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Old 12th March 2017, 5:54 PM   #16
KoroKoro Thread Starter
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never had driver issues. I suppose some people have (I dont know any personally), but they just roll back to previous stable driver.

time breakdown is a bit difficult as it depends on the project. Last project it was a good 2~3 week modelling, 2~3 weeks detail drafting. analysis and rendering is done as you design. But just to give you an idea, it took almost an hour to export the model as a 3D pdf.

I can't remember our current specs off the top of my head but its an i7 about 6 years old. 8 gigs of ram... which is no where near enough. we'll be getting at least 32gb.

The E5-1630 will still be better than what we have now but I don't see why we'd ask for an old Broadwell chip when we can just get their latest architecture :s

As for going outside of Autodesk, I'd say there is a 5% chance...
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Old 12th March 2017, 6:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by underskore View Post
just found this comment from the guy who did those performance review videos you linked


I'd never buy a Xeon for my home PC, but I'd always put a Xeon into an office workstation. Exactly the same applies to Quadros vs GeForce.
He says:

Quote:
Xeons can utilise ECC memory but that's not really much help to Inventor, it'll still crash out with or without ECC RAM.

The main difference is back in the labs. The Xeons go through much higher stress testing, because they're designed for 24/7 server use in mission critical environments, they have much more lab time behind them hence the price premium.
Last time I checked, I don't work over night or on weekends... So I don't really need a server grade cpu :s

I still haven't seen a compelling reason as to why you need to have Xeons and Quadros at the office, especially when our software wont use the extra processing power.

As he said earlier:
Quote:
It's a good demo of how clock speed is king for Inventor, a $2000 CPU was thrashed by a $300 i7
I don't really care that much for the price difference (can't be blamed for wasting their money), I just need the best performance.
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Old 12th March 2017, 6:42 PM   #18
underskore
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Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
I still haven't seen a compelling reason as to why you need to have Xeons and Quadros at the office, especially when our software wont use the extra processing power.
It's the same reason as it's always been... support. I've not been in the game long enough to have ever known a time when anything 'workstation' was faster.
If you use consumer hardware to run apps that only 'support' workstation hardware you're left with no one but yourself(and the internet) to help sort out any problems when/if they occur.

if you're doing the kind of work where those 20-30 second differences shown in those reviews are going to be a serious enough cost factor to forget about support then you might be able to make a business case for having a top of the line gaming machine with a middle of the road workstation sitting next to it as a failover.
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Old 12th March 2017, 7:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
Unfortunately this one doesn't seem to have the K series chip... so i'm guessing I am missing out of the factory 4.5GHz boost clock and some cache... Would it be possible to custom order that maybe?
Doesn't look like it, I'd suggest finding something else that does have a 7700K in it. I presume they don't offer it as an option because the motherboard probably doesn't support overclocking.

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Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
I also noticed the 7700K only has 16 pcie lanes... so I'm not sure how that is supposed to work with the nvme drive without kneecapping the link to the gpu.
Interesting question! I presume the GTX1080Ti is not (obviously) going to be used for shooters so the high bandwidth requirement is probably not needed. If you have other PCI-e slots on the motherboard that are X16 physical/X8 electrical or X16 physical/X4 electrical then you could try moving the video card over to a different slot and it may work just as well but sometimes some motherboards expect there to be a video card in that first X16 slot otherwise there can be problems. If this works you should have plenty of PCI-e lanes left over without much of a performance decrease.

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Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
Why do I need a workstation Xeon?
If you need ECC then only Xeon's support ECC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
Why do I need ECC ram?
So you don't get errors in your calculations, having said that I believe that most of your CAD software that runs on non-ECC systems can do the calculations twice to make sure it comes up with the correct figures. Quadro's, Tesla's and Firepro cards also can be selected to use onboard GPU RAM in either ECC or non-ECC mode for the same reason whereas consumer video cards don't have this option as they are non-ECC mode only.

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Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
Why do I need double point precision? What gpu would you go with?
I thought FP64 is used mostly for CUDA and not much use for CAD software

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Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
Is there a better performing CPU (for single core tasks) than the 7700K?
I don't think there is any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
Would only 16 pcie lanes kneecap the nvme drive?
See my previous answer about running the card in a different slot, other than that your only other alternative is a S2011-3 system and the fastest cpu is a 6850K 3.6GHz (4.0GHz Turbo), with 40 PCI-e lanes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroKoro View Post
Wouldn't that money saved be better allocated on ergonomics?
I'd suggest getting cases that are larger and with a lot of fans so they are quieter or if you want to buy quiet PC's then have a look here. The first GTX1080Ti's coming out are FE (Founders Edition) and as the GPU can pull 250 Watts you may want to wait a while and get the ones with aftermarket coolers which should be less noisy, although having said that I don't know whether they actually will do as much number crunching compared to playing a shooter so this aspect may not be an issue if the card is only loaded by the CAD software to say 10%-20% of maximum performance.

If you can choose your own RAM then you'd probably be better off with the fastest available you can get as it makes a big difference.
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Old 12th March 2017, 7:35 PM   #20
KoroKoro Thread Starter
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Ironically, I wouldn't be overclocking the 7700K.

7700 - 3.60 GHz base - 4.20 GHz boost
7700K - 4.20 GHz base - 4.50 GHz boost

The Dell cases have really really bad airflow... so making extra heat would be a problem. But as far as I can see, it is the same socket, so besides bios support, I don't see why they can't use it?

Same goes with partner card fans... a blower fan would be ideal as the case can't breathe. It seems we can only get products offered by Dell (excluding alienware)

Regarding pcie lanes... Inventor doesn't even use hardware acceleration so I guess its a moot question. Might be more important in the future though. As far as I know, Inventor is using Direct 3D. It used to be Open GL but not any more.

Re calculations: we very rarely do any FEA or CFD or any meshing for that matter. But if we do, if the machine has to re-compute for validation, I don't think its a problem.

But when you're waiting on commands that take 30~60 seconds... and a few hundred commands a day, it starts to feel like a waste of time.

I'll have to talk to some of my colegues re: support. We've never had "approved / supported" hardware anyway so I'm guessing they've never needed it to begin with.
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