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Old Yesterday, 7:00 AM   #4186
Phido
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IMO the strongest use for more cores is 3D rendering. I want to see cinebenches for Eypc

Did anyone notice that EPYC 16 core lineup starts around $600 USD?
So I would assume Threadrippers 16 core lineup would start at a similar price or lower for a low clocked part. Imagine the overclocking possibilities.

I imagine Threadrippers introduction will basically see ryzen 5/7 processors fall in price significantly. Threadripper will most likely start at prices the 7 series are currently.

That is going to play havoc with Intel.

AMD has 8 cores at a decent clock on the consumer line already in market. There are heaps of AM4 boards and they are cheap and well featured. It's going to be a great platform for ITX-ATX.

Threadripper with 16 cores (although 32 could fit in the package) will see AMD shift a lot of product. ATX +atxe maybe mATX. I can see these boards falling in price quite quickly, as volume will be huge. Cheap CPu's to put on it.

If you think of AM2-AM3+ being the same platform that is nearly a 10 year socket. While not exactly one continuous socket, AMD did a lot to smooth the transition.

I get kaybex. Intel is paranoid that it won't have anything to offer its x299 at that price point.
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Old Yesterday, 8:09 AM   #4187
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Why would threadripper, which is basically 2 chips linked together, come in at the price of r7 series (single chips)? It should be close to the current intel xtreme price points for the consumer level jobbies.
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Old Yesterday, 9:36 AM   #4188
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Entry Threadripper SKU's will be two x 6core (harvested 8c) , A single 6 core currently starts at under AU$300 , so no reason 12c TR can't start under AU$600

Irrespective of that, As yields increase, prices can be adjusted (downward) across the board. - The fact AMD sell RX480/580 - a larger die on the same process for much less than Ryzen is evidence there's already a lot of room to move.

AMD also holds a significant die size advantage over SKYLAKE-X on a core-core basis. So assuming 14nmLPP is mature and relatively cheap now (which is the general consensus) :

12 to 16 Core threadripper: 2x ~190mm2 = ~380mm2

6 to 10 Core Skylake-X : 1x ~320mm2

12 to 18 Core Syklake-X: 1x ~490mm2



Whilst you can't use die size alone to directly compare with any accuracy (since yields and wafer costs are different) when the difference is that large, it's hard to ignore.
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Old Yesterday, 10:03 AM   #4189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phido View Post
IMO the strongest use for more cores is 3D rendering. I want to see cinebenches for Eypc

Did anyone notice that EPYC 16 core lineup starts around $600 USD?
So I would assume Threadrippers 16 core lineup would start at a similar price or lower for a low clocked part. Imagine the overclocking possibilities.

I imagine Threadrippers introduction will basically see ryzen 5/7 processors fall in price significantly. Threadripper will most likely start at prices the 7 series are currently.

That is going to play havoc with Intel.
No its not. The price of the CPU is only half the equalsion. The overall platform is still not mature enough and there is too many bugs and funny buggers. You only have to look at this thread to see.

No IT manager will sign off on a deployment project on systems with these clouds having over their heads.

The strength of the Intel Xeons were never just performance but the overall compatbility and relaibilty as a package and this includes the high end Workstation which ultimately is where Threadripper / EPYC majority of their sales will come from.

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Old Yesterday, 10:42 AM   #4190
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It would be naive to think Intel's reputation and the sheer amount of time they've had near 100% market penetration wouldn't be a huge factor in stifling uptake of EPYC.. but to say no one will buy is pretty extreme.. We will have to wait for full testing, but if performance/watt/skt/$ claims stack up.

The problems you talk about are largely irrelevant to Server. If the weren't you can be certain AMD wouldn't have bothered launching. The issue around VME for example - a signficiant bug but which, like all the 1000's of other small errata present in both Innel and AMD platforms - is very circumstance specific, so if it doesn't affect you, don't worry about it.
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Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM   #4191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosaki View Post
No its not. The price of the CPU is only half the equalsion. The overall platform is still not mature enough and there is too many bugs and funny buggers. You only have to look at this thread to see.

No IT manager will sign off on a deployment project on systems with these clouds having over their heads.

The strength of the Intel Xeons were never just performance but the overall compatbility and relaibilty as a package and this includes the high end Workstation which ultimately is where Threadripper / EPYC majority of their sales will come from.
Your so wrong its not funny.

X86 killed RISC based on price/perf.
AMD took intels server market share with Opteron on price/perf
Intel took it back with price/perf.


Also yes look at this thread, if everyone ran their memory @ 2666mhz how many "issues" would their be. This launch is no different then when Intel launch Nehalem, the process that took all of AMD's server market share. The initial C0 stepping was way more buggy then Ryzen ( I know I got a 920 day 1) and was also a hot mess, it was originally "HETD" only. The server release got a new stepping , just like EYPC is.......

AMD will get lots of sales and its simple maths as to why, they can from a TCO perspective offer big improvements in platform costs. Intel will struggle/resist reducing prices because AMD will be capacity limited any way. Reducing prices across the board will loose more money then just ignoring AMD at this point.

WTF does compatibility and reliability even mean? Power and Mainframe have way more RAS capabilities then intel server parts, that's really helped them! If you want to talk compatibility, then Zen is the most compatible of all processors as there are instructions on atom that are in Zen but not skylake........

Just got look at datacenter networking space to see the big boys don't give a toss about any of the "history" of compatibility and reliability on forward purchasing decisions.......
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Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM   #4192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosaki View Post
No its not. The price of the CPU is only half the equalsion. The overall platform is still not mature enough and there is too many bugs and funny buggers. You only have to look at this thread to see.

No IT manager will sign off on a deployment project on systems with these clouds having over their heads.

The strength of the Intel Xeons were never just performance but the overall compatbility and relaibilty as a package and this includes the high end Workstation which ultimately is where Threadripper / EPYC majority of their sales will come from.
The CPU is only part of it, and a lesser part when in the work station end. 64Gb DDr4 of ECC and a quadro card might be a lot more than your CPU cost.

But with Ryzen/Threadripper/Epyc all sharing the same die, essentially the same bios and design, fixes should filter through pretty quickly. It is good they are holding off on Threadripper to mature things a bit more.

TBH the 299 platform seems as buggy and problematic as the initial AM4 launch.

I think AMD will do ok with this new generation.

AMD actually did pretty well with the original Opteron 6100 and socket G34.

It was C32 that was a complete waste of space, no one wanted single amd dies on two sockets. Threadripper addresses that.

HP and dell enterprise are already on board. These systems will sell.
https://www.hpcwire.com/2017/06/20/a...pyc-processor/

What is very interesting is the power per watt in the 2-3 Ghz range. Extremely competitive. There will be certain features that many will find irresistible.
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Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM   #4193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phido View Post

What is very interesting is the power per watt in the 2-3 Ghz range. Extremely competitive. There will be certain features that many will find irresistible.
I agree, and the lanes/memory channels are awesome for the price. Now lets see how the infinity fabric / multi CCX design actually performs IRL.
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Old Yesterday, 12:58 PM   #4194
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AMD said that EPYC is available now. So when are reviews expected to be out?
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Old Yesterday, 1:04 PM   #4195
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What I want to see is benchmarks from 3rd parties that aren't biased...
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Old Yesterday, 2:24 PM   #4196
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Although I personally have no use for Threadripper, I'm very interested to see how extra RAM channels effect the performance compared to Ryzen.
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Old Yesterday, 4:31 PM   #4197
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Most cases the extra memory channels do not make a big difference.

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-ryze...ormance_192960

There would be specific scientific/server related work cases that would be measureable.

The big thing is big memory and memory clocks. You can put 64Gb into a AM4, but 128 GB in a thread ripper (of unregistered dual rank), or 64Gb of fast single rank memory (3200+mhz). With Epyc you will be able to put 2TB of (registered) memory per node.
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Old Yesterday, 4:38 PM   #4198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phido View Post
Most cases the extra memory channels do not make a big difference.

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-ryze...ormance_192960

There would be specific scientific/server related work cases that would be measureable.

The big thing is big memory and memory clocks. You can put 64Gb into a AM4, but 128 GB in a thread ripper (of unregistered dual rank), or 64Gb of fast single rank memory (3200+mhz). With Epyc you will be able to put 2TB of (registered) memory per node.
That's been the case to date with Intel HEDT as well.

Lower clocked Quad Channel with tight timings vs higher clocked Dual Channel with relaxed timings are what I've been asked about a bit for people planning builds post tax time, but obviously I can't compare yet.


Large RAM systems is a whole different situation and one I don't work with at all.
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Old Yesterday, 9:31 PM   #4199
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So here's what an Epyc server board looks like. Got ram yo?

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/gig...imm_slots.html
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Old Yesterday, 11:12 PM   #4200
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Quote:
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So here's what an Epyc server board looks like. Got ram yo?

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/gig...imm_slots.html
Good, I can't wait to fuck off secondary storage!
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