for.

I'm certain the entire Windows 8 family will be considered the same in 5 years.
that's like saying Windows XP was a public beta for Windows 7.

both are NT variants.
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