Overclockers Australia Forums

OCAU News - Wiki - QuickLinks - Pix - Sponsors  

Go Back   Overclockers Australia Forums > Specific Hardware Topics > Business & Enterprise Computing

Notices


Sign up for a free OCAU account and this ad will go away!
Search our forums with Google:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21st March 2017, 3:39 PM   #22231
PabloEscobar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre_ View Post
In a Microsoft run Azure training session in Sydney.

So much misinformation, so much skimping over important stuff.


cloud first, mobile first.
PabloEscobar is offline   Reply With Quote

Join OCAU to remove this ad!
Old 21st March 2017, 3:59 PM   #22232
elvis Thread Starter
Old school old fool
 
elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 28,760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloEscobar View Post
cloud first, mobile first.
Can I put my mobile in the cloud?
__________________
Play old games with me!
elvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 4:03 PM   #22233
Luke212
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,880
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre_ View Post
In a Microsoft run Azure training session in Sydney.
So much misinformation, so much skimping over important stuff.
my statement the other day that teachers are useless.

why would anyone need to go to azure training? the info is out there. self learn ftw.

(no comment on you specifically! just generally)
__________________
Democracy's greatest trick was convincing man he was informed.
Luke212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 4:26 PM   #22234
Gunna
Member
 
Gunna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,166
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke212 View Post
my statement the other day that teachers are useless.

why would anyone need to go to azure training? the info is out there. self learn ftw.

(no comment on you specifically! just generally)
People learn in different ways. Some like to be able to get clarification on a topic straight away and ask follow up questions. Reading and learning are 2 different things. Just because I read something doesn't always mean I retain the information, especially if i'm 50 pages into a training book whose content is as dry as the Sahara. I'm a much better student if I can visualise the steps taken.
Gunna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 4:40 PM   #22235
Foliage
Member
 
Foliage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Sleepwithyourdadelaide
Posts: 31,711
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke212 View Post
my statement the other day that teachers are useless.

why would anyone need to go to azure training? the info is out there. self learn ftw.

(no comment on you specifically! just generally)
I agree. Just get a free account and start playing, best way to learn imo.
__________________
You know, if you watch Titanic backwards, it's actually a heart warming tale of a ship that jumps out of the water and saves lots of drowning people.
Foliage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 4:44 PM   #22236
Dre_
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 544
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke212 View Post
why would anyone need to go to azure training? the info is out there. self learn ftw.
Required to be able to deliver the courses next quarter.
Dre_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 4:47 PM   #22237
Luke212
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,880
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foliage View Post
I agree. Just get a free account and start playing, best way to learn imo.
a teacher can be useful for mentioning common traps and so on. but online guides do tend to bring up things like best practices anyway, at least ones from MS and Amazon.

i am curious if linux is as transparent in its online guides? this is one area having commercial backing might help to get that sort of information out there. when i try and work with linux it is very much blog based. which is frustrating for me. there might be info out there but hard for me to find on the quality level of MS.
__________________
Democracy's greatest trick was convincing man he was informed.
Luke212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 4:50 PM   #22238
Foliage
Member
 
Foliage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Sleepwithyourdadelaide
Posts: 31,711
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke212 View Post
i am curious if linux is as transparent in its online guides? this is one area having commercial backing might help to get that sort of information out there. when i try and work with linux it is very much blog based. which is frustrating for me. there might be info out there but hard for me to find on the quality level of MS.
Pay for redhat. I imagine it would be similar to Microsoft in terms of response and help.

The saying of you get what you pay for is almost always true when getting help for software. Free support is hit and miss unless you know where to look and have it half figured out already.
__________________
You know, if you watch Titanic backwards, it's actually a heart warming tale of a ship that jumps out of the water and saves lots of drowning people.
Foliage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 4:54 PM   #22239
Luke212
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,880
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foliage View Post
Pay for redhat. I imagine it would be similar to Microsoft in terms of response and help.
i dont ask MS for help though. i just look up the info for free. does buying redhat grant me access to a secret repository of info, or are you suggesting i have to pay a redhat teacher?
__________________
Democracy's greatest trick was convincing man he was informed.
Luke212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 4:58 PM   #22240
Foliage
Member
 
Foliage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Sleepwithyourdadelaide
Posts: 31,711
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke212 View Post
i dont ask MS for help though. i just look up the info. can i do that or are you suggesting i have to pay a redhat 'teacher'?
That is what MSDN is for. MS paid support is excellent. You'd hope so as well when it costs $10k a year. You don't pay a redhat teacher you get a corporate support contract instead... just like MS or any other large software company. You submit a support request and someone gives you the answer.

If you are reading man pages, stackoverflow and general free information it is all there but you have to find it. With paid support you go can "here is my problem that I've done literally zero research to find the answer and here is no background information, please tell me exactly what to do" and you get an answer.

I pay for devexpress support for example, its $1200 a year and I literally go "I can't make this work and I've made zero attempt to figure it out" and someone sends me a custom hand written visual studio example and links all the wiki pages for me with a 24 hour turn around. The alternative is I spend 1-2 days finding the wiki pages, trying things out, reading stack overflow. I end up with the same result but it takes 2-3x as long.

It's a massive time saver as they know where it all is off the top of their head. I've made about 20 requests in the last 4 months. At my equivalent hourly rate it has paid for itself several times over. I've learnt just as much as I still have to understand and implement their code I just don't waste time spinning my wheels finding the right information.
__________________
You know, if you watch Titanic backwards, it's actually a heart warming tale of a ship that jumps out of the water and saves lots of drowning people.

Last edited by Foliage; 21st March 2017 at 5:02 PM.
Foliage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 5:19 PM   #22241
disguisey
Member
 
disguisey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: under your bed
Posts: 1,852
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_death44 View Post
At least it's not midland... that tafe was terrible!
Heard pretty good things about Thornlie Tafe, its now the deciding between doing CCNA or doing a bachelors degree part time.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosaki View Post
They still have a city called Sydney? I thought all you lot moved out here to dig shit up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trop View Post
Guessing your about 17 with an old pulsar with a huge wing and a fart cannon? Sounds like the right mentality anyway.
disguisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 6:19 PM   #22242
looktall
Working Class Hero
 
looktall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: brabham.wa.au
Posts: 22,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by disguisey View Post
Heard pretty good things about Thornlie Tafe, its now the deciding between doing CCNA or doing a bachelors degree part time.
e-tech in fremantle is very good too.
at least it was when i went there some years ago.

they used to use MOC and CCNA as the basis of their courses and they had an official testing centre so you could do your exam on site as well.

presumably it's still the same.
looktall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 7:04 PM   #22243
mooboyj
Member
 
mooboyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 916
Default

Finally got the forms from Thornlie TAFE. Won't be starting the course tonight At least they were super helpful and actually answered my questions!
__________________
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation" Adolf Hitler Stephen Conroy
mooboyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 7:05 PM   #22244
trackhappy
Member
 
trackhappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Caboolture, QLD
Posts: 2,321
Default

Day two ended like all of my other ventures... failure.

They put me on for a couple days as a trial to see if I could replace an apparently rather skilled guy while he was away for 4 weeks. Towards the end of today I was told, hey look it's not working out, you're too green and we need someone with more experience. I said yup yup fair enough, was invited to stay the rest of the day, but I saw no point, packed my shit and fucked off. I have to return the shirts in the next couple days.

So what happened? Absolutely nothing. Once again I get the shit kicker jobs that no one wants to do, or jobs that no one needs to do, just busy work for the work experience kid. "Service" some random customer's laptop (whatever the fuck that means, the laptop just needed some updates, it was fine), find out why this UPS isn't working (it's a piece of shit), went along to some datacenter yesterday to plug two hard drives in (that I didn't get to do), and that's pretty much all I did.

I never got to touch a server, was never asked to do anything remotely akin to my abilities, then halfway through the day, sorry it's not working out, haven't had time to show you anything, you're too green, the guy was even more skilled than <some other bloke there>, etc etc... I felt like saying, you looked at my resume, you looked at my job history, you obviously need someone to help... and you don't let them help. seriously wtf?

So that's another two days wasted, my morale gone (again), a hundred dollars of fuel I didn't need to use, more wear and tear on a car with a fucked engine, I had to postpone the chat/interview for the job of my fucking dreams, because you apparently wanted me so badly.

I'm now back to square one, yet again. All IT feels like to me, is a merry-go-round of complete fuck-arounds, where the idea of employing someone and actually paying them is fucking taboo or something (no I will not see a cent for what I did.. like usual).

And yet I see posts on Facebook, Twitter, Whirlpool, here, fucking everywhere, of total and utter fuckwits in high places, and I am sitting here doing nothing, because no one will let me do anything, because no one seems to want to tell me what I am doing wrong and how I can fix it so I *can* be employed.

People complain about getting scraps from their hard work and employment - I can't even get the scraps. The work I have done, every time, has COST me money. I don't have money! If I could afford to work for free to get my foot in the door, I would, but I can't. I literally can't. I can not afford to give up my time for nothing. Petrol doesn't pay for itself, rent doesn't pay for itself, nor does food or anything else that requires some form of currency to acquire.

I'm so over this. I've done this dance a thousand times before, if this merry-go-round paid anything, I'd be retired by the time I'm 30. I feel like I'm burnt out before I've ever started anywhere. I would clean the toilets if it meant a job, but I can't even get there. I don't expect to land my dream job straight away. I am more than happy to climb the ladder, I want to climb the ladder, but no one will tell me where the ladder is. Feels like there isn't even a ladder at all. Every level 1 helpdesk support drone just magically starts with 5 years experience.

I have a feeling that the following quote, which I will quote for emphasis, will haunt me for the rest of my life.

Quote:
You need the experience to get the job, but you need the job to get the experience
This is the paradox I have been dealing with for something like 6 years. I have tried every which way to get into the industry. I've tried work experience multiple times (something like 5 times now), I have tried working for free, I have tried bitching here, Whirlpool, AusNOG, everywhere, likely to the point where people are fucking sick of me, I have tried going to interviews in smart casual dress, tried going in the best business clothing that can be had at Kmart (which, again, is all I can afford until I actually have a job), I have even gone to interviews high, in an effort to try and kill some of the anxiety.

I have tried everything I can think of, to get into an industry that a) doesn't want to know me, and b) demands years of experience for an entry level helpdesk/"analyst"/<whatever bullshit term>, it really is a case of a desire to climb the ladder, but you can't find the ladder, or it doesn't exist. People just expect experience to come out of thin fucking air.

I'm always trying to learn shit. I am always racking up insane power bills from my servers and my networking shit because it is the only "real-world" experience I can get without a job, and that experience counts for nothing because if it did, I would be employed by now.

I mentioned yesterday that I dream of ending up in a NOC or a datacenter. That dream is still burning inside me, but it's slowly fading because of the impenetrable wall that is an industry that literally does not want to know me. All I want is a fucking job. I know IT is not glamorous, I know it's not fun, but it is my bread and butter. It is what I know best, and it's what I've known best for a very long time

So here is my question to the IT/Telco community.

What do you as an industry want from me?

I have tried everything I can think of. Since none of you tell me what you want, I am forced to bootstrap my learning. That being, pretty much fucking guessing as to what you want from me, and studying that. If I could do uni, I would. Even then, I'm told that uni students are useless and full of themselves. You're more than happy to bitch about what you don't want, but you always stop short of telling me what you do want. You seem to forget that everyone has to start somewhere, instead demanding that people pull years of experience literally out of their arse for shit kicker desk jobs that I could do in my sleep.

What do you want from me? Someone, please tell me. I seriously don't know. I have offered my skills, I have offered my time, I have laid out my strengths and faults on the table, I have offered to front upfront device costs, my own transport, hell I have even offered to move at no notice. Nothing I offer is good enough and it's very quickly wearing me down. I just wish I could get some fucking feedback. A job would be nice too, but we can all dream can't we.
__________________
PC: i5-750 2.6GHz | 14GB RAM | 8800GT | 120GB SSD + 4TB HDD
Laptop: Late 2013 MacBook Pro | i7-4850HQ | 16GB RAM | 512GB SSD | GT 750M | U2711
Server: HP ML10v2 | Pentium G3420 3.1GHz | 4GB RAM | 15TB HDD |120GB SSD
Shooter: 7D Mark II | 10-18 f/4.5-5.6 IS | 17-55 f/2.8 IS | 50 f/1.4 Σ 70-200 f/ 2.8 IS Flickr
trackhappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2017, 7:13 PM   #22245
hosh0
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney N.S.W
Posts: 8,861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foliage View Post
I agree. Just get a free account and start playing, best way to learn imo.
Fuck me, this crazy attitude is rampant in IT and it shits me to tears. If you go straight to production with a new product you're a cowboy. Yet doing that with your own learning is fine?

The amount of people who just start playing and consider that learning is crazy. Just because you get something to work doesn't mean you did it right or understand wtf is actually happening. IT has way too many people "playing" when they don't have the slightest clue about the fundamentals.

Learning fundamentals is hard, dry and relatively boring intially. But that doesn't mean you skip it!!! The world of IT is worse of because of this attitude that oh that's boring and hard so I'll just skip it. The quality of the IT industry and knowledge across it is far worse today than 10-15 years ago, because of this attitude.

Would you be happy if your heart surgeon skipped the theory class cause it was boring?
__________________
IRWA (I'd Rather Walk Alone)


In God we trust, all others we virus scan.
hosh0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Sign up for a free OCAU account and this ad will go away!

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 3:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
OCAU is not responsible for the content of individual messages posted by others.
Other content copyright Overclockers Australia.
OCAU is hosted by Micron21!