Does fluoride really cause cancer?

[ck_psy]

I came across the idea that fluoride causes cancer a few years ago, on the forum 'totse' which has since shut down.

I always passed it off as a tin foil anti-government conspiracy, but is it the case or not?

I was reading about SA, and with the 'quality' of SA water, the heavy metal carcinogenics found in the SA water supply makes sense, but what about other states?

[bumography]

I saw on TV a year or two ago that the amount in the tap water does us more good then harm.

[mareke]

I've seen fluoridation debated on forums before with all sorts of hysterical arguments brought up that it causes cancer, reduces life expectancy, lowers IQ etc yet it's been around for 70 or 80 years in many countries with no evidence of anything other than people having harder teeth less prone to decay. Fluoride in the small amounts put into the water supply is beneficial leading to harder teeth and less tooth decay. It's only a poison to the body in larger amounts. Fluoridated water came in too late for me to benefit and like a lot of people my age (60) I have teeth full of fillings partly because of missing out on drinking fluoridated water while a child. I read somewhere that Brisbane was the last capital city in Australia to get fluoridated water and before that it was known as the cavity capital of Australia.

[ddk]

Originally Posted by mareke

I've seen fluoridation debated on forums before with all sorts of hysterical arguments brought up that it causes cancer, reduces life expectancy, lowers IQ etc yet it's been around for 70 or 80 years in many countries with no evidence of anything other than people having harder teeth less prone to decay.

No direct evidence, maybe. But cancer rates have increased over the years, not decreased, despite modern advances. Something has to be the cause of that, and given that practically everyone drinks tap water, it's certainly not a stretch to say there's a possible link.

Personally I've always been more concerned with the fact that the water system is old and putrid. All the fluoride in the world doesn't prevent the build-up of slime, bacteria or particulates that are picked up during it's journey through broken water mains. The end result that comes out of a tap isn't something most sane people would drink, unfiltered, if they actually knew what was in it.

[Ashpool]

Short Answer: No

Long Answer:
Cancer rates have increased? News to me.
Cancer is not a singular disease. It is a large collection of different diseases that have similar characteristics.

Basically the idea is that the older we live the more chance we have of developing certain types of cancer.

Environmental exposure to certain factors also increase our chances of cancer.

If you account for age and environment then my understanding is that cancer rates are basically the same over time.

Lots of chemicals can cause cancer, everything is a chemical. It's all about exposure rates and the chances. Nearly everything can be a carcinogen if your exposed to enough of it in the right way.

So you need to think about the toxicity of fluoride at the levels your exposed to it at.

[fumbduck]

Originally Posted by ddk

Personally I've always been more concerned with the fact that the water system is old and putrid. All the fluoride in the world doesn't prevent the build-up of slime, bacteria or particulates that are picked up during it's journey through broken water mains. The end result that comes out of a tap isn't something most sane people would drink, unfiltered, if they actually knew what was in it.

I've seen that first hand.
The council had to repair a broken water main in my brothers street.
They only had to replace a 1 meter section of a 4 inch water main.
When the piece of pipe was removed you could not see through it from one end to the other. It was completely filled with silt and growth (calcification?)
It's amazing you'd still get reasonable water pressure through all that.
On the fluoride debate, I was under the impression that it is only beneficial to 'growing' teeth as in children's teeth.
If this was true it would make for a ridiculous proposition to add it to the water source for all of the population.
We added fluoride drops to our kids' drink when they were young.
Both (18 and 20) have no fillings.
Whereas I, having grown up in Holland (where we had fluoride already added to our water) have plenty of fillings.
I think that was the tendency of dentists at the time though, drill molars to death.

[mareke]

Originally Posted by ddk

No direct evidence, maybe. But cancer rates have increased over the years, not decreased, despite modern advances. Something has to be the cause of that, and given that practically everyone drinks tap water, it's certainly not a stretch to say there's a possible link.

Fifty years ago people died a few years after retiring while these days as a consequence of advances in healthcare life expectancy has risen to close to 80. Older people are far more likely to get cancer so increasing cancer rates are a consequence of advances in healthcare allowing people to live long enough to get cancer instead of dropping dead from heart attacks etc before they could develop cancer. Go to any third world country with a life expectancy 20 or 30 years less than that of Australia and you will likely find a much lower incidence of many cancers. Is that a good thing? I think not.

Originally Posted by fumbduck

On the fluoride debate, I was under the impression that it is only beneficial to 'growing' teeth as in children's teeth.

If this was true it would make for a ridiculous proposition to add it to the water source for all of the population.

We added fluoride drops to our kids' drink when they were young.

Both (18 and 20) have no fillings.

Whereas I, having grown up in Holland (where we had fluoride already added to our water) have plenty of fillings.

I think that was the tendency of dentists at the time though, drill molars to death.

You are right. Fluoridation only helps kids while their teeth are growing and building up their calcium content until about puberty. Those who argue against fluoridation often correctly state that a good diet and regular brushing of one’s teeth is enough to ensure having good teeth but ignore the fact that many children don’t have good diets or parents that make them brush regularly. It is these children that benefit most from the added protection against dental decay that fluoridation brings. I grew up in a family where I wasn't taught to look after my teeth. I'm not blaming my parents for this as they didn't know any better. My mother had 'soft' teeth that had pretty much decayed away by the time she died. I inherited her kind of teeth and believe that had the water supply been fluoridated when I grew up I'd have less fillings (and crowns) than I now have. I use a high fluoride toothpaste that has 5000 parts per million fluoride to help prevent any further decay and I use an electric toothbrush religiously these days but most of the damage was done when I was in my teens and 20s. Had my teeth been harder from drinking fluoridated water this damage from my own poor habits would most likely have been less.

[Yoodaa]

There is a Victorian produced doco on this called Fire Water. Look it up on Youtube. Here is an accurate summary about flouride from naturalnews.com:

http://www.naturalnews.com


There are two basic types of fluoride. Calcium fluoride appears naturally in underground water sources and even seawater. Enough of it can cause skeletal or dental fluorosis, which weakens bone and dental matter. But it is not nearly as toxic, nor does it negatively affect so many other health issues as sodium fluoride, which is added to many water supplies.

Sodium Fluoride is a synthetic waste product of the nuclear, aluminum, and phosphate fertilizer industries. This fluoride has an amazing capacity to combine and increase the potency of other toxic materials. The sodium fluoride obtained from industrial waste and added to water supplies is also already contaminated with lead, aluminum, and cadmium.

It damages the liver and kidneys, weakens the immune system, possibly leading to cancer, creates symptoms that mimic fibromyalgia, and performs as a Trojan Horse to carry aluminum across the blood brain barrier. The latter is recognized as a source of the notorious "dumbing down" with lower IQ's and Alzheimer's effects of fluoride.

Another not commonly known organ victim of fluorosis is the pineal gland, located in the middle of the brain. The pineal gland can become calcified from fluorides, inhibiting it's function as a melatonin producer. Melatonin is needed for sound, deep sleep, and the lack of it also contributes to thyroid problems that affect the entire endocrine system. The pineal gland is also considered the physical link to the upper chakras or third eye for spiritual and intuitive openings.

Various permutations of Sodium Fluoride are also in many insecticides for homes and pesticides for crops. Sometimes it is even added to baby foods and bottled waters. If you live in a water fluoridated area, purchase commercially grown fruits, especially grapes, and vegetables that are chemically sprayed and grown areas irrigated by fluoridated water, you are getting a triple whammy! Better skip that fluoridated toothpaste!

[Tinian]

Originally Posted by Yoodaa

There is a Victorian produced doco on this called Fire Water. Look it up on Youtube. Here is an accurate summary about flouride from naturalnews.com:

http://www.naturalnews.com

They're the first two spots I go to for rigorous scientific based public health information.

naturalnews.com is marketing scam from Truth Publishing International Ltd where you can purchase a book about 'eliminating disease in 92 days with the secret of juice feasting'.

[Ashpool]

If we go somewhere a bit more credible:

http://www.ada.org.au/oralhealth/fln/flfaqs.aspx

Does water fluoridation cause cancer?
The facts: The National Cancer Institute in the United States says very clearly that there is no evidence linking water fluoridation to any form of cancer. National Cancer Institute fact sheet The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stated that studies to date have produced "no credible evidence" of an association between fluoridated drinking water and an increased risk for cancer. The American Cancer Society agrees; they also support water fluoridation.



http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_.../en/index.html

[digamma]

The pineal gland is also considered the physical link to the upper chakras or third eye for spiritual and intuitive openings.

This is where they lost me.

[Subcommandante]

salt causes severe dehydration.

yet i don't see people drying up like husks on the street.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EATING 4 KILOS.

No wait.. it must be the dentists involved in the biggest conspiracy the world has ever seen, to give everyone cancer INCLUDING THEMSELVES.

[ddk]

Originally Posted by Subcommandante

No wait.. it must be the dentists involved in the biggest conspiracy the world has ever seen, to give everyone cancer INCLUDING THEMSELVES.

Don't be silly.

Dentists obviously use Brita.

[chip]

Originally Posted by ddk

No direct evidence, maybe. But cancer rates have increased over the years, not decreased, despite modern advances.

A more parsimonious explanation for the increase in cancer rates:
- The likelihood of a person developing cancer increases as they get older. The average age of death has been steadily rising over the last 150 years. As people are living longer than before and many communicable diseases have been eliminated, it's more likely that cancer will kill them than something else.
(Also, cancer detection is much better than at any other time in human history.)

Tthis only applies to people in developed countries.

[technoir]

Originally Posted by ddk

No direct evidence, maybe. But cancer rates have increased over the years, not decreased, despite modern advances. Something has to be the cause of that, and given that practically everyone drinks tap water, it's certainly not a stretch to say there's a possible link.

Ah, actually it a huge and ridiculous stretch to suggest such a link. By your reasoning, we could suggest the following; given that lifespans are increasing and practically everyone drinks tap water, we can conclude that fluoride makes you live longer (which is not the case).