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Old 31st October 2016, 10:07 AM   #91
Elyzion
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There's no point in arguing with him. He's trying to defend his purchase.
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Old 31st October 2016, 10:07 AM   #92
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You're in a tiny, niche market
brb telling Hollywood and large enterprises they're "tiny and niche".

Please stop confusing anyone who's not a basic consumer with "niche". Apple are free to ignore the enterprise, but don't justify it as if it's a small market not worth anyone's time.
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Old 31st October 2016, 10:23 AM   #93
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No, not solved at all. We've used a multitude of third party tools to try and fix the problem. All of them fail because OSX's underlying code is broken.

You still don't get it. SMB shares just unmount themselves without warning. An auto-remount tool doesn't stop the fact that a 12 hour overnight render will fail if the storage vanishes (even if it reconnects seconds later). Even tools like "Dave" that try to hook in at a low level and change the code used to initiate the SMB connections don't work properly.

Current versions of OSX are not fit for enterprise storage workloads. There are no fixes, and no third party can help. Apple needs to want to fix this, and the enterprise is not their concern or focus. They're more interested in casual/prosumer single users, which again is perfectly fine. It just means enterprise users can't use their products.


It is a big deal to throw out working hardware, especially when you're talking hundreds/thousands of end users, or devices that cost hundreds/thousands of dollars.

And again, consider the environmental impact of throwing away perfectly functional hardware for no good reason. e-Waste is a big enough problem already thanks to this silly attitude.


Perfect video is perfect.
I use mountain to run my shares to my server for lightroom and other apps, works great, never dropped out. Just because Windows uses SMB, doesn't make it the be all and end all of network file protocols. Its pretty shitty overall to be honest.

and no enterprise is not a small market but it is a shitty market that Apple doesn't really want to be a part of because there is no money in it. Corporates expect long service agreements and everyone to do stupid low prices. The iPhone suits corporate due to how locked down it is but it doesn't mean its catered towards that market.

and no it isn't worth anyones time, a few companies have pulled back from the corporate market recently.

Don't like it? Don't use Mac then. I would rather fix some network share quirks with a $10 app than deal with Microsoft refusing to reset my activation key due to a mainboard change forcing me to buy another copy. Oh or them pushing fkn updates every week that either brick my PC or completely change things with no notice what so ever. Jesus I can't even get to control panel anymore without using that stupid bitch Cortana. Microsofts solution to simplifying the PC is to put lipstick on the OS and add more steps to get to where you want to be.
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Old 31st October 2016, 11:38 AM   #94
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I use mountain to run my shares to my server for lightroom and other apps, works great, never dropped out. Just because Windows uses SMB, doesn't make it the be all and end all of network file protocols. Its pretty shitty overall to be honest.
As an avid NFS user, you don't have to tell me the woes of SMB. But there's the kicker - Apple's version of NFS sucks even more than their version of SMB.

Your single instance system never drops out? Neat. We've got at least one Mac in the office that doesn't drop out. We've also got at least 200 others that do. They drop at random times doing random things. Zero consistency. Just part o the job of trying to diagnose Mac problems. The Apple community forums are much the same - pages full of random results, zero useful feedback from Apple. (No, sorry, resetting the PRAM doesn't do squat).

And you don't like SMB? Neat. So what are you using if not these two protocols? AFP? Because even Apple have deprecated support for that now, and it doesn't scale past 10 users (never has, never will, wasn't designed for it).

It's great to shit all over commonly used network protocols, but the fact is Apple flat out advertise that they are compatible with these things. If they aren't, then that's blatant false advertising.

Again, I don't really mind that these products don't scale to our needs. But FFS stop advertising to us that they do. If we know the truth in advance, we'll avoid the product and the drama.

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Don't like it? Don't use Mac then.
Damned right I won't. And that's what I've been saying for 2 pages now, to the retorts of at least one individual telling me I should stick with it because of an OLED bar.

Well, you're 100% right - we're out. I just had one of our heads of department sit with me and say that he felt like shit for saying it, but we're headed back to Windows after this abysmally embarrassing keynote. This is a guy who has used and loved Apple products for years, and a guy who cut his teeth in the industry on SGI Irix, and loves his "shiny UNIX box" tools to death. Apple's mis-handling of Mac as a leading product for creatives - something that used to be a well known industry standard - has shattered one of our biggest Mac lovers.

And I'm the same. As someone who's used and loved UNIX for years, I'm now being forced to work on something not of UNIX heritage, which sucks. But I have no choice in the matter, because Mac won't live up to said heritage of stability at scale.

Travel back in time through these forums and the MacTalk forums, and you'll see me defending OSX in the early days passionately. That was up to and including 10.4, when OSX worked correctly. 10.5 and onwards, and it all went to hell. So sad.

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Old 31st October 2016, 12:17 PM   #95
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I use a combination of NFS / AFP and SMB when needed. Running on 3 workstations over WIFI and 10GBe connected to a 24TB array on NAS4free. Did have file dropouts in the past but Mountain fixed all that by auto mounting everything. I also run a Final Cut Pro archive off network storage so I would know if there were any dropouts.

Yes OSX isn't as good as it used to be but its still a hell of a lot better experience than Windows 10. I can't stand anything about it about it really. Cant believe Microsoft haven't had the shit sued out of them for their forced upgrades and bricking computers.
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Old 31st October 2016, 12:24 PM   #96
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As an avid NFS user, you don't have to tell me the woes of SMB. But there's the kicker - Apple's version of NFS sucks even more than their version of SMB.

Your single instance system never drops out? Neat. We've got at least one Mac in the office that doesn't drop out. We've also got at least 200 others that do. They drop at random times doing random things. Zero consistency. Just part o the job of trying to diagnose Mac problems. The Apple community forums are much the same - pages full of random results, zero useful feedback from Apple. (No, sorry, resetting the PRAM doesn't do squat).

And you don't like SMB? Neat. So what are you using if not these two protocols? AFP? Because even Apple have deprecated support for that now, and it doesn't scale past 10 users (never has, never will, wasn't designed for it).

It's great to shit all over commonly used network protocols, but the fact is Apple flat out advertise that they are compatible with these things. If they aren't, then that's blatant false advertising.

Again, I don't really mind that these products don't scale to our needs. But FFS stop advertising to us that they do. If we know the truth in advance, we'll avoid the product and the drama.


Damned right I won't. And that's what I've been saying for 2 pages now, to the retorts of at least one individual telling me I should stick with it because of an OLED bar.

Well, you're 100% right - we're out. I just had one of our heads of department sit with me and say that he felt like shit for saying it, but we're headed back to Windows after this abysmally embarrassing keynote. This is a guy who has used and loved Apple products for years, and a guy who cut his teeth in the industry on SGI Irix, and loves his "shiny UNIX box" tools to death. Apple's mis-handling of Mac as a leading product for creatives - something that used to be a well known industry standard - has shattered one of our biggest Mac lovers.

And I'm the same. As someone who's used and loved UNIX for years, I'm now being forced to work on something not of UNIX heritage, which sucks. But I have no choice in the matter, because Mac won't live up to said heritage of stability at scale.

Travel back in time through these forums and the MacTalk forums, and you'll see me defending OSX in the early days passionately. That was up to and including 10.4, when OSX worked correctly. 10.5 and onwards, and it all went to hell. So sad.
It is very sad reading this. Apples "Pro" line has been successfully largely due to creative professionals - while it's not difficult to understand the direction they are taking, you can't help but feel they've lost their way a little.

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Old 31st October 2016, 1:11 PM   #97
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It is very sad reading this. Apples "Pro" line has been successfully largely due to creative professionals - while it's not difficult to understand the direction they are taking, you can't help but feel they've lost their way a little.

-nav.
Without going into details, there are a number of professional creative studios around the country right now turning to Hackintosh systems as their main production line, simply due to the fact that Apple aren't filling the Mac Pro product line in the way that they need. Current gen Mac Pros, even fully specced, don't meet their needs (when we can get PC workstations with newer/faster chipsets, 56 threads and 256GB RAM for the same price).

We seriously considered it for a while, but the effort outweighed the reward for us (mostly due to the 200+ high end applications we have to maintain and test, and not enough R&D guys to keep that up to date).

We were hoping that the Oct 27 keynote would address the out of date Mac Pro (even if that meant a beefed up iMac, which we would have seriously considered at this point due to sheer desperation), but instead all we got was an OLED strip on a mid range mobile product. Even our most rabid Mac fan in the office blurted out "was that it?" when it was over.
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Old 31st October 2016, 1:39 PM   #98
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As someone who has a hack and 2 Macbook Pro's I can tell you that is flat-out bull. The Mac Pro would meet their needs but they don't want to spend the money or think bigger specs is always better.

I can work on 4K timelines with very high bitrates just as easily on my Macbook as I can with the stupidly overspec'd hack. It all depends on the application, Premiere is an inefficient app that favours CUDA, try using an efficient platform like FCPx and performance will be greatly improved and its optimised for Apple hardware. Hell I have even seen someone editing a 4K timeline on a Macbook in the field.

Mac's are about software and hardware integration working together. OSX is built around core hardware like ATI Graphics cards (at the moment) and even my Titan X couldn't match an ATI 290x when it came to rendering times... that is the power of optimising software to fixed hardware. Yet to see how a Titan XP goes as there still isn't any driver support.

If they want to run Premiere then run it on hardware that suited for it.
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Old 31st October 2016, 1:45 PM   #99
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As someone who has a hack and 2 Macbook Pro's I can tell you that is flat-out bull. The Mac Pro would meet their needs but they don't want to spend the money or think bigger specs is always better.

I can work on 4K timelines with very high bitrates just as easily on my Macbook as I can with the stupidly overspec'd hack. It all depends on the application, Premiere is an inefficient app that favours CUDA, try using an efficient platform like FCPx and performance will be greatly improved and its optimised for Apple hardware. Hell I have even seen someone editing a 4K timeline on a Macbook in the field.

Mac's are about software and hardware integration working together. OSX is built around core hardware like ATI Graphics cards (at the moment) and even my Titan X couldn't match an ATI 290x when it came to rendering times... that is the power of optimising software to fixed hardware. Yet to see how a Titan XP goes as there still isn't any driver support.

If they want to run Premiere then run it on hardware that suited for it.
Adobe Premier is not "high end". Nor is 4K. That's mid range TV stuff these days.

We have a department that does that sort of stuff, but that's not the part of the business I'm involved in. Our needs a orders of magnitude higher than that.
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Old 31st October 2016, 1:52 PM   #100
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Adobe Premier is not "high end". Nor is 4K. That's mid range TV stuff these days.

We have a department that does that sort of stuff, but that's not the part of the business I'm involved in. Our needs a orders of magnitude higher than that.
Okay, so you're a niche within a niche and you expect a mainstream consumer hardware company to cater for you...

I can see why the MacBook isn't for you, but that hardly reflects on its relevance for most users.
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Old 31st October 2016, 1:59 PM   #101
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Okay, so you're a niche within a niche and you expect a mainstream consumer hardware company to cater for you...
I guess it's the second half of that sentence that's changed over time. Once upon a time Mac was the go-to for high end digital creatives. PCs were the boring low-end consumer devices that catered to the average mainstream masses.

Now the whole thing has flipped around. Time for us to flip with it. I'm quite saddened by this. I hold a nostalgic love for Apple that's now homeless.

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but that hardly reflects on its relevance for most users.
I reckon I'm at the fifth time saying that I'm not here to speak for "most users". I wonder when that will sink in for you?

But by all means, please keep offering me reasons to stick with Mac that don't suit my needs.
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Old 31st October 2016, 2:46 PM   #102
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Without going into details, there are a number of professional creative studios around the country right now turning to Hackintosh systems as their main production line, simply due to the fact that Apple aren't filling the Mac Pro product line in the way that they need. Current gen Mac Pros, even fully specced, don't meet their needs (when we can get PC workstations with newer/faster chipsets, 56 threads and 256GB RAM for the same price).

We seriously considered it for a while, but the effort outweighed the reward for us (mostly due to the 200+ high end applications we have to maintain and test, and not enough R&D guys to keep that up to date).

We were hoping that the Oct 27 keynote would address the out of date Mac Pro (even if that meant a beefed up iMac, which we would have seriously considered at this point due to sheer desperation), but instead all we got was an OLED strip on a mid range mobile product. Even our most rabid Mac fan in the office blurted out "was that it?" when it was over.
I hear ya buddy. We've built rigs with multiple water cooled TITANs to get the best of out our OTOY lineup. I would be going ape-shit if it came down to some shitty NFS driver killing overnight renders!

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Okay, so you're a niche within a niche and you expect a mainstream consumer hardware company to cater for you...

I can see why the MacBook isn't for you, but that hardly reflects on its relevance for most users.
You seem hell bent on labeling people as "niche"

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Old 31st October 2016, 2:55 PM   #103
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I hear ya buddy. We've built rigs with multiple water cooled TITANs to get the best of out our OTOY lineup. I would be going ape-shit if it came down to some shitty NFS driver killing overnight renders!



You seem hell bent on labeling people as "niche"

-nav.
Thats because it is, you have the consumer level then you have prosumer level which would encompass 90% of the market with things like FCPx and Premiere for video work.

If you need to go beyond this then you are beyond the scope of any normal hardware and consumer products. Also raises the question why the hell you in are in Macbook thread because no mobile device is going to offer the grunt required if you are talking about stupid core counts and Titan class graphics cards.
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Old 31st October 2016, 4:43 PM   #104
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Okay, so you're a niche within a niche and you expect a mainstream consumer hardware company to cater for you...

I can see why the MacBook isn't for you, but that hardly reflects on its relevance for most users.
I think you're missing Elvis' point here. It isn't that they aren't 'catering' to a market, but more that they're advertising that their product supports SMB connections, but actually doesn't in the real world. Coming from a 90% windows/10% Linux background, I've never heard of network shares dropping out aside from hardware failures or configuration issues, so the fact this basic functionality is limited or requires third party tools to work like it should is quite underwhelming.
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Old 31st October 2016, 5:04 PM   #105
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I think you're missing Elvis' point here. It isn't that they aren't 'catering' to a market, but more that they're advertising that their product supports SMB connections, but actually doesn't in the real world. Coming from a 90% windows/10% Linux background, I've never heard of network shares dropping out aside from hardware failures or configuration issues, so the fact this basic functionality is limited or requires third party tools to work like it should is quite underwhelming.
It does support them, did you ever consider that it could be on the server side where the connection issues are because its not a Windows workstation?

Having not issues with SMB dropping on NAS4Free.

It doesn't require a 3rd party tool, all mountain does is automate the mounting scripts being a UNIX environment...
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