Public Place, but Private Property - Page 2

matt-chops · 17th July 2012, 10:48 AM

Stepping past the what's morally right and wrong argument, what should and shouldn't be happening and whether or not anyone thinks it's right or not, the bottom line is that it is private property and they do have the right to ask you not to take photos while you are there...

... they don't however (from what I understand) have any legal right to make you show them the photos you have taken or delete any photos. That's a whole new can of worms to do with intellectual property law. Once the damage is done the photo is yours to keep.

You took a photo when you perhaps shouldn't have, they do have the right to ask you to stop or to leave the premises, that is all.

Pinkeh · 17th July 2012, 12:13 PM

I love it when the rent-a-guard security ask me to stop taking photos outside Luna Park whilst standing on land that belongs to the Sydney Harbour Foreshore Authority / North Sydney Council.

A supermarket is private property.

But with that said i take photos of stock on shelves at Supermarkets, JB Hifi, Games stores, clothing stores so i can either 1) Scan the barcodes to find more information about a product or 2) research the best value for money online

Done it with both Tablet and phone, nobody ever approached me about it. Maybe i should do it with a DSLR

The only time i've had to deal with premise management was at an industrial complex. I was directing visitors for patrons to a conference hall inside one of the units. I was carrying a DSLR camera on my shoulder because it wasnt a secured premises.

I took photos of the premise for the event and one of the other unit owners got suspicious and contacted the premises manager. Although we agreed to stop taking photos around the complex, they had no control over what was happening within the conference hall because we had prior permission from them.

We later found out that the suspicious occupier was operating without development approval from the council. The premise also had a history of unauthorised uses. Payback's a bitch.

ipex · 17th July 2012, 12:15 PM

i went to the local pet store and took pics of a wooden bird feeder , so that i could draw up a design and make it myself , nothing got said to me about it

Pinkeh · 17th July 2012, 12:23 PM

I've been told the place you dont want to take photos is Sydney Markets in the City or anwhere with vendors known to sell counterfeit goodies. The rent-a-guards are particularly ruthless.

Just not worth the trouble

CapnBloodbeard · 17th July 2012, 4:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crispy12

I was commenting on the behaviour of the response, I don't care what their job is. Wasting seafood by leaving it at the checkout is a childish way to solve the problem. Next time try it out at your local supermarket and see what other people think.

Agree - there are some very precious little princesses out there!!!

triggerpeg · 17th July 2012, 4:30 PM

Its how it is in the 1st world today. Every where you see narcissism taking over. And mostly its promoted as something to be admired these days!

Its all about MY rights...its all about MY choices...its all about ME...I can do what ever the ... I want....cause I live in a free democratic world...*sigh*

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnBloodbeard

Agree - there are some very precious little princesses out there!!!

kxl · 17th July 2012, 5:34 PM

The Manager and 2IC were just doing their job. Retailers with large parent companies generally always have strict policies regarding taking photos/film, and what staff must do if the media arrive on site. This is not something they can just choose to enforce if they feel like it, they MUST follow the policy or they face disciplinary actio. If they just ignored it and their line manager found out they were aware of it and did not do anything, their ass would be in a sling.
The policy with the company I work for is the same for both the public and media taking photos/images. You must immediately inform them that taking photos/film on the premises is not permitted and they must cease. If they choose to continue they must be asked to leave the premises. If it is a customer they must be offered the Customer Care (complaint) contact information, and if they are from the media they must be offered the company Media Relations contact information. After any interaction regarding the taking of images, your line manager must be informed within 60mins.
The 2 x managers the OP came across were just doing their jobs, so don't take it out on them or the store by leaving trolleys or perishables in the aisles, etc as others have suggested. If you really disagree with the policy then contact the complaints line.

ipex · 17th July 2012, 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crispy12

I was commenting on the behaviour of the response, I don't care what their job is. Wasting seafood by leaving it at the checkout is a childish way to solve the problem. Next time try it out at your local supermarket and see what other people think.

what sort of fucked up world are we living in when someone feels hard done by just because they are told not to take a pic , seriously harden the fuck up princess

pelmen · 18th July 2012, 7:26 AM

This seems like a silly question, but IS a supermarket or store Private Property?

The store leases/rents, they don't own the land. Also private property doesn't mean you are except from Australian Laws and free to make up your own.

I don't mind if someone politely asks me not to take a photo in a location, or there are clearly posted No Trespassing signs. But I'm not sure its correct to claim its private property, or illegal etc in any way by staff or security.

It's certainly something that needs some factual answers rather than just personal opinion and its possibly something the law hasn't really caught up with enough to allow the public to be properly informed.

Tatts_83 · 18th July 2012, 7:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelmen

This seems like a silly question, but IS a supermarket or store Private Property?

If you are renting a house/apartment is that considered private property?
A supermarket or store is private property with public access, it is still private property.

Squeezer · 18th July 2012, 8:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkeh

A supermarket is private property.

But with that said i take photos of stock on shelves at Supermarkets, JB Hifi, Games stores, clothing stores so i can either 1) Scan the barcodes to find more information about a product or 2) research the best value for money online

Beat me to it. Ive got lots of images on my phone of products/price tags. Much easier to take a photo than get out a pen and paper and write it down. I scan model numbers and prices normally. Never been questioned

led_blind · 18th July 2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audionut

It's private property. Make up any old argument you like about it being a public place, it's still private property.

Most (all large) retail stores will have store procedures that dictate no photos are allowed to be taken in store. As a previous guard for a large retail store I could go into the perfectly legitimate reasons as to why stores have these procedures in place, but quite frankly, judging from the comments so far in this thread, I'd be wasting my fucking time.

Retail theft is a massive problem in Australia, to which we as consumers pay for at the checkout. Leaving a couple of kilos of expensive prawns to rot in the aile, or just a shopping trolley full of items for wages to be spent re packing, because you're a fucking princess is just pure win.

Yup, private place open to the public. Quite clear though the point may be missed by some.

Frozen_Hell · 18th July 2012, 12:23 PM

There are plenty of resources covering Australian law on this, simply your rights to take photographs are as follows in summary:

- You can take photos in public places all you like (even if you're taking photos of private property FROM public property)
- If you're on private property, the owner and/or their agent(s) - so could be the company/individual leasing/renting the premises or their employees etc. have the right to dictate that you can't take photos, once informed of the fact that you're not allowed to, you must cease and they can request you leave (which you must do) - you do not have to delete the photos you've already taken before you were asked to cease, they can forcibly remove you if you refuse to leave (but they can't confiscate your camera etc)
- You can take photos of police etc. doing their duties
- The police can't require you to stop taking photos (or delete any you've taken), but they can issue you with a move on notice that you must comply with
- The one big exception in Australia, is that you cannot take photos of Defence sites and installations, even from public property.

Go and do your own research if you don't believe what I've stated above. If you want to push the bounds and crap on about your rights as a photographer etc, then you should at least spend the time finding out what you actually are lawfully entitled to do.

Creekin · 18th July 2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipex

i went to the local pet store and took pics of a wooden bird feeder , so that i could draw up a design and make it myself , nothing got said to me about it

thats piracy copie! im callin the fuzz!

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggerpeg

Its all about MY rights...its all about MY choices...its all about ME...I can do what ever the ... I want....cause I live in a free democratic world...*sigh*

*sigh* indeed....

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelmen

This seems like a silly question, but IS a supermarket or store Private Property?

yes and yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by led_blind

Yup, private place open to the public. Quite clear though the point may be missed by some.

the cast of #TheShire maybe....

Multiplexer · 18th July 2012, 2:06 PM

Back in high school in the 90's

We had a school photography excursion in Sydney CBD Martin Place. We were taking photos of building which many are bank building.

A security guard came out and told us we are not allow to take photo even from public area. Don't remember the reason he gave us, probably fearful we are planning to rob a bank and our photo is for scouting purposes

Being year 10 we just move on.

17th July 2012, 10:48 AM	#16
matt-chops Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 215	Stepping past the what's morally right and wrong argument, what should and shouldn't be happening and whether or not anyone thinks it's right or not, the bottom line is that it is private property and they do have the right to ask you not to take photos while you are there... ... they don't however (from what I understand) have any legal right to make you show them the photos you have taken or delete any photos. That's a whole new can of worms to do with intellectual property law. Once the damage is done the photo is yours to keep. You took a photo when you perhaps shouldn't have, they do have the right to ask you to stop or to leave the premises, that is all. __________________ PC - i7-930 12gb \| iMac 27" i7 16gb \| iPad 2 \| iPhone 4 \| Canon 5DmkII \| L Series Lenses \| Flashes, Tripods, Filters & Other Stuff \| Black Bommodore \| A Wife \| A Small Brown & White Dog \| A 6 Burner BBQ \| A Lawn Mower \| Some Power Tools \| 47" 400Hz LED TV \| A Giant Couch That's Really Comfy \| A Range Of Kitchen Appliances \| Colgate Tongue Cleaning Toothbrush \| Other Stuff

17th July 2012, 12:13 PM	#17
Pinkeh Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 7,330	I love it when the rent-a-guard security ask me to stop taking photos outside Luna Park whilst standing on land that belongs to the Sydney Harbour Foreshore Authority / North Sydney Council. A supermarket is private property. But with that said i take photos of stock on shelves at Supermarkets, JB Hifi, Games stores, clothing stores so i can either 1) Scan the barcodes to find more information about a product or 2) research the best value for money online Done it with both Tablet and phone, nobody ever approached me about it. Maybe i should do it with a DSLR The only time i've had to deal with premise management was at an industrial complex. I was directing visitors for patrons to a conference hall inside one of the units. I was carrying a DSLR camera on my shoulder because it wasnt a secured premises. I took photos of the premise for the event and one of the other unit owners got suspicious and contacted the premises manager. Although we agreed to stop taking photos around the complex, they had no control over what was happening within the conference hall because we had prior permission from them. We later found out that the suspicious occupier was operating without development approval from the council. The premise also had a history of unauthorised uses. Payback's a bitch. Last edited by Pinkeh; 17th July 2012 at 12:18 PM.

17th July 2012, 12:15 PM	#18
ipex Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,427	i went to the local pet store and took pics of a wooden bird feeder , so that i could draw up a design and make it myself , nothing got said to me about it __________________ Ausbb- Australian BodyBuilding

18th July 2012, 7:26 AM	#24
pelmen Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 347	This seems like a silly question, but IS a supermarket or store Private Property? The store leases/rents, they don't own the land. Also private property doesn't mean you are except from Australian Laws and free to make up your own. I don't mind if someone politely asks me not to take a photo in a location, or there are clearly posted No Trespassing signs. But I'm not sure its correct to claim its private property, or illegal etc in any way by staff or security. It's certainly something that needs some factual answers rather than just personal opinion and its possibly something the law hasn't really caught up with enough to allow the public to be properly informed. Last edited by pelmen; 18th July 2012 at 7:33 AM.

18th July 2012, 12:23 PM	#28
Frozen_Hell Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 2,538	There are plenty of resources covering Australian law on this, simply your rights to take photographs are as follows in summary: - You can take photos in public places all you like (even if you're taking photos of private property FROM public property) - If you're on private property, the owner and/or their agent(s) - so could be the company/individual leasing/renting the premises or their employees etc. have the right to dictate that you can't take photos, once informed of the fact that you're not allowed to, you must cease and they can request you leave (which you must do) - you do not have to delete the photos you've already taken before you were asked to cease, they can forcibly remove you if you refuse to leave (but they can't confiscate your camera etc) - You can take photos of police etc. doing their duties - The police can't require you to stop taking photos (or delete any you've taken), but they can issue you with a move on notice that you must comply with - The one big exception in Australia, is that you cannot take photos of Defence sites and installations, even from public property. Go and do your own research if you don't believe what I've stated above. If you want to push the bounds and crap on about your rights as a photographer etc, then you should at least spend the time finding out what you actually are lawfully entitled to do. __________________ Flickr

17th July 2012, 12:23 PM	#19
Pinkeh Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 7,330	I've been told the place you dont want to take photos is Sydney Markets in the City or anwhere with vendors known to sell counterfeit goodies. The rent-a-guards are particularly ruthless. Just not worth the trouble

17th July 2012, 5:34 PM	#22
kxl Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Brisbane Posts: 464	The Manager and 2IC were just doing their job. Retailers with large parent companies generally always have strict policies regarding taking photos/film, and what staff must do if the media arrive on site. This is not something they can just choose to enforce if they feel like it, they MUST follow the policy or they face disciplinary actio. If they just ignored it and their line manager found out they were aware of it and did not do anything, their ass would be in a sling. The policy with the company I work for is the same for both the public and media taking photos/images. You must immediately inform them that taking photos/film on the premises is not permitted and they must cease. If they choose to continue they must be asked to leave the premises. If it is a customer they must be offered the Customer Care (complaint) contact information, and if they are from the media they must be offered the company Media Relations contact information. After any interaction regarding the taking of images, your line manager must be informed within 60mins. The 2 x managers the OP came across were just doing their jobs, so don't take it out on them or the store by leaving trolleys or perishables in the aisles, etc as others have suggested. If you really disagree with the policy then contact the complaints line.

18th July 2012, 2:06 PM	#30
Multiplexer Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Home Posts: 1,680	Back in high school in the 90's We had a school photography excursion in Sydney CBD Martin Place. We were taking photos of building which many are bank building. A security guard came out and told us we are not allow to take photo even from public area. Don't remember the reason he gave us, probably fearful we are planning to rob a bank and our photo is for scouting purposes Being year 10 we just move on. __________________ For sale: AudioEngine A5 Last edited by Multiplexer; 18th July 2012 at 2:09 PM.