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Old 21st October 2015, 12:55 AM   #46
JugV2
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Instead of analysing the best dog to get to prevent burglary, why not invest in insurance, alarms, safes, security screens?

You all need to store your Tiaras and gold ingots at a bank maybe.
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Old 21st October 2015, 9:39 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by JugV2 View Post
Instead of analysing the best dog to get to prevent burglary, why not invest in insurance, alarms, safes, security screens?

You all need to store your Tiaras and gold ingots at a bank maybe.
Is my vault 3 stories underground with an undersea entrance and armoured guard not good enough?

The way I see it, if a toy/small dog was a deterrent for burglary, why aren't they used in security and police work?
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Old 21st October 2015, 9:46 AM   #48
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Because for those roles, you need a dog to take someone down.
That's not a deterrent, thats attack and submission.

For private people at home, you want a deterrent.


Why do Chubb security guards only have handguns, when the people in the army have styrs and rocket launchers?
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Old 21st October 2015, 11:20 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JugV2 View Post
Instead of analysing the best dog to get to prevent burglary, why not invest in insurance, alarms, safes, security screens?

You all need to store your Tiaras and gold ingots at a bank maybe.
Because a dog is the best deterrent against burglary. A dog is an alarm. A very reliable one. I guess a big dog is a security screen also. But really, if the alarm is going off in the middle of the night, is the burglar going to hang around to test the screens? It seems the answer is no.

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Participants were asked whether a series of factors (listed below) would typically deter them from entering a property. Security measures such as alarms, and grilled windows and doors were noted as an effective deterrent by burglars. However, this study concluded that the most effective method of deterrence was a dog. Participants mentioned to interviewers that a dog did not necessarily need to be large and dangerous to deter, but just bark, as their main concern was the risk of drawing attention to their presence. The most common overall deterrents were noted as:

a dog (61.4%);
working alarm systems (49.1%);
lights inside house (19.3%);
grilled windows/doors (19%);
unknown area (14%);
visibility of property from road (14%);
sensor lights (22.8%); and
gates (12.


http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/c.../tandi489.html

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clonex: I was going to address great danes / bernies / mastiffs / leonbergers under that post but got distracted and left them out.



Small dog + steel capped boot + swift kick = problem solved, and an even bigger problem when the owner comes home.

A small dog cannot deal with an adult kicking it with force, and won't be concerned with barking, if it's just had half its ribs broken (or been bricked in the head).... and yes, this sort of thing has happened quite a bit in the past (sadly).

Then theres the ability to easily muffle a small dog. Or the fact if its a yap yap type, chances are it barks all the time anyway and people will ignore it.
A larger dog is far more resilient, and if you don't do the damage in the first kick, you are going to get mauled.


Are you able to prove your assertions with any evidence? Dog are baited to allow burglars in also. Poison doesn't care the size.

Coz a steel capped boot is all a burglar carries around. Do they all wear steel caps, or just the dog kicking ones? In fact, your larger dog is going to be much easier to hit with the crow bar. Try hitting or kicking a foxy who is keeping ten feet away making a god awful racket. The moment you turn your back, you are gonna bleed. The big dog who charges in is going to die fast.

If a professional burglar wants to get in. The size of the dog is irrelevant.

If you read the links I provided. There is an ex burglar there who suggests small dogs. are actually more of a deterrent than large ones. As they make more noise for longer. The other links show the dog size has little effect on the statistics. A dog is the best prevention. Even a beware of the dog sign is often enough.

No one questions the man stopping ability of a large over small dog. But if both are equally likely to deter a burglar (which they are) what does it matter? Other than the civil suit after the attack might be more affordable with a small dog.

I love big dogs. I really do. But as a burglary deterrent in suburbia, they offer no advantage over smaller ones. Other than maybe looking and feeling tougher.

Last edited by lennie; 21st October 2015 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 21st October 2015, 2:13 PM   #50
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If a professional burglar wants to get in. The size of the dog is irrelevant.
Exactly... If a professional has targeted a premises you could have roaming packs of rottweilers and it isn't going to do shit.
The burglar will simply plan his entry to either avoid the dogs or mitigate the risk.. That said.. most burglaries are simple crimes of opportunity with little to no planning involved and if there is an opportunity to go to a house without a dog to deal with... they will generally take it.

The advantages of the smaller dog (from someone who has a Golden Retriever) is that they tend to be noisier and yappier, more likely to bark constantly at any disturbance.

I should add, it is well known in Golden Retriever circles that they make awesome watch dogs...
they will happily watch someone break into your home, watch them load your shit into a car and watch them drive off with it..
Useless pricks of animals..

.
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Old 21st October 2015, 3:48 PM   #51
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Exactly... If a professional has targeted a premises you could have roaming packs of rottweilers and it isn't going to do shit.
The burglar will simply plan his entry to either avoid the dogs or mitigate the risk.. That said.. most burglaries are simple crimes of opportunity with little to no planning involved and if there is an opportunity to go to a house without a dog to deal with... they will generally take it.

The advantages of the smaller dog (from someone who has a Golden Retriever) is that they tend to be noisier and yappier, more likely to bark constantly at any disturbance.

I should add, it is well known in Golden Retriever circles that they make awesome watch dogs...
they will happily watch someone break into your home, watch them load your shit into a car and watch them drive off with it..
Useless pricks of animals..

.

My last dog was a rescue bull arab. He would let strangers in gladly. Wagging tail and all. But he wouldn't let them out.
I got a call one day from the police. Asking me to go home and let a policeman out of my yard. He had the wrong address. Fortunately the copper also saw the funny side. But really, he wasn't the best watch dog. He would growl, and position himself to prevent people leaving. But he would never bark. He just wouldn't let them leave if I wasn't home. He was a beautiful dog with a magnificent nature. But that aspect of him was damn spooky. Not long after that, the neighbour over the back got broken into.

Its not what you want. You want them to prevent the burglar even trying. You don't want them to test your big tough dog. You don't want to come home to some poor junkie torn apart by your dog, or a massive vet bill from an armed burglar. You want them to not even try....

Before that I had two little Aussie terriers. There was no way in hell a stranger was coming in the yard uninvited with those two around. Steel caps or not. They were demon dogs when on guard. If a stranger came near the place, the whole block knew about it. Familiar people And familiar animals were just ignored. They would guard the 3 neighbouring properties also. Never was there a break in near me. Despite being a suburb prone to crime.

Anecdotes I know. But small dogs really are awesome alarms.
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Old 21st October 2015, 3:58 PM   #52
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You don't want to come home to some poor junkie torn apart by your dog,
Truth is... the sort of tool that would want to own a vicious big dog is the same sort of dribbling dimwit who would claim this is exactly what they want to come home too...

Sad and broken people I guess...

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Old 21st October 2015, 4:17 PM   #53
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We have a few small dogs around us. The things yap yap yap all the time, even if you go in the backyard to do gardening.

If someone broke into their place I'd be none the wiser, because I'd just think they are yapping as usual.

Unless the dogs are trained not to bark (but many smaller breed dog owners don't get then trained).

Flipside is our 35kg Lab girl. When she's up jumping on the door barking (work in progress) if you didn't know her you'd be very wary. That said she won't even scare minor birds off the patio, so she'd be a terrible guard dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenge View Post
Truth is... the sort of tool that would want to own a vicious big dog is the same sort of dribbling dimwit who would claim this is exactly what they want to come home too...

Sad and broken people I guess...

.
Oowwwwrrr but it pretects me crop / eyes from da uva delars, n keeps me safe bruz.

You're right though, and generally they'd be the same dogs that when they escape and maul someone, are put down because the bogan owner wanted a penis extension that made them look tough.

Security through obscurity is how I see it best.... make your place as undesirable as possible to break into, because all but the professionals want the easiest/simplest place to break into. Screw a place that has 6 foot high padlocked gates, or multiple gates, or deadbolts.. and you know has an alarm, if the place next door has a basic lock, hip height see through gates, and no alarm.

Last edited by cbb1935; 21st October 2015 at 4:22 PM.
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Old 21st October 2015, 5:22 PM   #54
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This thread reminds me why I dont live in Sydney or Melbourne any more.
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Old 28th October 2015, 11:05 AM   #55
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This thread reminds me why I dont live in Sydney or Melbourne any more.
Hobart might be fine, but I am guessing Perth, Adelaide, Darwin, and Brisbane aren't any better than Melbourne or Sydney. I hear wonderful things about Gold Coast and Geelong, of you like crime, so seems pretty widespread.


I miss the german shepherd I had, she was not a good dog, too dominant and poorly trained. But great at defending property and persons. I remember when my wife called me at work one day. She had come home to an open door. She rang to say she was worried someone was in the house. In my best Mr Burns voice I said "Release the hounds." Sure enough, they checked and my wife was happy no-one was inside, that or the corpse was gone before I got home. Either way, I was happy with that and the missus felt safe.

I would think that to be a proper guard dog, it needs to be trained, the bigger and more dominant the dog, the better the training.

There is a reason they don't let P-platers drive powerful cars, and the same should apply to dogs. Learn to control something easy before you go to the big stuff.
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Old 28th October 2015, 5:04 PM   #56
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had a friend that had two dogs , a blue heeler and a foxy , he had trained the fox to look after his esky , the blue heeler was a placid dog ,

if you went to get a beer from the esky the little foxy would just about rip your hand off, until he gave the command then the foxy would let you get a beer
meanwhile the blue heeler was just laying on the ground couldn't give a stuff
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Old 28th October 2015, 9:12 PM   #57
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COMPANION ANIMALS REGULATION 2008 - REG 24

http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/...08265/s24.html

How is your dangerous guard dog suppose to prevent burglary of your property when it is lawfully locked up as per the above guidelines ?
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Old 28th October 2015, 9:40 PM   #58
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I would never want my dog to be a guard dog in a suburban environment. I totally dislike having a dog that barks at loud/strange noises, it just pisses all the neighbours off.
My staffie lives inside, at night if there's a strange noise he sits up and grumbles, him and I go check to see what's going on, I praise him and we go back inside. He's saved my arse and my stuff a few times, as has my previous staffie.
A dog that barks all the time will not cause *anybody* to call the cops because "there's somebody breaking in next door" it will cause your neighbours to call the cops/council because "the dog next door barks all the time" or they will bait it.
Putting up signs saying there's a dog causes fuckers to look over the fence to see if there's a dog they can steal to use for fighting or to use to train their fighting dogs... I'd rather my staffie inside behind locked doors where nobody sees him while I'm away during the day.
Dogos can be trained and they are awesome loyal dogs, but like any bull breed they need a strong/consistent, experienced hand... they are not at all a good first dog.
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Old 29th October 2015, 12:05 AM   #59
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dogs in all states have to be locked in a cage effectively when not under adult supervision

so how can they be a guard dog
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Old 5th November 2015, 3:22 AM   #60
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You missed the best part Juggs,

Buying a dangerous dog, $6600 fine.
Selling a dangerous dog, $6600 fine.

After being attacked yesterday morning, I've read up on what the owner will need to do to keep the dog. It's extremely onerous.
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