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Old Today, 6:23 PM   #23236
GumbyNoTalent
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Originally Posted by PabloEscobar View Post
This kind of ties into my "Shit Software" rant from last week. My cars wheel's won't fall off if only 4 out of 5 wheel nuts are in... why the FUCK does my Line of Business app explode if I change the regional setting on my computer from DD/MM to MM/DD?
Date storage is not a datetime stamp.
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Old Today, 6:43 PM   #23237
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There's plenty of software out there that works alarmingly well. And all of it is grossly over-engineered.
But there are no 'underengineered cars'. Why the difference?... Sure Japan-cars and Korea-cars were historically shit, but even then, They were an order of magnitude more reliably than the equivalent "shit software"

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but they have a good head start over electronic computers, so most of the complexities in the engineering of the car has been sorted out and can just be copy pasted into future cars using the existing knowledge.

electronic computers are still in their infancy (really).
the complexities are still being worked out.
I'd date the "modern" car around the 1920's, (While the Model T often gets mentioned due to it being the first 'mass produced car' it was still really a motorised chariot), and I'd probably put a date of 1970 on "reliable" cars. (the first Corolla was 1966, VW Beetles were 1938, so I'm being generous here). You can look at the core of a car, and see that it's not changed "much" since the beginning.

So cars went from "brand new" to "accepted as reliable" in 50 years.

I'd date the "CPU" on Intel's 8080 in 1974 (Although logic gates had been around since the early 1900, transistors in the early 1950's and IC's in the lat 1950's). There is less than 10 years until it's expected to reach 1970's car levels of reliability.

That's not even taking into account the increasing research speed the modern age has provided us with.


Cars are over engineered because the govt say that they have to be safe.

Software can be shit, because Joe Blow can click compile and distribute it to the world.

Perhaps if you need a license (drivers, not software) to take your software on the Information Superhighway, shit software would fall by the wayside, like so many auto manufacturers did when laws for the common good were introduced.
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Old Today, 7:49 PM   #23238
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Originally Posted by elvis View Post
32 unique characters
try it again, after converting them from hex values to something else.
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Old Today, 7:57 PM   #23239
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Too long to be either a sha256sum or sha512sum.

(Hehehe, this is fun ).
Its no common hash, no one does 80 bit hashes because not enough entropy, hence why we have had 128bit ones for a decade or more.

I also assume its not a hash as they want you to reverse it, so if its not a common hash, you would have to make your own to reverse it and then brute the hash out which seems like a massive amount of work, so I would discount that.

So if we then assume its not a hash, then its something else, which could mean its cypher text, assuming a symmetric key, i would try combos of ciphers, and known secrets related (job ID, whatever the NZ dudes org is called etc).
Given its 80 bits I would work out what block ciphers easily fit it, or use a stream cipher (RC4 etc). If that doesnt work I would start to pad out block ciphers.

Or it could mean it is encoded, so then start running it through a bunch of standard encoding approaches.

The biggest unknown for someone to break it, is knowing how complex they want it to be, as that would direct me down the simpler, or more complex breaking approach...


Now given its for a sys admin role, and not a sec. role, i would assume it is meant to be simple, and thus likely some simple substitution sipher.
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Old Today, 9:07 PM   #23240
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Like everyone else I naturally tried simple hex->ascii as soon as I saw it but seeming gibberish.

Cipher is plausible - as elvis said, 32 unique characters, which could potentially be an alphanumeric set + some punctuation.

Or 24 of the 32 characters could be seen as purely numeric.
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Old Today, 9:15 PM   #23241
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But there are no 'underengineered cars'. Why the difference?...
Yes, we started going down this path last time. I'll play along.

Why the difference? Legislation says so, that's why. Now for the next part....

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Originally Posted by PabloEscobar View Post
Cars are over engineered because the govt say that they have to be safe.

Software can be shit, because Joe Blow can click compile and distribute it to the world.

Perhaps if you need a license (drivers, not software) to take your software on the Information Superhighway, shit software would fall by the wayside, like so many auto manufacturers did when laws for the common good were introduced.
Let's play this out.

I want you to imagine two scenarios.

Scenario one: worldwide minimum safety standards are mandated to all software worldwide. Simply consider the cost to modern business. Consider every bit of software meeting a simple "not shit" benchmark, and the effort across development, testing, QA, distribution, integration, and all the bits and pieces we know about. Imagine the cost of doing that at the development side, and passing that cost on to businesses, who in turn have to pay these fees and recoup that loss elsewhere.

Scenario two: America sees the cost in doing that, and their "pro-business" government approach throws it out before it even gets a chance to become a proposed bill. Australia, on the other hand, adopts it. Any software made anywhere in the world that doesn't meet minimum standards is rejected from everywhere (private sector, public sector, whatever). Where does that leave us?

Now I mentioned it back in the previous post, but cars have limited inputs and outputs. How do you measure car safety? Well you drive one pretty fast and slam it into a wall or twenty, testing the impact at different places and different times. Costly? Sure, but pretty well defined. Compared to software. How do we test it thoroughly? You mentioned previously changing your date format blows you your business app. Is that one of a million different tests expected to be done? How many other bits of software do we need to test side by side with your application? Do we test every OS combination and permutation possible? Every patch set that could *likely* affect our software? Sure, you could argue roads affect cars as OSes affect applications, but arguably the number of variables increases exponentially. How do we even define *what* to test, let alone go about testing it all?

And then there's software itself. I can get a dozen different cars from a dozen different manufacturers, and they all more or less do the same thing. Testing them all consistently and fairly is an achievable feat. Software is literally as diverse as businesses and the ideas people come up with to solve business problems. The expected inputs and outputs are insanely diverse. Other than "starting software, stopping software", I struggle to come up with a comprehensive list of tests I could apply to all software to make it all a fair and even test suite.

You mention licensing people above. Who do we license? Developers? Users? Hell, look at the volume of shitty certificates out there today that are completely meaningless. Again, cars have limited inputs and outputs. Licensing someone to use a car requires comprehensive practice and testing. How do we apply that to all software, again with it's near limitless complexity and possible inputs and outputs.

And hey, I'm 100% all for this, by the way. I dream of an Internet 2.0 where people who don't know what the fuck they're doing are kicked out until they can prove their worth. But given NSanity's competency ratio (hereby "NCR") from before, I can't see it being a highly profitable version of things, purely because the volume of people within it wouldn't be of any great commercial capacity.

So, we arrive at the same point we did last time we had this conversation. In order for software to get better, you'd have to cripple the entire software and IT market. There's a few folks with a vested interest in that who are very likely to stop you in your tracks. (Not me though, you've got my vote).
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Old Today, 9:36 PM   #23242
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More than once I've considered that life would be a lot easier if I was less intelligent. From conversation with my friends, I wonder if there is any correlation between high intelligence and major depressive disorder. Just imagine if the biggest problem on your horizon was whether you had beer in the fridge at home, and not that the failing state of the world is slipping further away from the United Federation of Planets-style utopia and closer to a war-torn Idiocracy-style dystopia.
From my totally reference-free, off-the-cuff memory, there have already been a number of studies showing a negative correlation between intelligence and happiness.
Of course its not as simple as a straightforwards cause-and-effect, plenty of nuances and caveats.
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Old Today, 9:38 PM   #23243
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From my totally reference-free, off-the-cuff memory, there have already been a number of studies showing a negative correlation between intelligence and happiness.
Of course its not as simple as a straightforwards cause-and-effect, plenty of nuances and caveats.
Ah well, at least we have the internal smugness of being right. That's the main thing.
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Old Today, 9:44 PM   #23244
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In defence of devs, time is finite, so scope is finite. You can't address every potential issue, and you can't test every potential configuration.

Admittedly, bad handling of dates/times is a bit of a code smell - it suggests somebody has done something fairly dumb like parsing dates from text strings.
http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1585

Dates are extremely difficult. Like everything difficult (eg encryption) outsource it. Someone else has done it better.
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