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Old 26th April 2017, 8:30 PM   #1
AbRASiON Thread Starter
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Default Coffee Lake 6 core, this August with z370 chipsets?

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/int...thernet,2.html

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...new-imacs.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/co...telr_cpu_0000/


I don't know what Intel are doing as it's all confusing.
140W quad channel x299 "HEDT" systems with 6,8,10 and eventally 12 core (Skylake X)
112W quad channel x299 "HEDT-gimped" CPU with 4core (8 thread?) 7700k on crack? (maybe higher frequency)

Unknown W dual channel 8xxxK cpu's with 6 core coffee lake? On Z/H/I300 chipsets

All within months of each other and all within 7-8 months of the original Kaby 7700k launch.

Either way, if the 6 core coffee lake i7 is 6C/12 threads, overclocks to 4.4ghz or higher and works on a new board with USB 3.1 Gen 2, 'free' Wifi and Bluetooth 5 - it sounds like a huge winner and Ryzen destroyer*
It seems unlikely it will be released at the same price as the existing 7700k ($450 AUD) though.


Strongly suspect the last paragraph of this speculators post is correct, unfortunately.
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/th...#post-30716520
Quote:
"The only interesting thing about it could be pricing. Somehow I just can't quite see Intel dropping in the hex at 7700k pricing, the 7700k at 7600k pricing, etc. Nor do I think they can do this without better prices. They are losing sales because of price/performance to AMD. I'm guessing the new chips will move down a half a price point then make the hexcore another 50-80 on top of current 7700k pricing."

* = considering Ryzens poor IPC and poor overclockability. Many Ryzen, multicore leaning benchmarks, the 7700k still came fairly close as it is, let alone with 2 more cores.

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Old 26th April 2017, 9:15 PM   #2
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I was checking last week when Z270 would be superceeded trying to work out if I should grab a update on my Z170 boards (October 2015 so a good while in action). Seemed nothing was coming until beginning of 2018 based on road maps I could find.

I guess Ryzen has made enough of an impact that intel felt the need to bring forward next generation.
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Old 26th April 2017, 9:54 PM   #3
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It could potentially be good.
I haven't seen a single benchmarker / reviewer with the balls to run Ryzen at 4 or 4.1ghz (max basically) vs 7700k at 4.8/4.9 or 5.0ghz (max basically)

It's lame and picky. I bet if someone were to do that review, it'd be more interesting.
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:10 PM   #4
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The whole 6C12T mainstream part rumour leaves the HEDT 4C8T chip as a pointless release, and doesn't bode well for the 6C12T HEDT chip/s either.

I'm guessing mainstream platform will only have i5 chips in it (6C6T and below), and the enthusiast platform will be made less expensive but contain all i7 SKUs (4C8T, 6C12T, 8C16T, etc.)

Of course, purely a guess... but something doesn't add up so far.
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Old 26th April 2017, 10:14 PM   #5
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The whole 6C12T mainstream part rumour leaves the HEDT 4C8T chip as a pointless release, and doesn't bode well for the 6C12T HEDT chip/s either.

I'm guessing mainstream platform will only have i5 chips in it (6C6T and below), and the enthusiast platform will be made less expensive but contain all i7 SKUs (4C8T, 6C12T, 8C16T, etc.)

Of course, purely a guess... but something doesn't add up so far.
Certainly an interesting theory. There's some huge crossover here and it's just unclear. I didn't even think they'd terminate the i7 regular edition and move it exclusively to HEDT but that's a total viable option I suppose. One I wouldn't like but it makes more sense.

I'm an ITX guy so I'm boned - there's stuff all quad channel ITX options and what do exist are frankly sloppy (understandably so, sadly)
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Old 27th April 2017, 6:49 AM   #6
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Seems like they're blurring the lines a bit between the mainstream and enthusiast lines:
  • "On Z platform and want something uber, over top tier quad core? High speed hex core!"
  • "Interested in X platform, but cost preventing you? Quad core gateway drug!"
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Old 27th April 2017, 7:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbRASiON View Post
It could potentially be good.
I haven't seen a single benchmarker / reviewer with the balls to run Ryzen at 4 or 4.1ghz (max basically) vs 7700k at 4.8/4.9 or 5.0ghz (max basically)

It's lame and picky. I bet if someone were to do that review, it'd be more interesting.
Which ryzen CPU are you talking about here. I can see what I can must let up.



On a side note, rumour has it that Coffee Lake will be supported on all Z170 and Z270 boards. So, if you are considering if you should buy now or later, it shouldn't matter for you.

Coffeelake 6c is rumoured to be 6c/6t only, so on mainstream boards, the 7700k or the 4c/8t i7 will still be the top CPU.

On HEDT, I believe it is Intel trying to get more sales on the HEDT platform. Having the choice for people to buy a CPU similar to the top mainstream on the x299 board leaves more value options for anyone upgrading. They've missed this mark for a while now and think the Ryzen Platform has squeezed their nuts to make the realise that. 4c/8t at higher clock speed is almost enough for to make me invest in the X299 for my benching as it's a only platform for all.

Oh, and the 4c counterparts are only rumoured to use dual channel memory, not Quad like the Skylake-X CPUs will. This will hold them back a bit on bandwidth making the higher core count chips have that little extra still.
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Old 27th April 2017, 7:29 AM   #8
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Which ryzen CPU are you talking about here. I can see what I can must let up.

I'm wanting to see a reviewer actually put them in an enthusiast environment
Ryzen 1700/1700+ or 1800+ at maximum sane frequency. (logically, it should actually be the 1700, since there's no real difference and it's the cheapest)
Intel 7700k at maximum sane frequency. (only Intel 4C/8T cpu which is unlocked)

Both with DDR4-3200 clocked as close to 3200 as possible (so, in Intels case, it'll just plain do 3200, with AMD, god only knows, it seems random between 2900 and 3000, sometimes 3200..ugh)


That way you have approx same price CPU
Both enthusiast motherboards
Same price memory


I know most people here who buy a Ryzen would try overclock it a little, I know most people here who buy an Intel would try overclock it a little.

But I'll be damned if there's a 4.9ghz intel vs 4.0ghz Ryzen comparison out there.
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Old 27th April 2017, 8:32 AM   #9
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There is a review for the 1600 or 1600x which includes 7700k OC results. 7700k smashes everything in gaming and general computing. Heavily multithreaded applications the 1700 wins.

Honestly I think most people just like tinkering and dont really need mega speed. So they just buy what they like. Lots grabbing ryzen likely don't care it is technically slower because with a ssd and the like it takes a benchmark to show you what you are missing out on.
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Old 27th April 2017, 8:37 AM   #10
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Ideal would be an 8 instead of 6 core comparison.


I'm an extreme browser and multi tasker, can exceed 300 tabs at a time researching stuff. Run anywhere from 5 to 20 apps at a time in the background.

Some elements of that would be helped by multi core processors, however, often the CPU isn't at 100% at all. It's general Windows responsiveness I want to increase, significantly. Based on my estimations, a 4.5ghz our higher i7 6 core would probably be the best option.

Also, I only use onboard video, so the lack of igp in ryzen is a genuine hindrance to me.
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Old 27th April 2017, 10:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbRASiON View Post
Ideal would be an 8 instead of 6 core comparison.


I'm an extreme browser and multi tasker, can exceed 300 tabs at a time researching stuff. Run anywhere from 5 to 20 apps at a time in the background.

Some elements of that would be helped by multi core processors, however, often the CPU isn't at 100% at all. It's general Windows responsiveness I want to increase, significantly. Based on my estimations, a 4.5ghz our higher i7 6 core would probably be the best option.

Also, I only use onboard video, so the lack of igp in ryzen is a genuine hindrance to me.
i had a 5960x @ 4.5Ghz, i side graded to an 1800X which is running at 4.0ghz

Gaming @ 4K, the 5960x was maybe 1-2% faster. Was only able to tell once crunching numbers.

gaming at 4k no real difference between the two. 1800x in hevy multi threads beats the 5960x, but thats at stock speeds, at 4.5vs4.0 the 5960x still wins.
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Old 27th April 2017, 10:33 AM   #12
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Will X99 Chips drop much in price after these launch?
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Old 27th April 2017, 10:43 AM   #13
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i had a 5960x @ 4.5Ghz, i side graded to an 1800X which is running at 4.0ghz

Gaming @ 4K, the 5960x was maybe 1-2% faster. Was only able to tell once crunching numbers.

gaming at 4k no real difference between the two. 1800x in hevy multi threads beats the 5960x, but thats at stock speeds, at 4.5vs4.0 the 5960x still wins.
Not surprising results unfortunately.
Considering (for my needs) I don't want a video card, AMD might come with a free cooler, but I need to buy a GPU - so I'm really against Ryzen unless it's outstandingly faster than intel in all benchmarks.

6 core/12T coffee lake, with IGP - even 'only' dual channel, sounds brilliant to me, especially over 4.5ghz - I'm eager for benchmarks.
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Old 27th April 2017, 11:47 AM   #14
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Will X99 Chips drop much in price after these launch?
Would expect a little, depends how much the new chips are.

For instance a 6900k/6950x wont drop that much in price, especially if they still perform on par with new chips.
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Old 27th April 2017, 1:26 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by AbRASiON View Post
140W quad channel x299 "HEDT" systems with 6,8,10 and eventally 12 core (Skylake X)
140W... this is just getting stupid. Sure, there will be some gains through architectural improvements, but for the last 15 years the solution to everything seems to be "I know, we'll get better performance by using more power!"

The same applies to GPUs. It's not really comparing like for like when to run the next gen system you need yet again a larger input supply - remember the good old days where the PC *and* CRT monitor ran off a single 250W PSU?
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