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Old 10th February 2016, 11:03 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Brad View Post
AMD make all these claims about anti-competitive behaviour damaging their business but it just so happened to coincide with them falling behind.
Actually, it coincided with Intel being behind when they had the Pentium 4 vs the Athlon XP's, then Athlon 64's. AMD couldn't get market share despite having the better CPU at the time.

It was one of a combination of things that put AMD behind, which I would say included Hector Ruiz being absolutely useless.
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Old 10th February 2016, 11:39 PM   #17
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It turned out that single move bought them enough time to find out that they left their underpants with the Pentium Pro.
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Old 11th February 2016, 12:45 PM   #18
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Intel are awfully non-competitive but AMD crying about it doesn't help either, drop a lawsuit like the Toshiba incident if you can prove it, otherwise drop Zen with one hell of a bang.
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Old 11th February 2016, 12:51 PM   #19
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Intel are awfully non-competitive but AMD crying about it doesn't help either, drop a lawsuit like the Toshiba incident if you can prove it, otherwise drop Zen with one hell of a bang.
They could prove it. Intel's compiler did deliberately make slower code that would run on non-Intel CPU's.
Sysmark would magically run faster on a Via Nano CPU if you changed the CPUID string from "CentaurHauls" to "AuthenticAMD", and even faster if you changed it to "GenuineIntel".
Although you can't change the CPUID string on an AMD or Intel CPU.

Intel couldn't actually win the case, because AMD were right. What they did was drag the court case on over many years.
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Old 11th February 2016, 1:11 PM   #20
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They could prove it. Intel's compiler did deliberately make slower code that would run on non-Intel CPU's.
Sysmark would magically run faster on a Via Nano CPU if you changed the CPUID string from "CentaurHauls" to "AuthenticAMD", and even faster if you changed it to "GenuineIntel".
Although you can't change the CPUID string on an AMD or Intel CPU.

Intel couldn't actually win the case, because AMD were right. What they did was drag the court case on over many years.
Ok, you have a point but yes, Intel would drag the court case out until it was no longer relevant in the market and AMD would have gained nothing.
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Old 11th February 2016, 1:12 PM   #21
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Ok, you have a point but yes, Intel would drag the court case out until it was no longer relevant in the market and AMD would have gained nothing.
Maybe you missed the part where AMD did have the superior product (Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4) and they still couldn't get market share.
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Old 11th February 2016, 1:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
Maybe you missed the part where AMD did have the superior product (Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4) and they still couldn't get market share.
They did get a certain amount, but 1 generation doth not make a company.

Also, their chipsets were garbage and boards almost non-existant. So they could not provide a platform solution which is a big deal for OEMs.
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Old 11th February 2016, 4:07 PM   #23
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They did get a certain amount, but 1 generation doth not make a company.
The Pentium 4 was around for many years. They definitely should have gotten more market share than they did.

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Also, their chipsets were garbage and boards almost non-existant. So they could not provide a platform solution which is a big deal for OEMs.
The chipsets used in OEM machines didn't need to be particularly good for a machine that was only intended to run at stock settings.
The people that did overclock and tweak their systems were going with motherboards that used nvidia nforce chipsets, and they were actually pretty good.

I mean, the integrated graphics from Via was pretty terrible, but then so was the integrated graphics from Intel too. A lot of them would have at least used a basic AGP graphics card, such as a Radeon 9200SE, or Geforce FX5200.
It was only when the 780G chipset came out that integrated graphics got a big kick in the pants.
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Old 11th February 2016, 4:08 PM   #24
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The chipsets used in OEM machines didn't need to be particularly good for a machine that was only intended to run at stock settings.
The people that did overclock were going with motherboards that used nvidia nforce chipsets, and they were actually pretty good.
they need rock solid first party chipsets, which AMD could not provide and third party stuff like VIA and nVidia was all over the shop.

The biggest dent they made was the enthusiast sector.
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Old 11th February 2016, 4:33 PM   #25
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they need rock solid first party chipsets, which AMD could not provide and third party stuff like VIA and nVidia was all over the shop.
Everything was all over the shop at that time. There wasn't a nearly as much consolidation of manufacturers in general.
It would have been a much bigger deal choosing hard drive manufacturers. And there were a whole bunch of unreliable hard drives used in OEM machines.
IBM "Deathstar" (Deskstar), Quantum Fireball, Maxtor were pretty bad at some points (Maxtor did also acquire Quantum).

There were also a lot of absolutely terrible power supplies used all over the place, too, which would often die and take a bunch of components out with them.
Really, I'm surprised SHAW is even still in business making power supplies today.

Then there's the fact that so many manufacturers were stingy on the amount of RAM they would put into machines.

Yeah, I think the quality of Via chipsets would be pretty low on the list of things wrong with OEM machines generally.
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Old 11th February 2016, 4:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
Everything was all over the shop at that time. There wasn't a nearly as much consolidation of manufacturers in general.
It would have been a much bigger deal choosing hard drive manufacturers. And there were a whole bunch of unreliable hard drives used in OEM machines.
IBM "Deathstar" (Deskstar), Quantum Fireball, Maxtor were pretty bad at some points (Maxtor did also acquire Quantum).

There were also a lot of absolutely terrible power supplies used all over the place, too, which would often die and take a bunch of components out with them.
Really, I'm surprised SHAW is even still in business making power supplies today.

Then there's the fact that so many manufacturers were stingy on the amount of RAM they would put into machines.

Yeah, I think the quality of Via chipsets would be pretty low on the list of things wrong with OEM machines generally.
Intel chipsets and boards are accepted industry wide as the first choice when you want reliability for good reason - regardless of all the other shit.
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Old 11th February 2016, 6:03 PM   #27
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Intel chipsets and boards are accepted industry wide as the first choice when you want reliability for good reason - regardless of all the other shit.
Today they are.
But I remember back when the Pentium 4's were around. I wouldn't say their chipsets were leagues ahead of the better third party chipsets. Especially the Nvidia ones.
The Via chipsets were definitely reasonable enough for stock/OEM systems. They were about in the same league as Realtek LAN/audio chips. They were cheap, but solid enough for a pre-built machine running at stock, though they were definitely not an enthusiast part.

Nvidia did have a large portion of the enthusiast chipset market with Core 2's and Athlon 64's. But then:
• AMD acquired ATI and started making their own chipsets that were actually good
• AMD lost a lot of the enthusiast market to Intel, so Nvidia lost interest in making AMD chipsets, especially when competing against AMD's own chipsets
• Intel shut Nvidia out of their chipset market entirely, by denying them the ability to make chipsets using QPI, which is used in all the core i7/i5/i3 chips starting from Bloomfield/Lynnfield - Intel took them to court and won, arguing they were only allowed to make chipsets for CPUs using a FSB.

And of course Via had nowhere to go in the chipset market, because AMD's own chipsets covered all market segments including the low end, with vastly superior onboard graphics in the 780G chipset that also saved people money by not having to buy a cheap PCI-E graphics card.
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Old 11th February 2016, 10:33 PM   #28
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Today they are..
How so?

Theres bugger all to a chipset anymore, and I would say Todays AMD chipsets are easily on par with Intel's when it comes to platform stability. In fact they've had less (none?) critical bugs than intel have in the last ~5 yrs or so (critical enough to cause recalls, and re-spins)

They also answer the problem mentioned by Power by being all in house now.

As I think I mentioned before perhaps in another thread. It's the most significant plus to come out of the Ati aquisition. And whilst they may have paid far too much, it's hard to imagine what their platform would look like right now if they hadn't Aquired them.
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Old 11th February 2016, 11:24 PM   #29
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All this reminds me of is how much i wish amd were competitive again. The market has shrunk so much. Not enough variation. Nit enough choice.
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Old 11th February 2016, 11:26 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
Maybe you missed the part where AMD did have the superior product (Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4) and they still couldn't get market share.
I also recall Intel being brought to court by AMD over this era due to Intel's anti-competitive business conduct (something about Intel coercing brands like HP by withdrawing their product entirely if that company offered AMD products) and AMD won the court case. The damage was done though and although hefty the anti-competitive actions seemed to have worked out better for Intel in the long run.
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