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Old 12th September 2017, 1:51 PM   #1
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Default NTSC SMS in the land of PAL

I'm full of questions today - as an alternative to modding my SMS to do 60Hz, would it be possible to simply buy an NTSC unit and use that instead? My telly (a composite only Sony Trinitron) does NTSC from what I can tell.

Would Bob be my uncle?
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Old 12th September 2017, 1:54 PM   #2
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should be fine, only the PSU may be an issue.
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Old 12th September 2017, 2:02 PM   #3
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Ah I'd assumed that I'd be able to use my AU SMS PSU, which is 9v from memory. Will have to look into that.

My telly does NTSC 4.43 and 3.58 according to the OSD - would a US or Japanese console be my best bet? They use different NTSC standards from what I read.
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Old 12th September 2017, 2:53 PM   #4
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Ah I'd assumed that I'd be able to use my AU SMS PSU, which is 9v from memory. Will have to look into that.
Different revisions of consoles, even within the same model, have different voltage requirements. Match your volts exactly, and get a power supply that meets or exceeds the amp draw specified on your console.

You'd be surprised at what matches up. An Australia SNES, for example, requires AC input at low voltage, which is the same as an Australian NES. But a Japanese Super Famicom takes the same input as an Australian Megadrive. Go figure.

Just read the specs on the bottom of the console, and take that as gospel per unit. Don't assume any two units are alike, and double check every time you plug something into power.

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My telly does NTSC 4.43 and 3.58 according to the OSD - would a US or Japanese console be my best bet? They use different NTSC standards from what I read.
There's no difference from an output point of view between a Japanese Mark III and a US Master System. They'll produce exactly the same picture (NTSC 3.58).

NTSC 4.43 is a less common format used very rarely.

There's also no region locking on the Master System, so games will work in any console from a software point of view

*** BUT *** the Sega Mark III cartridge pin count is different. I think the Mark III is 50pin, versus the Master System 44 pin? You can get converters cheap either way, as they're just straight wire through with no extra magic.

If you've got a large library of Master System games, a US Master System is likely your best bet. If you've just got the one flash cart, a Japanese Mark III and a converter isn't a bad way to go, as then you get the FM sound as well for the handful of games that support it.

I'll be in Japan early next year, and will see if I can pick myself up a Mark III and some 3D glasses, as both are on my wishlist. I'd also love an SG1000, but there's so much on my shopping list, I might not get all of it.
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Old 12th September 2017, 2:59 PM   #5
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I'll be in Japan early next year, and will see if I can pick myself up a Mark III and some 3D glasses, as both are on my wishlist. I'd also love an SG1000, but there's so much on my shopping list, I might not get all of it.
Easy to find, just need the money.
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Old 12th September 2017, 3:41 PM   #6
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Easy to find, just need the money.
And space in my luggage.
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Old 12th September 2017, 3:42 PM   #7
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And space in my luggage.
just post it to yourself
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Old 12th September 2017, 3:47 PM   #8
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just post it to yourself
Hrm... wonder what that would cost. Good idea if it's not crazy expensive.
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Old 12th September 2017, 3:50 PM   #9
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i had a super famicom back in the day and it worked fine with a local TV that could do NTSC 3.58.

I got a US SNES recently and am looking for a CRT TV that can do NTSC at the moment. Could i ask what model trinitron you have?

Probably a dumb question but if i'm using component input, is that still encoded PAL/NTSC?
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Old 12th September 2017, 4:01 PM   #10
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Probably a dumb question but if i'm using component input, is that still encoded PAL/NTSC?
Actually, not a dumb question at all. I had to look this up.

YPbPr (the analogue standard used in component) is one standard, with a defined co-efficient for the colour calculations. So whether you send 25p/50i, 29.97p/59.94i/59.97i, or 30p/60i, it's all colour encoded the same way. Makes sense, as you can get RGB to YPbPr converters that don't care at all about the console you've got attached.

S-Video and CVBS use per-standard coefficients, different for PAL, NTSC and SECAM.

So answering directly, no, YPbPr is not PAL/NTSC encoded, but rather it's own standard. Makes sense, as YPbPr was designed for equipment plugged into displays, rather than broadcast over a fixed radio spectrum per country.
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Old 12th September 2017, 4:07 PM   #11
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Thanks for the great answers guys, great detail as always elvis

Might be an option then - masses of SMS mark 1's on U.S eBay for reasonable money despite all the literature I've read claiming that the SMS was a bust in the U.S of A. Just a massive market I guess.

@Bion1c - it's a little 14" kv-pg14p10. Only composite in but it's still a really nice image at that screen size. I'm unreasonably attached to it actually, not looking forward to the day it kicks the bucket.
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Old 12th September 2017, 4:07 PM   #12
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Hrm... wonder what that would cost. Good idea if it's not crazy expensive.
Sometimes its cheaper to post from Japan than within Australia. Check the EMS site.

http://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/ems/index_en.html
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Old 12th September 2017, 4:16 PM   #13
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Might be an option then - masses of SMS mark 1's on U.S eBay for reasonable money despite all the literature I've read claiming that the SMS was a bust in the U.S of A. Just a massive market I guess.
From what I understand, Sega put Tonka (the toy truck manufacturer) in charge of advertising in the US for the Master System. End result was a shambles of a job, and Nintendo more or less walked in to an open market with no competition.

On top of that, Nintendo were *very* smart. The US was in prime "video games are the devil" mode. Nintendo took very deliberate steps to market the NES. They included

1) Making it look like a VCR, and not a video game system. This played into America's love of TV.

2) Shipping it with a lightgun, because Americans love guns.

Call them blatant stereotypes if you like, but the NES dominated the 8 bit market in America for precisely the reasons above.

I'm listening to the back catalogue of "Retronauts" at the moment, and it's very clear North Americans born in the late 70s and early 80s pretty much experienced gaming as exclusively Nintendo products across their childhood. Even their attitude is one of "anything Sega make sucked", despite there being an ample volume of great titles on early Sega hardware.

It wasn't until the Megadrive/Genesis era when Sega took back their advertising, and pushed hard with sports titles and advertising filled with "teen attitude" that they wrangled some of that market share back from Nintendo, who made the fatal mistake of being a little bit too PG-13 with their games for a US audience.

Compare and contrast to South America, who have a deep love of all things Sega, even today.

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Sometimes its cheaper to post from Japan than within Australia. Check the EMS site.

http://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/ems/index_en.html
Those rates are quite impressive. No wonder Australia Post is hurting.
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Old 12th September 2017, 4:45 PM   #14
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Actually, not a dumb question at all. I had to look this up.

YPbPr (the analogue standard used in component) is one standard, with a defined co-efficient for the colour calculations. So whether you send 25p/50i, 29.97p/59.94i/59.97i, or 30p/60i, it's all colour encoded the same way. Makes sense, as you can get RGB to YPbPr converters that don't care at all about the console you've got attached.

S-Video and CVBS use per-standard coefficients, different for PAL, NTSC and SECAM.

So answering directly, no, YPbPr is not PAL/NTSC encoded, but rather it's own standard. Makes sense, as YPbPr was designed for equipment plugged into displays, rather than broadcast over a fixed radio spectrum per country.
Thanks elvis. very helpful. it's the answer i was hoping for if i get a local trinitron with component i should hopefully be ok with my US SNES.. should hold me over till i can eventually get a decent PVM/BVM
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Old 12th September 2017, 5:11 PM   #15
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Thanks elvis. very helpful. it's the answer i was hoping for if i get a local trinitron with component i should hopefully be ok with my US SNES.. should hold me over till i can eventually get a decent PVM/BVM
a mate of mine had a US tele and I used a PAL Saturn on it through SCART no worries. Good TV's are pretty forgiving unlike a lot of shitty modern LCD's.
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