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Old 5th July 2015, 6:13 PM   #31
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it's not that simple.
They cross licence technologies, most notably on AMD side, x86-64. but there's many others (on both sides). It's a two way street, and as such they would likely strike a deal, just as they did with the creation of Global Foundries, which technically also violated the licencing agreement.

Edit- and to clarify - No AMD can't revoke any licences even if Intel was to terminate AMD's, but the point is, a strong cross licencing relationship is in the best interest to both companies, now and in future.
Yeah this. Intel need x86-64 to exist and remember who made it? AMD.
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Old 6th July 2015, 6:04 AM   #32
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Yeah this. Intel need x86-64 to exist and remember who made it? AMD.
Sure, but AMD started as an Intel clone in the first place.
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Old 6th July 2015, 8:00 AM   #33
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Sure, but AMD started as an Intel clone in the first place.
No they didn't
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Old 6th July 2015, 8:20 AM   #34
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No they didn't
of course they did.

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Intel had created the first microprocessor, its 4-bit 4004, in 1971. By 1975, AMD entered the microprocessor market with the Am9080, a reverse-engineered clone of the Intel 8080, and the Am2900 bit-slice microprocessor family. When Intel began installing microcode in its microprocessors in 1976, it entered into a cross-licencing agreement with AMD, granting AMD a copyright license to the microcode in its microprocessors and peripherals, effective October 1976.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices

They started as an Intel clone, and remained - with a brief interruption - always inferior to Intel, and that's the reason why they were always in financial difficulties and sometimes close to bankruptcy.

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Old 6th July 2015, 10:34 AM   #35
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of course they did.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices

They started as an Intel clone,

No They started as a manufacturer of discrete logic, It's in your own source!


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and remained - with a brief interruption - always inferior to Intel, and that's the reason why they were always in financial difficulties and sometimes close to bankruptcy
If you call 7 years (with a far smaller period in between!) "brief", I guess.

That's not why they've been so piss poor financially though.. It is entirely possible to have 'inferior' products and be profitable..

You're a Porsche man.. so I'm sure you'd consider a Porsche superior to a Corolla.. A far fetched Analogy, but you know what i'm getting at.
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Old 6th July 2015, 11:55 AM   #36
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No They started as a manufacturer of discrete logic, It's in your own source!
Sure, but sounds a bit like hairsplitting. The business we discuss here, and everybody has in mind when talking about AMD are microprocessor, and that was based on cloning Intel inventions.

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You're a Porsche man.. so I'm sure you'd consider a Porsche superior to a Corolla.. A far fetched Analogy, but you know what i'm getting at.
But Porsche makes tons of money. Better product, means you can charge higher prices, and make more money.

Anyway, it seems the days of AMD as an independent company are counted. It looks like they are sooner or later swallowed up and become a manufacturing outlet of a bigger company, like Nokia for MS.

Last edited by chainbolt; 6th July 2015 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 6th July 2015, 12:00 PM   #37
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I would have thought if anyone was in the market for AMD it would be Apple.
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Old 6th July 2015, 2:16 PM   #38
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I would have thought if anyone was in the market for AMD it would be Apple.
Apple and Samsung tbh. Both have the cash and it makes logical sense for them - although Apple less so than Samsung.

Apple is really a phone company now - every iteration of the mac platform just hints towards the day when they dump x86 entirely and just use arm.
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Old 6th July 2015, 9:55 PM   #39
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Sure, but sounds a bit like hairsplitting. The business we discuss here, and everybody has in mind when talking about AMD are microprocessor, and that was based on cloning Intel inventions.

Well, it may seem like splitting hairs, but in the context of the era, it's not really. At that time there were many many other fish in the sea, including AMD's own bit 2900 series bit slice family that you failed to highlight

The fact it, and others wern't technically microprocessors is probably more splitting hairs to be honest, as it was not until later that VSLI allowed the microprocessor to be the top-bottom solution.

AMD wern't riding on Intel's IP until the 1980s, with the somewhat unexpected rise of the 8086 based IBM PC.

A much more exciting and wonderful story, that brings us here to this very forum today. and one that may never have played out had IBM not chosen the x86 path, and had not insisted on a second source supplier for it (AMD)



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But Porsche makes tons of money. Better product, means you can charge higher prices, and make more money.

Anyway, it seems the days of AMD as an independent company are counted. It looks like they are sooner or later swallowed up and become a manufacturing outlet of a bigger company, like Nokia for MS.
Well Intel was Porsche in my Analogy, so yes.. My point was you can still make money out of corolla's.

It's certainly not the same for CPU world, but AMD still could have done better to make a Niche for itself even if they aren't able to compete for the high end, instead of now leaving every segment wide open for Intel.
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Old 6th July 2015, 10:29 PM   #40
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Apple and Samsung tbh. Both have the cash and it makes logical sense for them - although Apple less so than Samsung.

Apple is really a phone company now - every iteration of the mac platform just hints towards the day when they dump x86 entirely and just use arm.
Agreed on both points.

I somewhat think Apple begrudgingly "need" desktops/laptops/workstations right now, but they'll dump that the moment they can get away with it. XServe was proof that as soon as they didn't need servers, they bailed on that market.

An investment for Apple in x86 tech wouldn't be a long game. ARM makes a lot more sense, as they can control the entire manufacturing process even without owning the technology, and it's more suited to the mobile market which continues to explode year on year.

At their high end, Apple have already given the middle finger to x86. The current Mac Pro is a single-socket-only, dual-GPU workstation. Apple clearly see the future of workstation performance (particularly in media, which is where they target their workstations) coming from GPGPU workloads, and not generic CPU workloads.

On the low-end desktop front, they're doing their best to merge iOS and MacOSX into one product. It wouldn't surprise me if we see ARM-powered iMacs within 5 years, and a unified OS across their mobile and desktop segments (something Microsoft is also trying to move towards).
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Old 8th July 2015, 9:59 PM   #41
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I dont get why AMD is going bankrupt really they're are in both the CPU and GPU market. With the GPU market they have some new tech over Nvidia such as Freesync (which is apparently better and free rather than Nvidia Gsync) and the new HBM memory which is apparently better than GDDR5. I don't get why stuff like these dont get them ahead of the game.
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Old 8th July 2015, 10:17 PM   #42
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I dont get why AMD is going bankrupt really they're are in both the CPU and GPU market. With the GPU market they have some new tech over Nvidia such as Freesync (which is apparently better and free rather than Nvidia Gsync) and the new HBM memory which is apparently better than GDDR5. I don't get why stuff like these dont get them ahead of the game.
Revenue has to exceed outgoing costs, making a profit.

Marketing, meeting market demands etc all plays a part.
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Old 8th July 2015, 10:41 PM   #43
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First Nokia, now AMD, what's next Blackberry?

Bill does like to give money to charities.
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Old 8th July 2015, 11:33 PM   #44
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the whole issue with someone buying out amd is that they are now a fabless semiconductor company (since they sold off global foundries)... most of the potential buyers you mention would want a fab to be able to produce their own chips to their own timing...

however I could seriously see an amd-samsung merger/buyout... because what amd needs to become competitive in terms of perf/watt is a fab with an equal or better process node to intel, and what they also need is a fab that actually cares about the timely release of their products.... which samsung has both of.... could you imagine if amd suddenly went from producing aprox. 30nm chips to producing at 12nm.... in all likelyhood, it would mean that amd ends up on top, samsung gets access to as many chips as it wants and both companies win out, with samsung (potentially) making massive profits... which makes the samsung buy out much more likely... because they have something to gain....

but then again, if microsoft were to buy out amd.. they could simply optimise windows better for amd and amd's profits rise, which also makes them more profits... however they have to deal with a whole ton of anti-competitive crap to make that work... meaning that samsung is a better potential buyer..
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Old 9th July 2015, 9:15 AM   #45
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however I could seriously see an amd-samsung merger/buyout... because what amd needs to become competitive in terms of perf/watt is a fab with an equal or better process node to intel
lol. No. Samsung isn't even close to Intel. When you start talking yields as well as process - they are 1.5-2 years behind.

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but then again, if microsoft were to buy out amd.. they could simply optimise windows better for amd and amd's profits rise,
Also lol no. Why the hell would you alienate close to 98% of your server market and easily high 70-80% of your desktop market? And tempt the wrath of the EU/DoJ again?
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