Peltier Cooler Insulation Recommendations

Jet Black · 8th June 2012, 12:30 PM

I have been searching thru the interweb & this forum & come up with nada for what I am after , hopefully someone here has used or knows whats I needs.

I am looking for preferably a paint on thermal insulator that I can easily paint onto the areas of my peltier setup that will both reflect the heat & keep in the cold.

The sheets of Mica I have used , but the stuff is so fragile it keeps getting damaged , I could possibly pulverize it & put the dust into a heat proof paint , but destroying NOS 1950's Mica sheets seems a like a lot of trouble & it will be hard to get replacement sheets.

I have had some success using a combination of heat shrink tape & some expensive 130 c electrical tape , but applying it around flat multi finned heatsinks is a bitch.

Condensation is always an issue so whatever epoxy , paste or paint , needs to be waterproof , the main requirements are fairly easy & even application over flat or curved surfaces & that the stuff will hold the cold in where its needed & reflect the heat/IR radiation away where its needed.

Anyone know of a suitable substance/s I can have a look at ?

NB I am not using the peltier plates for a water cooling resivior , I have another purpose in mind. I plan to have plenty of condensation form but I need to be able to force it to form in certain areas so I can use it as an asset , rather than worry about it being a problem.

JB

PS
I'll be using single or dual 40x40mm 90Watt plates , they will not be directly connected to a CPU or similar that is giving out any energy. Can anyone recommend a quiet heatsink that will dissipate ~100watts that has a (preferably) copper base that has a 50x50mm plate on it that can be "easily" adapted to mount on the hot side of the plates ? Most CPU coolers I have found have waay too small a plate or no way to drill holes thu the plate to mount heat insulated bolts.
I am not new to the workings of Peltier coolers , just new to whats available on the market for them this century.

tia

C-BuZz · 8th June 2012, 1:57 PM

Vaseline...

Jet Black · 8th June 2012, 2:57 PM

I did some quick reading on Vasoline's properties , it does have applications in the electronics area , but unless you know how to cure a petroleum based gel it's not going to suit my purposes,

thanks

mrbean_phillip · 8th June 2012, 2:58 PM

Heya Ben,
Mate, you just confirmed exactly what I was going to say

I was actually going to suggest Dow-Coring dielectric grease, as I found it handled higher temps better than vaseline (not getting all runny) and of a significant higher consistency, but I can see you stem from the era of Vapochills, Prometeias, and the daddy of them all, Kryochill

Good suggestion, and to the OP, this will work realy well - a little messy, but easy to clean.

If you use it in the cpu area, please make sure to COVER all the pins thoroughy, removing all pockets of air. Then, just wipe clean and degrease the actual heatsink contact area, and apply thermal paste.

C-BuZz · 8th June 2012, 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Black

I did some quick reading on Vasoline's properties , it does have applications in the electronics area , but unless you know how to cure a petroleum based gel it's not going to suit my purposes,

thanks

I've used Vaseline on dual compressor cascades down to -115c squished into the cpu socket & surrounding area. I actually ran with a smaller phase change system for 2years straight back in the day with Vaseline.

So yes.. it will definitely work for some peltiers which won't even go below 0c.

Even Auto grease will work & I've used it numerous times.

Jet Black · 9th June 2012, 9:54 AM

I don't think we are on the right page here...

Say I was going to join up a collection of parts like this , with a few "modifications" made to the BIG old HDD housings.

Is there a thermal insulation product that I can use to cover certain areas & leave other areas ?

I am trying to make a very cold air intake to feed into a C60 radiator that has a 50micron air filter in front of it.

Early photo during box construction , things have changed a bit since..

Hope this makes things clearer

JB

mrbean_phillip · 9th June 2012, 10:01 AM

Why don't you use neoprene rubber?

C-BuZz · 9th June 2012, 10:28 AM

So your using a peltier to cool air for your radiator? What are you trying to cool exactly?

I would think as Mr Bean said, Neoprene or even sticky neoprene would be perfect for this. Or even kneeding eraser/clay depending on how much area you need to cover. Filler foam may also work.

t8y · 9th June 2012, 10:38 AM

sticky backed neoprene, from clark rubber and similar stores.
cheap, too.

offtopic but your setup would probably be less effective than just a larger radiator.
theres a reason most people use the peltiers to directly cool the CPU or coolant, not the radiator/air.
interested to see how it does turn out, regardless

it hasnt been done much before, if at all (that alone is reason enough for some people to go ahead with the idea, i guess..)

TERRA Operative · 9th June 2012, 10:40 AM

Why don't you cool the water directly? Not all the heat capacity of the cold air will be used as it passes through the radiator unless you have a very thick rad or you do multiple passes, but then you have the problem of cooling capacity reducing as the air warms up as it travels towards the back of the thick rad or it works it's way through the passes.

Also, I used to use foam rubber on active cooled ozone generators for water treatment. They had what was basically a refrigerative water cooler to pump water through a stainless steel tube that was the ozone generator.
As you could imagine in the Gold Coast, it got pretty wet during the humid seasons, so a wrap in foam rubber (you can get it in sheets of various thicknesses from air-con parts suppliers like Actrol or even from Clark Rubber etc) held on with a decent adhesive, and the problem with excessive condensation and enclosures rusting out was fixed.

mrbean_phillip · 9th June 2012, 11:26 AM

Yep, all good ideas, sure the OP can make use of them.

@ Terra: Cooling the cpu directly will of course lead to pretty bad issues wrt condensation, and you need pretty aggressive action to counter this in the cpu-socket, plus, if working well enough, you will definitely need to cover the water-rubing etc, especially at idel-speeds, where water-temp will drop below dew-point.

Again, while a pretty novel idea, I would think the OP's exercise is a futile one, as it will not allow much headroom in overclocking vs a good watercooling-setup.

Only my opinion, and it is anyway always nice to play, try new/different things, et al.

TERRA Operative · 9th June 2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbean_phillip

@ Terra: Cooling the cpu directly will of course lead to pretty bad issues wrt condensation, and you need pretty aggressive action to counter this in the cpu-socket, plus, if working well enough, you will definitely need to cover the water-rubing etc, especially at idel-speeds, where water-temp will drop below dew-point.

I meant to cool the water that then cools the CPU.
As long as the water temp is kept above dewpoint, it won't cause condensation on the pipes, but that would require an air temp/humidity sensor and some sort of controller.

Jet Black · 9th June 2012, 12:43 PM

Thanks for waking me up

I am dealing/manipulating with an absolute maximum of 1Kw of energy inside of this PC & not having to deal with the considerably higher & spread out energy that needs to be kept in balance between the front & rear bumper bars of my car. I use the chrome bumper bars as heatsinks if your interested.

Final Goal of my little PC cooling "project"

I want to provide a better thermal balance for _all_ the working components inside of my PC. I'd like the high speed flow of all the 1's & 0's that run & control the operations of this box to be able to move at a more stable rate , rather than having them continually stop , start , slow & accelerate as they pass from point A to point B.

This might sound a bit simple , mindless possibly incoherent to some people , so think about how the traffic flow of 1's & 0's has increased over the years as you have upgraded your PC. The traffic flow in the future is only going to get more congested by the looks of it.
Those of you fortunate enough to have toyed around with TRS 80's near the end of primary skool or beginning of high school should know understand where I'm coming from.

I'll get to work in obtaining some of the recommended materials & obseve what comes out of it.

Cheers JB

Huggy_Bear64 · 9th June 2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TERRA Operative

I meant to cool the water that then cools the CPU.
As long as the water temp is kept above dewpoint, it won't cause condensation on the pipes, but that would require an air temp/humidity sensor and some sort of controller.

I think IMtech is developing something like that at the moment isn't he?

t8y · 9th June 2012, 12:50 PM

hmm

after re-reading the thread, i now have no idea what the goal of your project here is now.

lol.

good luck with it anyway

8th June 2012, 12:30 PM	#1
Jet Black Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23	Peltier Cooler Insulation Recommendations I have been searching thru the interweb & this forum & come up with nada for what I am after , hopefully someone here has used or knows whats I needs. I am looking for preferably a paint on thermal insulator that I can easily paint onto the areas of my peltier setup that will both reflect the heat & keep in the cold. The sheets of Mica I have used , but the stuff is so fragile it keeps getting damaged , I could possibly pulverize it & put the dust into a heat proof paint , but destroying NOS 1950's Mica sheets seems a like a lot of trouble & it will be hard to get replacement sheets. I have had some success using a combination of heat shrink tape & some expensive 130 c electrical tape , but applying it around flat multi finned heatsinks is a bitch. Condensation is always an issue so whatever epoxy , paste or paint , needs to be waterproof , the main requirements are fairly easy & even application over flat or curved surfaces & that the stuff will hold the cold in where its needed & reflect the heat/IR radiation away where its needed. Anyone know of a suitable substance/s I can have a look at ? NB I am not using the peltier plates for a water cooling resivior , I have another purpose in mind. I plan to have plenty of condensation form but I need to be able to force it to form in certain areas so I can use it as an asset , rather than worry about it being a problem. JB PS I'll be using single or dual 40x40mm 90Watt plates , they will not be directly connected to a CPU or similar that is giving out any energy. Can anyone recommend a quiet heatsink that will dissipate ~100watts that has a (preferably) copper base that has a 50x50mm plate on it that can be "easily" adapted to mount on the hot side of the plates ? Most CPU coolers I have found have waay too small a plate or no way to drill holes thu the plate to mount heat insulated bolts. I am not new to the workings of Peltier coolers , just new to whats available on the market for them this century. tia __________________ My overclocked street car that runs cool in traffic. 1974 XB Ford Hardtop. 351C , 650CFM Holley , 4/71 GM Blower , C6 Auto , 3.89 LSD. 0 to 100MPH ~10 seconds. Last edited by Jet Black; 8th June 2012 at 12:37 PM.

8th June 2012, 2:57 PM	#3
Jet Black Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23	I did some quick reading on Vasoline's properties , it does have applications in the electronics area , but unless you know how to cure a petroleum based gel it's not going to suit my purposes, thanks __________________ My overclocked street car that runs cool in traffic. 1974 XB Ford Hardtop. 351C , 650CFM Holley , 4/71 GM Blower , C6 Auto , 3.89 LSD. 0 to 100MPH ~10 seconds.

8th June 2012, 2:58 PM	#4
mrbean_phillip Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Doreen (3754) Vic Posts: 2,045	Heya Ben, Mate, you just confirmed exactly what I was going to say I was actually going to suggest Dow-Coring dielectric grease, as I found it handled higher temps better than vaseline (not getting all runny) and of a significant higher consistency, but I can see you stem from the era of Vapochills, Prometeias, and the daddy of them all, Kryochill Good suggestion, and to the OP, this will work realy well - a little messy, but easy to clean. If you use it in the cpu area, please make sure to COVER all the pins thoroughy, removing all pockets of air. Then, just wipe clean and degrease the actual heatsink contact area, and apply thermal paste. __________________ HP Blackbird -> Dual-Quad Xeon ; Macho-Mini -> mini-ITX Xeon Server ; i-Prodigy -> Watercooled mini ITX ; iDuplex -> Prodigy SLI iRacing Button Box Last edited by mrbean_phillip; 8th June 2012 at 3:08 PM.

9th June 2012, 9:54 AM	#6
Jet Black Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23	I don't think we are on the right page here... Say I was going to join up a collection of parts like this , with a few "modifications" made to the BIG old HDD housings. Is there a thermal insulation product that I can use to cover certain areas & leave other areas ? I am trying to make a very cold air intake to feed into a C60 radiator that has a 50micron air filter in front of it. Early photo during box construction , things have changed a bit since.. Hope this makes things clearer JB __________________ My overclocked street car that runs cool in traffic. 1974 XB Ford Hardtop. 351C , 650CFM Holley , 4/71 GM Blower , C6 Auto , 3.89 LSD. 0 to 100MPH ~10 seconds.

9th June 2012, 10:01 AM	#7
mrbean_phillip Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Doreen (3754) Vic Posts: 2,045	Why don't you use neoprene rubber? __________________ HP Blackbird -> Dual-Quad Xeon ; Macho-Mini -> mini-ITX Xeon Server ; i-Prodigy -> Watercooled mini ITX ; iDuplex -> Prodigy SLI iRacing Button Box

8th June 2012, 1:57 PM	#2
C-BuZz Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melb, East Posts: 3,886	Vaseline...

9th June 2012, 10:28 AM	#8
C-BuZz Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melb, East Posts: 3,886	So your using a peltier to cool air for your radiator? What are you trying to cool exactly? I would think as Mr Bean said, Neoprene or even sticky neoprene would be perfect for this. Or even kneeding eraser/clay depending on how much area you need to cover. Filler foam may also work.

9th June 2012, 10:40 AM	#10
TERRA Operative Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Niraikanai Posts: 6,525	Why don't you cool the water directly? Not all the heat capacity of the cold air will be used as it passes through the radiator unless you have a very thick rad or you do multiple passes, but then you have the problem of cooling capacity reducing as the air warms up as it travels towards the back of the thick rad or it works it's way through the passes. Also, I used to use foam rubber on active cooled ozone generators for water treatment. They had what was basically a refrigerative water cooler to pump water through a stainless steel tube that was the ozone generator. As you could imagine in the Gold Coast, it got pretty wet during the humid seasons, so a wrap in foam rubber (you can get it in sheets of various thicknesses from air-con parts suppliers like Actrol or even from Clark Rubber etc) held on with a decent adhesive, and the problem with excessive condensation and enclosures rusting out was fixed. __________________ I DO NOT support internet filtering!!! Tereno Empireo Rapidmova Reakcii Armeo Check out my Youtube channel! Last edited by TERRA Operative; 9th June 2012 at 10:45 AM.

9th June 2012, 11:26 AM	#11
mrbean_phillip Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Doreen (3754) Vic Posts: 2,045	Yep, all good ideas, sure the OP can make use of them. @ Terra: Cooling the cpu directly will of course lead to pretty bad issues wrt condensation, and you need pretty aggressive action to counter this in the cpu-socket, plus, if working well enough, you will definitely need to cover the water-rubing etc, especially at idel-speeds, where water-temp will drop below dew-point. Again, while a pretty novel idea, I would think the OP's exercise is a futile one, as it will not allow much headroom in overclocking vs a good watercooling-setup. Only my opinion, and it is anyway always nice to play, try new/different things, et al. __________________ HP Blackbird -> Dual-Quad Xeon ; Macho-Mini -> mini-ITX Xeon Server ; i-Prodigy -> Watercooled mini ITX ; iDuplex -> Prodigy SLI iRacing Button Box

9th June 2012, 12:43 PM	#13
Jet Black Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23	Thanks for waking me up I am dealing/manipulating with an absolute maximum of 1Kw of energy inside of this PC & not having to deal with the considerably higher & spread out energy that needs to be kept in balance between the front & rear bumper bars of my car. I use the chrome bumper bars as heatsinks if your interested. Final Goal of my little PC cooling "project" I want to provide a better thermal balance for _all_ the working components inside of my PC. I'd like the high speed flow of all the 1's & 0's that run & control the operations of this box to be able to move at a more stable rate , rather than having them continually stop , start , slow & accelerate as they pass from point A to point B. This might sound a bit simple , mindless possibly incoherent to some people , so think about how the traffic flow of 1's & 0's has increased over the years as you have upgraded your PC. The traffic flow in the future is only going to get more congested by the looks of it. Those of you fortunate enough to have toyed around with TRS 80's near the end of primary skool or beginning of high school should know understand where I'm coming from. I'll get to work in obtaining some of the recommended materials & obseve what comes out of it. Cheers JB __________________ My overclocked street car that runs cool in traffic. 1974 XB Ford Hardtop. 351C , 650CFM Holley , 4/71 GM Blower , C6 Auto , 3.89 LSD. 0 to 100MPH ~10 seconds.