Have LCD's matched CRT black levels yet/Any place to get 24" CRT in Syd?

[proffesso]

yep, try a pro lcd. nec spectraview 241 here, calibrated with a colormunki...blacks are dead black

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by trackhappy

I've had loads of CRTs in the past. Including expensive ones. None of them ever did blacks that I found impressive. I honestly have no idea what you're all on about when you say that CRTs have better blacks. All my blacks were grey. And the ones that weren't grey were either fucked or had their brightness turned all the way down.

In fact, I found no reason to keep them at all, apart from being able to use them as stress relief from time to time. CRT diehards (do they still even exist?) don't know what they're missing... especially when you take the AG coat off.

Don't know what's up with that, maybe they were old and tired. My CRT has (had ) amazing blacks and gradations in the black range. When playing very dark games - like The Dark Mod, Thief 2 or Arma 2 - at night I literally had to wait for my nightvision to kick in and had to avoid bright spots to avoid temporarily blinding myself.

Still, no choice but to enter the 21st century now, and it looks like I will have to go with a super high res IPS panel.

Originally Posted by kambo_rambo

Go to your computer store and see for yourself what a 27" 1440p IPS looks like. If only to check out colours and resolutions. Examples include the Dell screens and Apple Cinema.

Personally Id prefer gaming at a high resolution.

I'm sure it looks great for general use but if performance is halved that tends to sour the deal quite a bit for gaming. 2560x1440 is a HELL of a resolution to be trying to drive!

Still, it looks like I will have no alternative. I tried the Samsung plasma downstairs but while its sharp, at 1-1.5m you can see visual artifacts and various flashing pixels on it, so it's not an effective replacement.

An IPS panel as big as I can get as cheap as I can get is thus the best replacement, but that basically means the 27" Catleaps with the massive 1440p resolution.

EDIT: What if I just set the res down to 1920x1080, even if that means the screen is now scaling the image? Is the resolution on these high enough to pull it off without much quality loss? On the 2233BW anything but native (1680x1050) looks horrible.

[AEKaBeer]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

EDIT: What if I just set the res down to 1920x1080, even if that means the screen is now scaling the image? Is the resolution on these high enough to pull it off without much quality loss? On the 2233BW anything but native (1680x1050) looks horrible.

Dropping the res won't look good.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by AEKaBeer

Dropping the res won't look good.

Bugger. The res (2560x1440) is just at the point where halving isn't really an option (1280x720) yet trying to run games at its native res will halve framerates.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Right, stuff it. I have decided. I am going to go for a 27", probably the Catleap 27" 2560x1440, like so many people have. It's reasonably priced, IPS and 27", which is about as close to what I have been going for as I can get.

Two last questions - is there a 3d capable 27" monitor that looks as good as an IPS panel and what is this whole 120hz business? Should I pay a premium/wait for one of the 120hz overclocking Catleaps or just pull the trigger on a 60hz standard version?

[[KEi]SoVeReIgN]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

Samsung's are 'decent'. The ones you described are top end and bloody expensive.

So your question should be "Have cheap LCDs matched CRT black levels" - No they haven't. But a great LCD will blow a CRT out of the water IMO. I used to run two Sony G500s - Great CRTs. Went to a Dell IPS Ultrasharp and never looked back.

Originally Posted by kambo_rambo

You realise Dell,Apple and Yumcha all use LG panels right ? The one im using in my catleap turns out to be the exact same one in the Apple Cinema even.

@OP have you tried 27" monitors at 1920x1080 ? Might be hard to find ones that are IPS.

Yep I know Dell and Apple use the same LG panel, I don't know if the Catleap uses the exact same (I'd be surprised) and I'm sure 99% of the 27" Yumcha monitors out there don't use it. But either way it's not just about the panel, Apple and Dell have used the same panels for years and got very different results through processing etc.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by [KEi]SoVeReIgN

So your question should be "Have cheap LCDs matched CRT black levels" - No they haven't. But a great LCD will blow a CRT out of the water IMO. I used to run two Sony G500s - Great CRTs. Went to a Dell IPS Ultrasharp and never looked back.

I doubt even an IPS will match CRT blacks, but that's beside the point. This thread and thread title were made quite a while back - I have moved on (no choice anyway, my CRT died). I'm now trying to decide what to replace my CRT with.

Incidentally, which Dell IPS monitor have you got?

Originally Posted by [KEi]SoVeReIgN

Yep I know Dell and Apple use the same LG panel, I don't know if the Catleap uses the exact same (I'd be surprised) and I'm sure 99% of the 27" Yumcha monitors out there don't use it. But either way it's not just about the panel, Apple and Dell have used the same panels for years and got very different results through processing etc.

Would you recommend a Dell 2709, which, while older now, is more of a resolution I like, or a Catleap 27" which is newer and likely better IPS panel?

[walker_2003]

Apparently the catleaps at over 60hz have been known to frame skip. So I would buy one only expecting 60hz any better is bonus. They r cheap and flimsy I'd still go a dell any day but $

[irR4tiOn4L]

Thanks, I've heard the Dell's have an AG filter that is too aggressive and they do cost twice as much as the Catleaps.

Do you know if the older Dell IPS's like the Dell 2709 match the more modern Dell 2711 for image quality?

Also, are there any decent 3d choices (ie quality of IPS but active 3d)?

[kambo_rambo]

Originally Posted by [KEi]SoVeReIgN

Yep I know Dell and Apple use the same LG panel, I don't know if the Catleap uses the exact same (I'd be surprised) and I'm sure 99% of the 27" Yumcha monitors out there don't use it. But either way it's not just about the panel, Apple and Dell have used the same panels for years and got very different results through processing etc.

Catleap and apply cinema use the EXACT same panel. Dell use a similar LG panel but not the same. What is different is the PCBs. Your 99% sure is based on nothing, and information is all over the 25 page catleap thread in this subforum.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Looked up 3d monitors, only TN panels as far as I could see and considering that Nvidia have been pricks about 3d (seriously? First you cut longstanding 3d driver and gpu support, charging for what used to be free and requiring use of your gear and now you cut CRT monitor support?) without getting more developers on board, I'm not sure I want to compromise my panel for the chance that a game may or may not work right.

I could get that Plasma and 3d support to boot, but it seemed to look a bit fuzzy at 1-1.5m and since Plasma's are all scaled anyway (apparently they have way more than 1920x1080 pixels) waiting for a 4k plasma might be wiser.

So it looks like I'll go with the Catleap which seems like an awesome deal, and maybe supplement that in future.

[trackhappy]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

Thanks, I've heard the Dell's have an AG filter that is too aggressive and they do cost twice as much as the Catleaps.

That is true, but remove the AG filter like some brave souls here have, and the monitors are jaw-dropping. I plan on doing this mod to mine at some point.

EDIT: Have a link. Enjoy

[OldnBold]

Originally Posted by [KEi]SoVeReIgN

Yep I know Dell and Apple use the same LG panel, I don't know if the Catleap uses the exact same (I'd be surprised) and I'm sure 99% of the 27" Yumcha monitors out there don't use it. But either way it's not just about the panel, Apple and Dell have used the same panels for years and got very different results through processing etc.

The Catleaps and cheaper IPS monitors use the LG 8 bit panel. Dell, NEC, and Apple use the better panels.

If you are looking for good colour reproduction I would never consider the Catleap et al.

[kambo_rambo]

Except 10bit colour monitors are hideously expensive and nearly everything, save for photoshop, runs in 8bit depth - oh and his graphics card probably doesnt support it as it requires display port. Hes on a low budget dont waste his time with things he doesnt need. Also, apple still use the 8bit variants same as catleap. This isnt a general monitor discussion thread otherwise we can talk about LED backlighting, AG coating and response time all day.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Mind = blown with these monitor decisions. $500 is 'low' for a monitor?

Sure, I can stretch. I can pay $1000 for a wide gamut monitor that nothing can utilise properly. But I don't want to, I think $500 is more than enough to spend on a monitor particularly when what I want is a decent upgrade on a CRT that cost $100 almost ten years ago.

What I am after is a monitor that is bigger (27-35 inches) but can do as much of what my CRT could as possible - good strong and accurate colours, great absolute and gradations of black, good responsiveness for gaming, reasonable resolution that is suitable for gaming and, if possible, 3d capability. Basically a good monitor for gaming like my CRT was. I am not a 'pro' who works with wide colour spaces and needs the absolute best in colour accuracy, although I easily noticed 'crushed' and oversaturated colours, having come from CRT.

What I am fast finding is that there are a myriad of compromises out there that rarely do everything I want, and often are sold at premiums for things I already took for granted.

120 hz for gaming? 3D? Most high quality CRT's did those by default.
Deep blacks and accurate colours? And only if you give up the 120hz and 3d? I had both on CRT.
High resolution or gaming resolution? Again, you had both on a CRT. Not 2560x1440 of course, but 1600x1200 is about equal to 1920x1080 and you could always go higher to 1920x1440 (though pointless on a 22" screen), all while being able to drop down to anything lower at will.

And whichever of these you choose - good image quality, high resolution or 120hz and 3d, you're going to pay a premium price in a market where $500 monitors are considered 'low end'.

I feel like I'm back in 1999 although granted, we were talking about 15-19 inch back then

Still, no sense in whinging. I have to decide whether a fast, 120hz 3d TN panel with 'good enough' image quality or a slower, high quality IPS panel is the right thing for me.

Originally Posted by trackhappy

That is true, but remove the AG filter like some brave souls here have, and the monitors are jaw-dropping. I plan on doing this mod to mine at some point.

EDIT: Have a link. Enjoy

I appreciate your help but it is worth pointing out that you have paid $700 and must still resort to warranty voiding alterations.