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Old 7th April 2017, 3:17 PM   #16
[KEi]SoVeReIgN
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This is exciting news. Although I fear their market is so limited now it'll be a commercial failure. The incredible performance of the iMac as well as the workflows/process and goodwill they eroded with the Trashcan/FCP X will really limit who's going to buy these.

I know media agencies I used to work with had fleets of MacPros, when a 4 or 8 core Xeon with a GPU stomped all over a c2d iMac. Now for all but the most demanding job roles it'll be very difficult to justify a 6 or 12 core Mac Pro over a 4 core i7 iMac.

With that said, Mac Pros were actually always good value when compared to their HP/Dell workstation counterparts, so if they continue the trend with the new ones, they might just have a shot.
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Old 7th April 2017, 3:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by giles666 View Post
There are a few interesting stats in the Tech Crunch article.

Laptop to Desktop ration is now 80/20, and sales of the new MacBook Pro are up 20%.

They also make the statement that 'Software Developers' are their largest 'Pro' audience.

Gives an an indication of Apple's incentives, and what they probably see as a 'Pro' computer.
Because of node.js hipsters...
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Old 13th April 2017, 5:28 PM   #18
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Or if Apple brutally drop support in the next macOS version that might hurt used prices.
Thankfully with a little tweaking my macbook unibody is handling Sierra just fine, even with 2GB of ram
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Old 14th April 2017, 8:28 AM   #19
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Thankfully with a little tweaking my macbook unibody is handling Sierra just fine, even with 2GB of ram
2GB of RAM?

Tweaking? What did you do? Tweak the GUI the fuck out of there and just use the terminal LOL? Isn't 4GB a minimum to even install?

But seriously, I'd love to know - my 2011 MBP 13" i7 is showing some strain.
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Old 14th April 2017, 8:39 AM   #20
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I'm definitely keen to see what they come up with. Even though I'm not a pro in terms of creative market, all of Apple's current hardware is using laptop parts in various shapes, and the mac pro is still super expensive.
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Old 14th April 2017, 3:09 PM   #21
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2GB of RAM?

Tweaking? What did you do? Tweak the GUI the fuck out of there and just use the terminal LOL? Isn't 4GB a minimum to even install?

But seriously, I'd love to know - my 2011 MBP 13" i7 is showing some strain.
my 09 macbook runs sierra fine, SSD upgrade made a huge difference.
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Old 15th April 2017, 10:48 PM   #22
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2GB of RAM?

Tweaking? What did you do? Tweak the GUI the fuck out of there and just use the terminal LOL? Isn't 4GB a minimum to even install?

But seriously, I'd love to know - my 2011 MBP 13" i7 is showing some strain.
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my 09 macbook runs sierra fine, SSD upgrade made a huge difference.
Yep,, running a SSD and had 4GB of ram during my initial install but it kept rebooting, found I had a flacky 2GB stick so removed it and now stable and even upgraded to 10.12.4 without issues..once I find another stick I will put it back to 4GB..I'm sure I could get 6 or 8GB to work, but hit and miss and not worth the headache

I've set it up for the kids to do their school apps on Reading Eggs and Mathletics and with time feature for each to use the MB, I love that feature of parental control - shits all over any windoz can offer!

One thing I hated about the newer MB was RAM was soldered onboard and if it was ordered with just 8GB that was it stuck for life @ 8GB
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Old 18th April 2017, 6:57 AM   #23
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I'm definitely keen to see what they come up with. Even though I'm not a pro in terms of creative market, all of Apple's current hardware is using laptop parts in various shapes, and the mac pro is still super expensive.
Folks keep recommending we buy iMacs, but as you mentioned they're still just "laptop parts in a desktop form factor". Good enough for spreadsheet jockeys, but rubbish for the sort of work we do at scale.

And as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Apple's worrying trend towards soldered-on parts is not a business model I want to be a part of. Modern computers are all about chasing bottlenecks. If I can't buy a new video card, new hard disk or new RAM and remove old bottlenecks a year after release, I won't buy the product. The flippant response is that Apple would rather I buy a whole new computer, and they're in it for the profits not for my convenience. But my simple counter is that I'd rather not buy Apple products at all than buy a product of theirs that can't be upgraded. With that in mind, their "put Apple first, and the customer second" mindset will lose them sales.

That all assumes Apple cares about computer sales, of course. Considering the lion's share of their profits comes from everything non-Mac these days. All the same, the interviews with Apple executive management back on page one seem to indicate they do very much care (or at least are pretending to), so I guess we'll see what these new systems offer.

They speak of "molecularity", but that could mean anything. Technically speaking, the current trashcan Mac Pro is "modular" in that you can buy a $1000 Thunderbolt-to-PCIE converter and plug a few cards in that way. This is pretty much what we're forced to do on a frequent basis. And considering the off-the-shelf price for a fully specced Mac Pro to begin with, that modularity means I can buy 2 (almost 3) highly specced HP workstations for the same dollar cost, which outperform the trashcan on day one *and* can be easily upgraded later to boost them some more. As far as software goes, there's nothing exclusive to Mac that we need any more that can't be handled by either Windows or Linux (even when it comes to interacting with other non-Mac Apple hardware).
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Old 18th April 2017, 7:54 AM   #24
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As far as software goes, there's nothing exclusive to Mac that we need any more that can't be handled by either Windows or Linux (even when it comes to interacting with other non-Mac Apple hardware).
Exactly.

There is no way a macOS user is going to think Windows 10 is as good as macOS. But the point is that Win10 is now good enough.

When your traditional heartland drifts to another platform it's an indicator that there might be a wider problem.

I have an i7 on my desk that I'm trying out Linux Mint on, and you know what, for many things it's actually OK. Not as good as macOS, but free and fast and works on interesting hardware.

There's a huge world of interesting hardware out there and macOS users are missing out.
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Old 18th April 2017, 8:48 AM   #25
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There is no way a macOS user is going to think Windows 10 is as good as macOS. But the point is that Win10 is now good enough.
Without trying to derail the thread, I've used a lot of computers (and much more than just boring old x86) for a lot more "operational hours" than most. When I hear people tell me that "OS A is better than OS B because workflow", I have to scoff.

Pick any business you like in 2017, and watch what "workflow" means to the average employee. For most, it means logging on to a computer, opening the 3-4 applications they need, and working in them all day.

What an OS does in the background is such a moot point for business today. I mean, I still hear people on the daily tell me "Finder is better than Explorer" and other nonsense, but in that case they really don't mean "objectively better", but "subjectively more pleasing to the individual", which nobody can argue with (each to their own). But when it comes to actually working inside applications, we have folks in our offices who don't know the difference between Linux, macOS and Windows once they're in a maximised application.

Heck, one of our lead compositors here runs a Linux desktop with a Mac keyboard, and all his key bindings set to use the Apple keys like a Mac. While he's operational day to day, his x86/Linux workstation is 1/3 the cost of a Mac Pro, twice as powerful, and to him feels exactly like macOS with his key bindings. We keep costs down, he gets the performance he wants, and his "workflow" is suited perfectly to his needs.

But anyways, again, not trying to derail the thread. In 2017 Apple have a big challenge on their hands when cross-platform use is standard. They're going to have to do something better than just "being Mac" if they want to keep their audience, who by and large were built in an older era, and haven't yet figured out that moving on is trivial.
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Old 18th April 2017, 11:31 AM   #26
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But anyways, again, not trying to derail the thread. In 2017 Apple have a big challenge on their hands when cross-platform use is standard. They're going to have to do something better than just "being Mac" if they want to keep their audience, who by and large were built in an older era, and haven't yet figured out that moving on is trivial.
Excatly. Totally agree.

I spent a while reconfiguring my workflow to be as cloud based as possible. I can now login to Chrome from anywhere and have almost all files. It's trivial. I can pick up a new box and be working in under an hour.

I'm a die hard Mac User and using Linux Mint feels much the same when I'm working in Chrome and Google Docs or Atom etc..

Sure, once you get in the nitty gritty of it macOS is nicer, but when I'm busy and working I dont notice.

If the Adobe suite was formally supported on Linux that would be the end of Windows and macOS for me.
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:31 PM   #27
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Damn now I know why people complain so much about Apple lately.

My flatmate is designer / art director. Spent most of his career on Windows but when we moved to Singapore was forced to use a iMac and Mac Pro.

Because of this he bought an iMac for home. 16GB of ram and a fast SSD.

For years he's complained about using a Mac.

-------------------------

Last week I built him a new computer because to get the Mac Pro fully speced is about 12k SGD.

So built him:
  • Samsung 960 Pro (1TB m.2)
  • i7 7700k
  • 64gb Ram (4x16gb)
  • Dell 32" 4k monitor

(tower cost $4500 and screen was $2200, Singapore dollars)

Among some other parts.

His photoshop files are about 200-600MB in size. If he opened them on his iMac and dragged the assets, all at once, it would crash the mac entirely. The Mac Pro at work would result in the same.

On the MBP 15" 2017 model fully speced out. It would be super super super laggy to drag.


After we fired up the new computer, we opened up the 250mb file, this expanded to 18gb of memory usage. Dragging stuff around was instant.

Opening up a 600mb file expanded to around 26gb.

Opening up 3 files used 44gb, but he could drag assets between the different files instantly.



For 'pros', 16gb of ram simply is not enough.
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Old 1st May 2017, 8:50 PM   #28
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ArsTechnica writes: ' Modern “Hackintoshes” show that Apple should probably just build a Mac tower ':

https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/0...a-place-to-go/
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Old 2nd May 2017, 7:28 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Elyzion View Post
Damn now I know why people complain so much about Apple lately.

My flatmate is designer / art director. Spent most of his career on Windows but when we moved to Singapore was forced to use a iMac and Mac Pro.

Because of this he bought an iMac for home. 16GB of ram and a fast SSD.

For years he's complained about using a Mac.

-------------------------

Last week I built him a new computer because to get the Mac Pro fully speced is about 12k SGD.

So built him:
  • Samsung 960 Pro (1TB m.2)
  • i7 7700k
  • 64gb Ram (4x16gb)
  • Dell 32" 4k monitor

(tower cost $4500 and screen was $2200, Singapore dollars)

Among some other parts.

His photoshop files are about 200-600MB in size. If he opened them on his iMac and dragged the assets, all at once, it would crash the mac entirely. The Mac Pro at work would result in the same.

On the MBP 15" 2017 model fully speced out. It would be super super super laggy to drag.


After we fired up the new computer, we opened up the 250mb file, this expanded to 18gb of memory usage. Dragging stuff around was instant.

Opening up a 600mb file expanded to around 26gb.

Opening up 3 files used 44gb, but he could drag assets between the different files instantly.



For 'pros', 16gb of ram simply is not enough.
600mb photoshop files have been the norm for the last decade and a half. something else is weird there. we were doing files like that on mac's 10 years ago with no trouble. they are not incapable machines, just not top-end or value-oriented.

apple, were thinking of the future in a sense with gpu's...they just chose very poorly by going amd, instead of nvidia/cuda. hopefully they'll re-introduce a proper desktop, with all the slots and ports...but we all know that wont happen.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 8:24 AM   #30
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ArsTechnica writes: ' Modern “Hackintoshes” show that Apple should probably just build a Mac tower ':

https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/0...a-place-to-go/
At this point they should license Mac OS.
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