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Old 20th March 2017, 1:10 PM   #1
Embercide Thread Starter
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Default NBN (HFC) contention - Business vs Home plans?

I'm currently on Telstra cable, 100/2 and my suburb is due to change over to NBN (HFC) in a couple of months. We've already started to receive the junkmail from ISPs.

As most of my street/suburb would currently be on ADSL and will be pushed onto the cable I currently enjoy maxing out at any time day or night, i'm concerned i'll no longer get my full speeds.

In making the decision which ISP/plan to go with, can anyone shed some light on:
  1. Business plan contention vs Home plan contention - any difference? More Telecom claim to me that i'll experience the full 100/40 on their business plan
  2. Would you expect Telstra home plans to have more bandwidth per subscriber than the TPG's and the iinets, since its their cable?
  3. Any other recommendations?
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Old 20th March 2017, 1:22 PM   #2
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Would you expect Telstra home plans to have more bandwidth per subscriber than the TPG's and the iinets, since its their cable?
it will no longer be Telstra's cable, it will be NBN's. there will be no difference in per-ISP performance other than that chosen by the ISP managing their CVC overbooking rates.
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Old 20th March 2017, 1:47 PM   #3
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So would you think Telstra is less likely to overbook ?
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Old 20th March 2017, 2:14 PM   #4
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My understanding is there is no definition within NBN itself for a Business Grade service at present

someone explained it to me once, but it's to do with CVCs or something.

HFC in itself though, is a shared media, like you already seem to be aware. Nothing about NBN is likely to change that at this time


what I'm not clear on myself is how having multiple carriers on an HFC circuit works, whether contention/congestion relates to a single provider, or the whole segment regardless of provider (if that makes sense)
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Old 20th March 2017, 3:04 PM   #5
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So would you think Telstra is less likely to overbook ?
I don't think there is a direct correlation to be made. CVC contention is easier to manage the more services you have, but that's no guarantee of what occurs. there are small access seekers that have a reputation for getting it "right" and large ones with a reputation for getting it "wrong".

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My understanding is there is no definition within NBN itself for a Business Grade service at present

someone explained it to me once, but it's to do with CVCs or something.
the only concepts of "business" that apply to currently NBN are traffic class, which is just QoS, and selectable restoration SLA. both are there for the asking, for any service. the RSP might put a label on them called "business grade" but that's marketing. NBN sells them to anyone who wants them.

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HFC in itself though, is a shared media, like you already seem to be aware. Nothing about NBN is likely to change that at this time
the HFC cable itself is a shared medium, but so is a fibre FTTP service. sharing a network segment isn't automatically a problem, it's all in whether that's the bottleneck.

Quote:
what I'm not clear on myself is how having multiple carriers on an HFC circuit works, whether contention/congestion relates to a single provider, or the whole segment regardless of provider (if that makes sense)
the cable itself, or the nodes that serve it, are not the limitation to my knowledge. that's why you get variable peak hour performance between providers, in the same area.
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Old 21st March 2017, 12:15 PM   #6
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the cable itself, or the nodes that serve it, are not the limitation to my knowledge. that's why you get variable peak hour performance between providers, in the same area.
do you mean on a historical, Pre-NBN basis, or currently with NBN?
I always thought they optus and telstra ran different physical HFC cables.

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Old 21st March 2017, 12:45 PM   #7
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Optus and Telstra maintained totally separate networks.

nevertheless, the cable was not the issue. it was equipment or link capacity upstream of that.
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Old 21st March 2017, 5:42 PM   #8
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Thats' good to know.
So you're saying, in theory, once my class21 address goes sService Ready, if I pick an alternate ISP to Optus, I should see less congestion during peak? (As long as I don't pick someone like dodo for instance)
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Old 21st March 2017, 5:46 PM   #9
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should see less congestion during peak?
You will see different congestion depending on how your provider manages congestion. For better or worse

It also depends on where the congestion occurs.

CVC based congestion will vary between provider
Last mile HFC based congestion will be the same between all providers for a given last mile segment, but i would hope that NBN provides sufficient capacity. They might not.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 1:19 PM   #10
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When NBN takes over HFC, will we still be using the hobbled DOCSIS 3.0/1.0 up/down specification which Telstra and Optus have delivered or will we be using a full 3.0 spec until the point when they can switch everyone on with DOCSIS 3.1?
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Old 22nd March 2017, 1:21 PM   #11
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Full specification, not this 100/2 crap.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 1:58 PM   #12
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Full specification, not this 100/2 crap.
That's brilliant to know. Thanks.
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I find it more and more difficult to purchase electronic consumer goods that are produced outside of China. All because of Kogan. They are the company who started all of this. Thank goodness for apple. I may get charged a fortune, but at least I know the goods are being made by happy, well paid workers.
I am disappointed in my life
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Old 22nd March 2017, 6:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehCamel View Post
Thats' good to know.
So you're saying, in theory, once my class21 address goes sService Ready, if I pick an alternate ISP to Optus, I should see less congestion during peak? (As long as I don't pick someone like dodo for instance)
I have no idea how Optus manage their network now and where their bottlenecks are. I can only comment that if a landline NBN connection congests, it's not because of the NBN network.

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Originally Posted by dcyloo View Post
When NBN takes over HFC, will we still be using the hobbled DOCSIS 3.0/1.0 up/down specification which Telstra and Optus have delivered or will we be using a full 3.0 spec until the point when they can switch everyone on with DOCSIS 3.1?
the speeds you can order are, as with most NBN specifications, published for all to see. see table 7.6.8 of:

http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/...c_20170109.pdf
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Old 23rd March 2017, 11:31 AM   #14
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the speeds you can order are, as with most NBN specifications, published for all to see. see table 7.6.8 of:

http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/...c_20170109.pdf
Yes - understand that. This is when DOCSIS 3.1 is implemented.

I've seen no statement anywhere that when NBN takes over the HFC that DOCSIS 3.1 will be immediately implemented. So I'm going on the suspicion that when NBN takes over the HFC, it'll remain DOCSIS 3.0 until they can roll out the 3.1 compatible modems to all the homes.

So while I understand that I can order a 100/40 connection, will it be an upload speed of 2mbps because they won't change the 3.0/1.8 DOCSIS specification that currently exists until they do a full 3.1 conversion?
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I find it more and more difficult to purchase electronic consumer goods that are produced outside of China. All because of Kogan. They are the company who started all of this. Thank goodness for apple. I may get charged a fortune, but at least I know the goods are being made by happy, well paid workers.
I am disappointed in my life
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Old 23rd March 2017, 12:03 PM   #15
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So while I understand that I can order a 100/40 connection, will it be an upload speed of 2mbps because they won't change the 3.0/1.8 DOCSIS specification that currently exists until they do a full 3.1 conversion?
I don't profess to have any knowledge of what NBN are doing but the thing about the D3.1 spec is that is can be progressively rolled out in phases.

What I mean is that NBN are able to do a partial D3.1 upgrade as part of a phased specification implementation, and still provide the improved upload speeds if they choose. For instance the spec allows that NBN could leave D3.0 for the downstream in the meantime and focus on rolling out D3.1 upstream if that was deemed the highest priority. Really it all depends on their roadmap.

Only point being that waiting for the full D3.1 implementation isn't a requirement for faster uploads or downloads.
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