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Old 6th March 2017, 4:55 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by cbb1935 View Post
triggered a nasty "anxiety related issue" whilst asleep, which in turn created a scare, and now has me re-evaluating things. (happy to discuss, just not in open forum).
So yeah... have you sort medical advice about this issue?...
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Old 6th March 2017, 5:02 PM   #107
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Sorry for the lack of updates... I am indeed taking everything in.

I felt though if I don't update things, people will presume I'm making excuses not to act.

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to do anything this weekend.

Saturday AM: A buildup of things (not just work), triggered a nasty "anxiety related issue" whilst asleep, which in turn created a scare, and now has me re-evaluating things. (happy to discuss, just not in open forum).

I love IT and it's one of the only things I know (aside from photography, and driving fast, but how many people become a pro race driver out of those who aspire?).

In keeping with the thread, and certainly with the ideas of moving forwards, I'm going to have to re adjust things ever so slightly. I have a pretty good idea how I'm going to "steer the ship" to avoid unnecessary stress at present, and handle things as they come to light.

The work situation used to create a lot of stress/financial stress. That's kinda been held at bay with the money situation. But theres a few other things going on, which should hopefully be handled in a fortnight, which have pushed my stress/anxiety levels right up of late (happy to discuss, just not in open forum).

Once that's hopefully done and dusted, then I'm shaping towards a bit of a plan, using everything in this thread to skill myself (again happy to discuss, just not in open forum). Keep in mind this thread was started with short term future visions in mind, rather than immediate ones.
Speaking from personal experience, once your job starts affecting your health GET THE FUCK OUT ASAP.

Back in the early 2000's, I was in a job I mostly liked, but the problems (nothing technical, was office politics). I was always 'sick', was grumpy miserable sullen 24x7, lost friends, family didn't want to be with me, hobbies/stress relievers weren't helping. Eventually (mid 2005) it clicked, and I quit on that day. Bounced around a few places over the next few months, but then found where I am now, and have been there fro 11 years.

Honestly Mitch, it probably won't kill you, but you'll be more and more miserable getting out will become more difficult. stop fucking around and move.

I wish I had someone to slap me in the face earlier. I'd slap you in the face if I could. you need to move NOW, not next year, not in 6 months, now.

Everyone here is telling you the same thing, you need to move, it may be to a lower paying job, but you can always change - it's easier to change when you're happy.

/nuff said. if you're too far in to listen there's nothing we can do to help you. I hope you find your breaking point before you actually break.
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Old 6th March 2017, 5:46 PM   #108
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I still maintain IT sucks and I wouldn't recommend anyone get into it by choice.

If you have the skillset to do well at it, its hard to say you shouldn't do it - because lets be honest, you get paid far too well to do what i consider is pretty easy stuff.

But if you're struggling 10 years in, and its impacting your health - you need to find a new career. Fuck, be a stripper/man-whore. You'll probably drink less and not need therapy.
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Old 6th March 2017, 6:12 PM   #109
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So yeah... have you sort medical advice about this issue?...
The last 12 months i've gone from sleeping 10pm-6:30AM to 4:00AM-6:00AM.

What's changed for me?
Working from home - Out of side out of mind - i'm tasked with ensuring backups are 100%, if they're not - i work 16 hour days until they are (Which is fucked because 80% of this is vendor bureaucracy - you can gaurantee the case will not get looked at by someone with half a brain until an account manager is called), running the usual vendor hoops in the process while knowing more than the vendors L1/2 staff anyway.

I'm not far off rage quitting - my mental state over the last 12 months has had a steep decline since working from home - Company has earnt divedends and got the work of 3 people, but after 1 year i feel 5 years older

I think i'm starting to get some respect from vendors - im getting a little blunt and calling out every tech who ignores my advice for where the problem lies (had an issue never reported to vmware previously by anyone else - i told them where it was on day 2 - day 14 they acknowledged i was correct)

Also - the occasional - "The CIO cannot know backups aren't working - we NEED THIS FIXED" motivational phone call from my boss does wonders for morale - followed up by "Why have your incidencts breached, why haven't you acknowledged these SCOM alerts, etc"
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Old 6th March 2017, 7:54 PM   #110
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I still maintain IT OPERATIONS sucks and I wouldn't recommend anyone get into it
fixed it for you....
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Old 6th March 2017, 8:01 PM   #111
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The last 12 months i've gone from sleeping 10pm-6:30AM to 4:00AM-6:00AM.
Also - the occasional - "The CIO cannot know backups aren't working - we NEED THIS FIXED" motivational phone call from my boss does wonders for morale - followed up by "Why have your incidencts breached, why haven't you acknowledged these SCOM alerts, etc"
this job must be paying something magical to put up with that. Or is it experience? for i would be betting it would not be worth it for what your getting out of it.

as for cbb1935
I have a somewhat similar progression in IT. I got where i am today mainly by chance/ working hard.
when i have been stuck in the past a friend gave me some goals advice.
jot down 5 things you want to do (5 is an example can be 3)
now looking at those things what do you have to do to get no.1 done?
write them down.
then do the same with no.2 and so on

if you quantify them into steps so be it. it worked for may others. has helped me get direction in the past. also forces you to plan out what you need to do for you "dream"
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Old 6th March 2017, 8:29 PM   #112
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fixed it for you....
Nah fuck that.

You might luck into this position where you have it easy - but the fact remains our industry makes individuals money that they couldn't achieve otherwise - and it draws toxic people.

And those who aren't toxic to begin with, are infected by those that are, or just people who are unreasonable - and this often gets into them and ruins them too - or at least causes them extreme anguish and/or discomfort.
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Old 6th March 2017, 8:40 PM   #113
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Saturday AM: A buildup of things (not just work), triggered a nasty "anxiety related issue" whilst asleep, which in turn created a scare, and now has me re-evaluating things. (happy to discuss, just not in open forum).
I can tell you, that I have certainly been there. It sucks, but you've just gotta suck it up and go with it after you've calmed down and had a sleep.

Jump back on the wagon, off the wagon...whatever the saying is.

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Old 6th March 2017, 9:09 PM   #114
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Nah fuck that.

You might luck into this position where you have it easy - but the fact remains our industry makes individuals money that they couldn't achieve otherwise - and it draws toxic people.

And those who aren't toxic to begin with, are infected by those that are, or just people who are unreasonable - and this often gets into them and ruins them too - or at least causes them extreme anguish and/or discomfort.
I've had good jobs and bad jobs in IT, I don't think its as universally negative as you make it out to be.

90% of the toxicity is in operations. It just burns people out. I've liked most of the non Ops (or in-house jobs where Ops was < 50%) jobs I've had. Doesn't help that the trend for the most driven and accomplished techs is to move up and out of Ops (not trying to bag anyone, its just an observation), + outsourcing and MSPs etc. so you are often dealing with incompetent people and/or undeserving middle management / IT process parasites.

Luck has something to do with it for sure but you can do a heck of a lot to make your own luck - choosing the right workplace and making sure your skills are up to date / advanced enough to let you choose the right workplace. This is something that you should figure out for yourself after the first 3-4 years and it sure as heck has been repeated ad infinitum in places like here, reddit r/sysadmin or r/networking etc.

I do acknowledge we are in a two speed market here - lower-tier and ops workers are commodified as all heck and directly competing with outsourcing/457 etc., whilst senior techs with a proven track record pretty much get to pick and choose. One directly beget the other IMO

Finally, its interesting how you automagically equated the fact of regarding IT job as not sucking =having it easy..... thats basically the exact opposite of what keeps me going and I'm sure plenty of other propellerheads will nod in agreement. I want technically interesting work and the authoritah to do it properly and colleagues who are on my level who get the former and bosses who will back me in doing the latter.

Last edited by wintermute000; 6th March 2017 at 9:14 PM.
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Old 6th March 2017, 9:11 PM   #115
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I was in my last job for 8 years, I worked with a lot of people I liked in a business related to one of my interests. I was not hired in to do any IT stuff, was a sales position. Over the years I moved out of that position through a few a settled on position in what I suppose would be considered management? The company wasn't very structured.

Did stuff with computers there a lot. Wasn't ever going to earn much more money there, wasn't earning a whole lot either. Loved the place though.

Came to the realisation that the risk was staying there. Pulled up stumps, got relevant exit monies and did very little for several months. I had enough money to live for a while without needing to work ASAP and it was a good thing for me because I hadn't had time off in forever.

It was good, but I did need another job.

Got a job as phone/email support for a software joint. Got enough money. Did that for a year or so and got promoted in to new team as company is growing rapidly.

Now I do what they call "Business Analysis". I have no formal training in this area. I have a pretty good understanding of computers and have done some linux stuff at home. Haven't touched any thing curriculum wise since windows 2000 which I did in highschool.

I now earn more money than before. I live in a nicer house. My workplace is great. Should have done it way earlier.

It's very simple, there is more or less no value for the employee for being loyal to the company. If you not working unpaid overtime will break the business, then fuck 'em. Feel free to try and pay your rent in company loyalty, but I doubt they'll take it at the real estate office.

There can be some value to a company in being 'loyal' to their employees by doing things that are valuable like paying more or doing nice things for them. It lets you keep good staff longer to extract maximum value. The idea is to have people who make it easy for you to make money. But it would be wholly remiss of a company to simply pay a whole lot to the staff without an greater return in profit.

So, with all that said.

Fucking leave your job already, fuck.
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Old 6th March 2017, 9:19 PM   #116
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Speaking from personal experience, once your job starts affecting your health GET THE FUCK OUT ASAP.
Do eet.
Do eet Naow.

All the loving wives, happy dogs and beautiful houses in the world mean shit, if your to stressed/depressed/anxious to enjoy it.

See real doctors for medical issues, not the OCAU Health forums, or Dr Googs.
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Old 6th March 2017, 9:35 PM   #117
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Finally, its interesting how you automagically equated the fact of regarding IT job as not sucking =having it easy..... thats basically the exact opposite of what keeps me going and I'm sure plenty of other propellerheads will nod in agreement. I want technically interesting work and the authoritah to do it properly and colleagues who are on my level who get the former and bosses who will back me in doing the latter.
I get up every day with a desire to solve problems - hopefully some that others haven't solved under those conditions before. That's what makes me, me.

Technical, financial, environment and similar constraints absolutely help people get better and more efficient solutions.

The fact that inside the time that someone can complete a typical 4 year degree - our industry can see a technology emerge, become dominant and then completely be replaced and never really heard from again - and that for the better people in our field, we have to evaluate it, apply it, maintain it and then retire it - on top of all the other stuff we do/touch is pretty daunting to most.

But all of that doesn't have to be marred by the nasty, egotistical, selfish and other toxic behaviours that people attribute because they feel threatened by others. That's not a constraint that can make a better solution.

These people exist everywhere, its incredibly hard to find a place without them. If you are a solutions architect you get to have a short engagement with these people - but very few employers will let you choose to walk away from a toxic deal/environment. Almost none will let you do it repeatedly.

Like I said, you might get a reasonably clean run. You might get the ability as a result of how you interact with the industry to get away from it before it eats at you - but its there.

And hey, this kind of crap might be in other industries as well - but i've ran into far too many people who are only in it for themselves.
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Old 6th March 2017, 9:49 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Shags View Post
The last 12 months i've gone from sleeping 10pm-6:30AM to 4:00AM-6:00AM.

What's changed for me?
Working from home - Out of side out of mind - i'm tasked with ensuring backups are 100%, if they're not - i work 16 hour days until they are (Which is fucked because 80% of this is vendor bureaucracy - you can gaurantee the case will not get looked at by someone with half a brain until an account manager is called), running the usual vendor hoops in the process while knowing more than the vendors L1/2 staff anyway.

I'm not far off rage quitting - my mental state over the last 12 months has had a steep decline since working from home - Company has earnt divedends and got the work of 3 people, but after 1 year i feel 5 years older

I think i'm starting to get some respect from vendors - im getting a little blunt and calling out every tech who ignores my advice for where the problem lies (had an issue never reported to vmware previously by anyone else - i told them where it was on day 2 - day 14 they acknowledged i was correct)

Also - the occasional - "The CIO cannot know backups aren't working - we NEED THIS FIXED" motivational phone call from my boss does wonders for morale - followed up by "Why have your incidencts breached, why haven't you acknowledged these SCOM alerts, etc"

That sounds insane. Why so many issues with backups?
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Old 6th March 2017, 9:50 PM   #119
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The work situation used to create a lot of stress/financial stress. That's kinda been held at bay with the money situation. But theres a few other things going on, which should hopefully be handled in a fortnight, which have pushed my stress/anxiety levels right up of late (happy to discuss, just not in open forum).
You've mentioned before that you're not on top dollar at your current job, and a L2 job would likely earn similar. The money you have come into is a temporary life raft - use it to get to dry ground (a new job) as soon as possible. I also recall you mentioning that the bosses know some of your issues, so it wouldn't surprise me if 1) they're keeping you on as long as possible to try to not cause any more issues and 2) they would offer you a redundancy sooner if you asked them (and told them that you can't handle the uncertainty of the position any more, and want to find a new job sooner rather than later).

Honestly there is not a massive fundamental difference between the different versions of Windows server - if you know how to do something in 2k8 you'll be able to figure it out quite easily in 2016. Update your knowledge slightly and start applying for jobs now. From memory you've been in the current job for quite a number of years, and it came through someone you used to work for back when you were a travelling tech, so you're likely somewhat out of practise with interviews - even if you're not 100% ready/upskilled etc, apply for jobs and go to the interviews anyway, at worst you're getting more interview experience and getting a better grasp on what you need to know, and at best you may find a better job.

Uncertainty breeds anxiety - fix the uncertainty and you'll have less anxiety to deal with. The absolute worst thing you can do IMO is tread water at the current company and have them keep you on - they may end up meandering along for the next 5 years, and you may stick with them out of loyalty but this will be a bad thing for you. I know jumping can be scary, but if you stay I can just see them dragging you down.
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Old 6th March 2017, 10:01 PM   #120
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I should stress (pardon the pun) .. it's not work that triggered (or added) it, and if anything they've been excellent over the years with things. All my employers have.

When I started this thread there wasn't any stress/anxiety towards current job at all, simply making plans for "the next stage in life", before I do get moved on. I want to step up another rung, just couldn't figure out how (if that makes sense).

I was getting edgy about the money situation (have mentioned that before), but since coming into some recently, that issue has pretty much gone. Strangely enough I'm financially better off if I do get moved on, than move on myself (if I move on myself, I effectively toss away a close to 5 figure payout).

So what triggered it? Well "it's complicated".

Put simply this has significantly contributed to it by making me worry about triggering one of my main anxieties. This main anxiety prevents me taking public transport completely, which means I drive everywhere, and have to work close to home to avoid peak hour traffic (in my wifes words "you would never survive heading into the city and back for work).

Once I can hopefully get that out of the way, I'll be in a much better headspace with significantly less to worry about.

Then I can backtrack in this thread, reread everything and really formulate a solid plan moving forwards (because everyones given great comments in this thread).

Up till now I've held the above cards pretty close to my chest, but it does very much explain other things (now and in the past), and puts the pieces of the puzzle together regarding the situation.
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