No More SBS

[fester2001]

I was thinking about just this the other day, A small office running an SBS server that needs an upgrade, go to office 365 or just replace the server?

Being realistic this office isn't very demanding on their hardware, 6 pcs's 20gb of data and 30gb of email .

The server itself could be replaced for about 2k with the latest version of sbs and they are set for another 4+ years of service.

With office 365 the cost of exchange licencing alone is: $7.90pm x12 months x4 years x6 users

Thats $94.80 per user per year
and $2275.2 over 4 years for just 6 users

So for just email your breaking about even - probably better off given that your now not paying for support on that server.

However, take away that ageing server and you still need to store their data so you either buy some kind of NAS solution/server or go back to sharing files from one of their PC's (this never seems to be a reliable solution) either way you now either have a less then ideal situation or more expenditure.

In these circumstances backup costs are not really a factor, they have sufficient space on their current backup solution and it doesn't really matter if they are backing up 20gb or 50gb of data per day so any argument about less backup costs using office 365 are null.

Over all I think they are getting a better deal from having their own SBS server as opposed to using a service like Office 365 although being able to pay for office 365 by the month will be very appealing to allot of customers

[ewok85]

Originally Posted by rainwulf

Skitza you are an idiot.

You are telling its faster to open a 1gig design file over an internet connection then it is from a local server?

In some cases, yes!

(He did mention Citrix, who do a branch repeater, which can provide files from the cloud/WAN as fast as a local file server would)

[alch]

... My heart stopped for a minute. I read "no more SBS" in the current threads on the main page and my heart stopped.. Phew. Glad this is about Small Business Server and not Special Broadcasting Service

[ir0nhide]

Originally Posted by alch

... My heart stopped for a minute. I read "no more SBS" in the current threads on the main page and my heart stopped.. Phew. Glad this is about Small Business Server and not Special Broadcasting Service

You mean Serious Boobs Service?

[elvis]

Originally Posted by ir0nhide

You mean Serious Boobs Service?

Sex Before Supper.

[NSanity]

Originally Posted by Skitza

These days I disagree. You don't need on site file servers at all. Cad included. Cloud setups can and will handle this with the same if not better performance than physical. Citrix or Ts will take care of this quite easily and terabyte+ file servers are also quite normal for a cloud config. I can't comment on the pricing but it's easily possible if you wanted to go down that path.

Ask Autodesk officially.

Sure they are certifying some of their products on Citrix - but they sure as shit don't expect you to draft on them. Ever. Things may change going forward - but as long as Autodesk is writing the software, don't hold your breathe.

Originally Posted by darkanjel

Unfortunately you just have to make do. Best practice now basically assumes you have access to high-speed internet.

Hey! it rings true for most of Metro-CBD's.

Originally Posted by darkanjel

Business community cable? Set up a mini-ISP in the business park on a big cable link and re-sell it at affordable pricing?

Looked into this with Vertel. They are going to get back to me when they can get the initial install cost under $130k. Even then, monthly figures are at LEAST $1500/month.

Originally Posted by darkanjel

Personally I believe the local short to mid-term future of cloud vs on-premise will be a hybrid mesh. On-premise server cache of cloud-stored data (in respect to larger files or low-bandwidth solutions)... basically a Riverbed on the cheap (yes, oxymoron).

Well no. I don't think you're going to get Riverbeds on the cheap - ever. Riverbed's potential customers grow smaller and smaller every year with increase bandwidth and reduced latency and then the advent of the cloud renders most of it unnecessary.

I think you're going to find that things like on-premise SBS Essentials - or whatever they are going to call it now - that blend with hosted solutions in terms of management. Maybe MS will do server-side local caching - but i really don't see it - Its a temporary problem thats likely to be resolved in < 10 years, possibly 5. No company is going to invest in the software development, marketing and support to make that happen for such a tightass market.

Originally Posted by fester2001

I was thinking about just this the other day, A small office running an SBS server that needs an upgrade, go to office 365 or just replace the server?

Being realistic this office isn't very demanding on their hardware, 6 pcs's 20gb of data and 30gb of email .

The server itself could be replaced for about 2k with the latest version of sbs and they are set for another 4+ years of service.

With office 365 the cost of exchange licencing alone is: $7.90pm x12 months x4 years x6 users

Thats $94.80 per user per year
and $2275.2 over 4 years for just 6 users

So for just email your breaking about even - probably better off given that your now not paying for support on that server.

By the time i implement something with hotswap drives and a decent warranty - i'm about 3x that price. The $40/month option seems better imo - You end up with a Office ProPlus subscription as well - if your customer doesn't need Access/Publisher, its not super great (over say $250 Home and Business) - but if they do, it starts to look appealing. Particularly for Terminal Server users ($1000+/copy).

Originally Posted by fester2001

However, take away that ageing server and you still need to store their data so you either buy some kind of NAS solution/server or go back to sharing files from one of their PC's (this never seems to be a reliable solution) either way you now either have a less then ideal situation or more expenditure.

A NAS for that is roughly $600. And you're right - for all the problems of Windows, most SMB based NAS's have more.

Originally Posted by fester2001

In these circumstances backup costs are not really a factor, they have sufficient space on their current backup solution and it doesn't really matter if they are backing up 20gb or 50gb of data per day so any argument about less backup costs using office 365 are null.

Over all I think they are getting a better deal from having their own SBS server as opposed to using a service like Office 365 although being able to pay for office 365 by the month will be very appealing to allot of customers

1 word - Leasing.

[elvis]

Cloud-based workstation use is on it's way. It's not a matter of if, but when.

RedHat are working hard on their SPICE protocol, which they've proved can stream four 1080p24 H.264 movies simultaneously to a single workstation instance over 100mbit/s LAN with hardware accelerated rendering on the client side, and that's just alpha code. Work is being done too on 3D apps to achieve the same, which will let you take advantage of fast server-side CPU but still display viewports on your workstation in hardware accelerated 3D.

The Xen kids are doing similar things in their world too. I have no doubt Microsoft and VMWare aren't far behind either.

Yes, bandwidth will always be a consideration. But clever people are doing clever things at the moment without the need for ludicrous connection speeds to make things work fairly well. Yeah, it sucks that Australia is the third world of the Internet, but things are moving forwards at least.

Rural areas are always hard done by in this country when it comes to technology, but the idea of a metropolitan small business being able to roll out a few high power systems for a handful of users in just a matter of minutes, and not have to pay a massive up-front fee for software or hardware is pretty exciting.

[Skitza]

Originally Posted by rainwulf

Skitza you are an idiot.

You are telling its faster to open a 1gig design file over an internet connection then it is from a local server?

Err I was more going along the lines of if all your infrastructure was on the cloud. But as others have said, I looked at a CBR the other day doing between 50-60% bandwidth savings! Down the track it's certainly possible, give it time NBN :P

Nsanity - I've used Revit 2012/13 on cloud over Xenapp 6.5, its honestly amazing! iPad or Desktop is perfectly usable on Cloud.

[KriiV]

Originally Posted by alch

... My heart stopped for a minute. I read "no more SBS" in the current threads on the main page and my heart stopped.. Phew. Glad this is about Small Business Server and not Special Broadcasting Service

In the "Business & Enterprise Computing" section?

[mtma]

Originally Posted by elvis

and not have to pay a massive up-front fee for software or hardware is pretty exciting.

I think we'll find that the fee for software will largely remain the same. The people drawing up the pricing structures aren't inane, they know what businesses are willing to put up per seat of their software and that's not going to change because you need less hardware.

Well aside from the initial icebreaker to move you into the new software model.

[elvis]

Originally Posted by mtma

I think we'll find that the fee for software will largely remain the same.

Of course it will. But the up front fee will be far less.

One of the biggest hurdles to launching a new business venture is the up front capital required for things like fitting out an office full of computers and software.

Leased lightweight hardware and cloud-based apps take that massive up-front cost, and spread it over the course of the year, making it far easier for startups to manage cash flow. That means either spending what money you do have more sensibly early on (on important things like staff, for example), or not having to go grovelling to the bank/investors for more startup capital.

Having run a small business myself, as well as having set up countless numbers of them for other people, I know just how precious those early-day dollars are.

On a somewhat related note, I know a lot of creative students who are getting very excited about this:

http://www.adobe.com/au/products/creativecloud.html

The cost is much the same as standard Adobe products, but through this model that cost is spread over the course of the year. That means students can pick up industry tools and pay them off over time while they learn them. That' great news not only for students, but for the industries hiring them.

[aza2001]

I personally think this is kind of a joke.

Most small business users want to keep data locally, without "risking" data exposure on cloud based services. They want to own there own data, and have secure email which they can control. This is where SBS provided I guess a "secure" mindset to most SMB's

Yes more things are going cloud, but also people want to own there things.

Just like all this media going cloud EG:

- Music - all these music services charging $100 per year for a streaming service and after that year is up what do you have?? what do you own?? NOTHING

All in all this "Cloud" thing is ripping people off I think.

[elvis]

Originally Posted by aza2001

Most small business users want to keep data locally, without "risking" data exposure on cloud based services. They want to own there own data, and have secure email which they can control. This is where SBS provided I guess a "secure" mindset to most SMB's

I think you're covering a lot of technologies with a single blanket.

I know a huge volume of small businesses using Google Apps/Mail and Google Drive for simple email, calendar and document sharing needs. These replace the hassle of maintaining local Exchange and FTP setups quite easily. The cost is a simple monthly invoice, and it means they can happily sack their IT service providers (who, in the small business market, are generally horrendous).

For their actual workflow, they still use Microsoft Office on a PC (ignoring the "Apps" part of "Google Apps" entirely).

For all the talk of risking data via cloud-based services, I've seen far more businesses be affected by corporate executives losing their mobile phones that contain a complete cache of all of their company emails with no encryption or passwords on the devices than I have seen companies lose sensitive information after having put it on Google Drive or Drop Box.

[dr_deathy]

From what i have seen most SBS's around here are very poorly setup and really crappy hardware, entry level dell and HP servers are the same as there normal consumer level gear with some reporting and some cooling management.

most people who don't like it are just worried about their shitty jobs, i cant wait til the death of a local exchange server the most. File servers tho IMO will still be needed out here for another 5-10years til NBN, but hell even we have reliable ADSL2+ across most of the town and great service in the CBD, also a lot of people are helstra business customers so if it does go down they provide a free nextg while its down, so i really cant see the doom and gloom over it all.

[Smokin Whale]

I'm pretty confident in cloud based solutions, provided there are local copies incase connectivity fails. Are people really that scared of having their data hacked? Surely good password management should take care of this. I'm more terrorfied of having my business broken into and having my servers taken.