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Old 3rd February 2013, 10:51 AM   #61
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What can really be done with MMOs though?
http://www.trialsofascension.com/

Here's a start.

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Dynamic Spawning
Static spawning will be perma-killed in ToA. You will not see the same creatures spawning over and over again in a given location. Instead, creatures will spawn according to the local climate, their affinity to civilization and a host of other variables.

The trees and plants of TerVarus can be harvested so this same dynamic behavior will extend to the flora as well.

If that's not enough, our interactive GM team will be constantly dropping special spawn points throughout the world. These spawn points will have an incredible amount of flexibility in what they spawn, how long they spawn for and any special triggers the GM team might want to throw at you. A spawn point that generates an orc every 2 to 4 minutes for 24 hours? Childs play. A spawn point that will generate an encampment once the spawned orc count reaches 20? Easy. Placing that spawn point just outside your city walls? Now we're talking!

We will have an ever-growing number of dungeon maps that the GM team will prepopulate with spawn points then place into the world. A GM placed dungeon will not be a permanent fixture of TerVarus and will collapse after a given time.
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Settlements
Create your own settlement and control tax rates and where your citizens can build their own private homes or shops. Oversee the construction of settlement structures such as a treasury, town hall, walls and even keeps. Ensure your citizens are protected by hiring NPC guards and assign them to guard whatever areas you wish.

Expand your settlement by conquering neighboring lands. If another settlement happens to be in your way, let loose the dogs of war!

Here are a few articles where we explain how to create a settlement and what to do with one once you have it. Here's one describing settlement warfare.
http://www.embersofcaerus.com/content.php/215-Videos

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Old 3rd February 2013, 10:57 AM   #62
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You do make a good point about meaningfulness, though. What made the games you've played meaningful to begin with? The fact that you had an impact? or the fact that they had an impact on you?
Mass Effect is probably the game that had the most impact on me, despite me not having a big impact on it.

Hate the game all you want, but it had an awesome story, awesome characters, and was just great fun to play. If an MMO could deliver even half that experience, I'd be happy with it.

But it's always about the loot or bigger, better 'skills' with MMO's. Star Trek, Star Wars, World of Warcraft, RIFT, Champions Online, etc. etc. it's just the same old level/power/gear grind. I already get that kind of thing from standard single, or even MP online games.

What I want from an MMO is a meaningful experience. One that I share with others. And you know what, if only one person can ever save the princess, that's ok, as long as there are other opportunities to do something equally as cool that don't require grinding for uber gear or spending weeks on end trying to do repetitive, boring tasks that see you gain small increments towards your goal at a time.

RIFT, for instance, I thought was a great game. And yet after playing it for a couple of weeks I stopped because it was just WoW prettied up, and WoW bores me senseless. Same with all the other MMO's I mentioned. You never feel any real attachment to the setting or the people because you have no meaningful interactions with any of it. In fact, the only reason I kept going back to WoW at all was because of the friends I'd made online. Eventually, even that just wasn't enough to justify a monthly expense.

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Old 3rd February 2013, 11:27 AM   #63
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Fuck skill. Fuck twitch mechanics. Fuck complex monsters. Fuck talent trees. Fuck classes. Fuck builds. Fuck all standard MMO's.
It's a shame that UO was before its time because it had none of those things. You could literally make a new character and kill the hardest monsters in the game right from the outset if you knew what you were doing. This is T2A btw...

The issue with MMOs these days is that it's about
1. Money
2. Beating WoW in subscribers

WoW has set the benchmark and now people think every MMO needs to be like it. I think long gone are the days were a company wants to realise a dream (UO) and instead they just want cash.

EvE is the only really other successful MMO because it's in a completely different setting and uses completely different game mechanics.

Anyway, I've practically given up on MMOs. It's all just the same shit with different skins.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 3:11 PM   #64
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This looks really interesting; I'll be giving it my support.

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Originally Posted by ddk View Post
Mass Effect is probably the game that had the most impact on me, despite me not having a big impact on it.

Hate the game all you want, but it had an awesome story, awesome characters, and was just great fun to play. If an MMO could deliver even half that experience, I'd be happy with it.

What I want from an MMO is a meaningful experience. One that I share with others. And you know what, if only one person can ever save the princess, that's ok, as long as there are other opportunities to do something equally as cool that don't require grinding for uber gear or spending weeks on end trying to do repetitive, boring tasks that see you gain small increments towards your goal at a time.

RIFT, for instance, I thought was a great game. And yet after playing it for a couple of weeks I stopped because it was just WoW prettied up, and WoW bores me senseless. Same with all the other MMO's I mentioned. You never feel any real attachment to the setting or the people because you have no meaningful interactions with any of it. In fact, the only reason I kept going back to WoW at all was because of the friends I'd made online. Eventually, even that just wasn't enough to justify a monthly expense.
I loved the ME series myself. Same reasons. You have all that *and* you're the hero.

What's begging the question, though, is why would it being an MMO (for example) make it better? The same applies to TESO, and I hope they're thinking about innovating the gameplay more than all the other soso MMOs.

Also the other thing MMOs find they have to do, is pace the game so slowly that people are still playing a month later and enough to warrant further monetary input. How many hours have you put into ME (total series) vs WoW? A lot of it may have been grindy boring but it did it well enough for a lot of people to keep coming back month after month.

I feel the same way about RIFT and the others too, so you have to ask yourself: are MMOs really the platform that are going to give you the experience you want? Their nature seems to be at odds with what interests you (and me, actually).

I'm not saying an MMO can't be made that has those things, it's just that I think a lot of the MMOs have tried to "make theirs different" without changing enough. Star wars was great until I realized how much I've played everything before, and the only totally new thing (space battles) was the lamest thing I've ever seen. If it had xwing style combat I'm pretty sure myself and a couple million others would have still been playing it. That's actually new gameplay.

Star Trek online had the right idea, imo, but they just utterly failed in execution.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 4:12 PM   #65
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Their nature seems to be at odds with what interests you (and me, actually).
Honestly, I'd never considered that.

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Star Trek online had the right idea, imo, but they just utterly failed in execution.
The problem with STO was, IMO, the fact that it was just Star Trek tacked on to a very generic sci-fi gaming platform. Aside from the naming conventions and lore, there was virtually nothing "Star Trek" about it.

I had high hopes for the player-created missions but the Foundry is just too limiting, and still within the bounds of the game itself, to really bring it to life. Which is a darn shame 'cause it could've been awesome.

A mate of mine is a huge Trek nerd, although you'd never get him to admit it, let alone go to a con (which would require him to admit IN PUBLIC). He actually bought the life-time subscription to STO before it had even been released.

I still tease him about it
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Old 3rd February 2013, 4:47 PM   #66
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Age of Conan was by far best in my opinion. That combat, those epic quests, that customised story.
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Old 4th February 2013, 9:05 AM   #67
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I was thinking about this topic just now, and it occurred to me that my interest in something like trials of ascension is based on the appeal of the perma-death (among other things). There was something I found appealing about having a character die off, and as I read through the site, they pretty much explained it perfectly - closure.

Current MMOs don't have any closure for your characters. Just rinse repeat gear and raids and gogogo until you get bored enough to unsubscribe. Stories need an end, and if the game is endless, it's impossible without killing off characters.

Hardcore one death to rule them all is a bit extreme, but I like the idea of 100 death cap (which is what TOA is planning). I don't think TES has any sort of perma death does it?
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Old 12th February 2013, 10:02 AM   #68
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Video commentary about how the TES series has progressed and how much it has been dumbed down. I found it a good watch (32min).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:24 PM   #69
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Dumbed down is a pretty harsh (and inaccurate) way of describing the progression of The Elder Scroll series.

The biggest change in scope was going from Daggerfall to Morrowind. In Daggerfall, there were hundreds of generic dungeons for you to dive into, and they were randomly generated. Random monsters, loot, and layout. Once you scoured 5 dungeons you pretty much saw everything there was to offer.

In Morrowind, the decision was made to be much more thorough with the world, focusing a lot less on epic scale and much more on giving the player engaging play through out the game. I don't think it's accident that most TES fans list Morrowind as their favourite game.

Going back to Daggerfall, the game breaking bugs that were EVERYWHERE. It was clearly an ambitious project that got away from development team. I miss the ability to scale walls and have my agility skill tested against the attributes of the wall, but I don't miss a crash to desktop or having to reload because I'm caught in a position I can't get out of (still happens in Skyrim if you aren't careful. I also don't miss saving after EVERY SINGLE MINUTE just in case it crashes. It was so bad that after Bethesda released it's last patch, fans released an unofficial patch to try and address other outstanding bugs. There are still some show stopping bugs in there.

It's a fair argument that Skyrim was reduced in complexity for the console crowd (and that Oblivion's control scheme was clearly designed with the console controller in mind), but to say it's been dumbed down is an over simplification. Streamlined is a better term, and I doubt very much it would enjoy the popularity that it does now if it had stayed the same over the years. Overly complex gaming does have it's fans, super managing stats with item changes and buffing characters through potions, spells and abilities before each battle. Most people prefer a smoother gaming experience however.

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Old 12th February 2013, 12:43 PM   #70
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Frankly, everything other than Eve just doesn't hold my attention anymore. It's the only MMO I return to every few months and have to physically stop myself playing.
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:54 PM   #71
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Age of Conan was by far best in my opinion. That combat, those epic quests, that customised story.
If Age of Conan had the same attention to detail in the rest of the game as it did in the starting zone it would have rivalled WoW, easily. Instead....it was pretty much beta after just getting to know your characterand thinking you were off on an amazing adventure in an MMO with as much detail as a SP RPG.
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Old 12th February 2013, 7:56 PM   #72
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Frankly, everything other than Eve just doesn't hold my attention anymore. It's the only MMO I return to every few months and have to physically stop myself playing.
im semi interested in eve.

just, not good enough at spreadsheets
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Old 20th March 2013, 11:41 AM   #73
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http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/03/1...ght-be-awesome

Bit of info and Game play :P
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Old 20th March 2013, 12:49 PM   #74
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Looks pretty good.
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Old 20th March 2013, 1:17 PM   #75
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http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/19/th...r-scrolls-fan/

I'm just posting the negatives at the moment:

Classes and skills
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A lot of concepts are left out in the cold, since you can’t just choose not to take a class. If I want want my build to be something like a Nord berserker, I can forge something along those lines with non-class skill lines. But I have to pick a class that doesn’t fit my concept on top of that, leaving me with skill trees that will just sit, forever ignored, on my character sheet. I expect we’ll see more classes added over time, but right now, they seem too narrow and almost vestigial.
Dungeon smungeon
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The dungeon layouts draw from MMOs more than they do from Elder Scrolls games. The design of MMO dungeons—the ones scattered in the world, moreso than instanced content—is absolutely boring. I want to get lost in ESO’s world, but in the game’s cavernous, straightforward, open-layout dungeons, it would be hard for even a blind Moth Priest to get lost. Sure, the Dwemer ruins look nice. But they lack the sense of mystery, and the feeling of delving into the unknown, claustrophobic bowels of the earth that are such a hallmark of Elder Scrolls games. I want to pass through the threshold of a dungeon with the knowledge that I’ll be plumbing its depths for hours, the sight of the sun becoming a fading dream as corridor after corridor of steam pipes and hostile constructs assault my hit points and my sanity.
Questing
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It’s zone-based. I don’t think even the most optimistic people failed to see this coming, but it’s still something that makes ESO feel more like an MMO than a genuine TES game. The world of Tamriel, expansive and open as it is, is divided up into level-based zones that make it difficult to explore as freely as you would in Oblivion or Skyrim. I didn’t actually have the opportunity to go venturing off into the distance, as I had a limited amount of time in a build where portions of the world aren’t even there yet. But there are separate zones designed for certain levels of characters.

The quest structure in the portions I played mostly led me by the hand from hub to hub, and I felt I was being whisked past experiences like getting lost and spontaneously adventuring into a cavern or a fort, as you do so frequently in other Elder Scrolls games.
Although Massively said:
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Though ESO employs a traditional questing system -- complete with speaking to NPCs, accepting tasks, and turning them in for rewards -- you aren't put on rails that lead you from quest hub to quest hub. There's a main storyline that you can direct your attention to immediately, or you can put it on the back burner and occupy yourself with myriad side missions.
Da fuck???
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...but I still found myself frustrated when I couldn't whip out my sword when my quarry finally reached me. For that, I was told, I'd have to wait until level 15 when weapon swapping unlocks.
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Last edited by Rubberband; 20th March 2013 at 1:20 PM.
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