To all people thinking of playing with 240V - Page 6

DistoProto · 22nd July 2003, 6:13 PM

The problem is that they only seem to recognize knowledge if you have a degree, I'm a year and a bit away from finishing mine, but I've done all the power electrics that i'm ever going to do.
I fully agree that it's the regs and standards that are important, I've got no problems doing a course for them .... even if they are f**ked. Anyone ever have a problem with the 3-phase color codes - they are different for fixed wiring compared to a flexible lead - bit stupid if you ask me.

Symon · 22nd July 2003, 6:44 PM

Heh, interesting point. I'm not exactly sure why that discrepancy exists. I think it has something to do with standardising flexible leads for exporting to other countries. The colouring of fixed wiring changes from country to country, but flexible wiring is at least somewhat standard. It is a bit stupid having brown-blue-black as your phase colours though.

LethalCorpse · 24th July 2003, 5:20 PM

Okay, great, so this stuff is all now in a sticky, and we have all the OCAU licensed electricians and civil servants chipping in to say "don't work with 240V it's illegal and bad for you". So, from now on, can we keep the proselytising restricted to this thread? Next time a 240V thread comes up, can you guys just save us all the fingerwork and say "Please read the 240V sticky"? You can then feel confident that your civil duty to save DIY people from themselves has been fulfilled, and it is now Somebody Else's Problem.

punktured · 24th July 2003, 5:41 PM

I'm in my 1st year as an electrician and all you ppl who play round with 240V are plain stupid! I dont know how other states are but in Vic we can't even replace a socket outlet without getting a safety certificate signed but an E grade so its not worth doing your own work and if you do and your place burns down then bye bye insurance.

Quote:

Electricians support the strict standards because it gives them a monopoly position in repair and wiring. They just want to create a guaranteed demand for their services.

That is just bullshit, i hate half the regs in there and so does everyone i work with, but if we dont comply with these standards its our ass thats gona get fried

Baker · 26th July 2003, 8:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LethalCorpse
Okay, great, so this stuff is all now in a sticky, and we have all the OCAU licensed electricians and civil servants chipping in to say "don't work with 240V it's illegal and bad for you". So, from now on, can we keep the proselytising restricted to this thread? Next time a 240V thread comes up, can you guys just save us all the fingerwork and say "Please read the 240V sticky"? You can then feel confident that your civil duty to save DIY people from themselves has been fulfilled, and it is now Somebody Else's Problem.

Na, we'll still say it - and the thread will get closed as it is discussing illegal things.

LethalCorpse · 26th July 2003, 1:10 PM

People are gonna do 240V wiring whether they have your blessing or not, regardless of the fact that it is illegal. So is travelling 1km/hr over the speed limit, and owning MP3s, but you wouldn't manage to stop people from doing those things just because you had a license to either. So when folks come here for confirmation of a particular wiring technique, or ask for guidance on extra precautions they need to take when doing a particular job, is it better to tell them to read this sticky and then tell them what (although illegal) they need to do, Or just close the thread knowing full well they're going to turn around and do it with or without your help? Like injection rooms and legalisation and regulation of low level drugs, you can get a lot more people dead by hiding behind the laws than assisting and monitoring use. But that doesn't matter, because your arses are covered...

Gnuthad · 26th July 2003, 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LethalCorpse
People are gonna do 240V wiring whether they have your blessing or not, regardless of the fact that it is illegal. ... So when folks come here for confirmation of a particular wiring technique, or ask for guidance on extra precautions they need to take when doing a particular job, is it better to tell them to read this sticky and then tell them what (although illegal) they need to do, Or just close the thread knowing full well they're going to turn around and do it with or without your help?

Whilst it would be better for them not to attempt the work in the first place, I personally hold the view that it is better to at least tell the correct and safe way of doing the work whilst highlighting the fact that the person should not be doing the work to start with than it is to totally refuse any assistance to the person and have them do the wrong thing and get injured/worse as a result.

As in this thread, whilst I would prefer that the person asking not actually attempt the work, I consider it far wiser to at least give the facts in the case so that the person going against my advice to not attempt the work can at least do it with some degree of safely.

Symon · 27th July 2003, 4:34 PM

LC - which threads were closed because they mentioned modifications with 240V?

LethalCorpse · 27th July 2003, 5:01 PM

I haven't seen any closed, just Baker suggested that that would be the course of action

rickbishop · 27th July 2003, 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Symon
All I can say to you is get your hand off it and come off your high horse. More knowledge and experience than 80% of sparkies? I don't think so mate.... 500kW is nothing, the largest motor I have connected ran off 11kV and was 4.5MW. I have worked on transmission lines up to 275kV, and in smelters where the line currents have been as high as 335kA. And I still consider myself rather green.... Not all sparkies pull wires in houses....

As for working unqualified, I know heaps of people who do that, but they all are supervised, or have their work inspected before energising, otherwise you wouldn't be in business very long. I will agree though, safety is paramount, and that is what seperates qualified from non-qualified people. Licenced sparkies know the rules (and there are a lot of them!), that's why we bother to have licences in the first place.

Obviously, you are in the 20% that work on real electrical instalations. I said 80% because that would be the number who have only ever wired up houses (nb: not real figures).

As for working supervised, it is usually me that is supervising the sparky, not the other way round. I am employing him to do my hookups (because I legally have to, not because I can't do it), and I check his work. When one light costs upwards of $20k, and you have 60 of them, you don't want some idiot to link two of the phases and send 415v down the line to them. I also know the rules (applicable to my industry), but having a piece of paper doesn't mean that they're not idiots.

Symon · 27th July 2003, 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LethalCorpse
I haven't seen any closed, just Baker suggested that that would be the course of action

Fair enough, I can see where you are coming from now! I have to agree with Gnuthead, most of the time I give the required info that they need, and a <add rant about dangerous voltages> added on as well. Which I think is the best way. I would agree that it is far better to tell them the best and safest way instead of just giving out a serve and closing the thread.

Symon · 27th July 2003, 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickbishop
Obviously, you are in the 20% that work on real electrical instalations. I said 80% because that would be the number who have only ever wired up houses (nb: not real figures).

I would say it would be about 50/50

Quote:

Originally posted by rickbishop
<snip> I also know the rules (applicable to my industry), but having a piece of paper doesn't mean that they're not idiots.

If you read my previous posts you will see that I totally agree with you. Unfortunately there are idiots in any industry, the electrical one is no exception.

CailYoung · 29th July 2003, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickbishop
When one light costs upwards of $20k, and you have 60 of them, you don't want some idiot to link two of the phases and send 415v down the line to them.

Are you a theatrical electrician working on a moving light install? Fun. Or I'm guessing wrong.

Cail

DistoProto · 30th July 2003, 12:36 PM

I'd say he is

Maud'Dib · 30th July 2003, 2:21 PM

Quote:

Another new area of pain is the “household low voltage wiring”, such as network cables or house alarm wiring. I see that you must now the licensed (in VIC) to perform these tasks! What a joke! I fail to see any danger for a DIY’r on tasks such as these yet a licence is now need on “intrinsically safe” equipment that runs on dangerous voltages such as “12volts”.

You need an Austel license to install network/telephone cables, NOT an electrical license.

22nd July 2003, 6:44 PM	#77
Symon (Plugging your Socket) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brisbane QLD Posts: 2,824	Heh, interesting point. I'm not exactly sure why that discrepancy exists. I think it has something to do with standardising flexible leads for exporting to other countries. The colouring of fixed wiring changes from country to country, but flexible wiring is at least somewhat standard. It is a bit stupid having brown-blue-black as your phase colours though. __________________ DISCLAIMER - The mindless babble of this post does not constitute professional advice. I will not be held responsible if you choose to act on this advice. Unless I tell you to eat jellybeans, everyone likes jellybeans OCAU's self-appointed electrical safety expert - Founder of the bakasan Technical College - enrollments welcome. -- My Web Server in a Box

24th July 2003, 5:20 PM	#78
LethalCorpse Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Harris Park, NSW Posts: 3,799	Okay, great, so this stuff is all now in a sticky, and we have all the OCAU licensed electricians and civil servants chipping in to say "don't work with 240V it's illegal and bad for you". So, from now on, can we keep the proselytising restricted to this thread? Next time a 240V thread comes up, can you guys just save us all the fingerwork and say "Please read the 240V sticky"? You can then feel confident that your civil duty to save DIY people from themselves has been fulfilled, and it is now Somebody Else's Problem. __________________ Sig Of Shame removed.

26th July 2003, 1:10 PM	#81
LethalCorpse Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Harris Park, NSW Posts: 3,799	People are gonna do 240V wiring whether they have your blessing or not, regardless of the fact that it is illegal. So is travelling 1km/hr over the speed limit, and owning MP3s, but you wouldn't manage to stop people from doing those things just because you had a license to either. So when folks come here for confirmation of a particular wiring technique, or ask for guidance on extra precautions they need to take when doing a particular job, is it better to tell them to read this sticky and then tell them what (although illegal) they need to do, Or just close the thread knowing full well they're going to turn around and do it with or without your help? Like injection rooms and legalisation and regulation of low level drugs, you can get a lot more people dead by hiding behind the laws than assisting and monitoring use. But that doesn't matter, because your arses are covered... __________________ Sig Of Shame removed. Last edited by LethalCorpse; 26th July 2003 at 1:12 PM.

27th July 2003, 4:34 PM	#83
Symon (Plugging your Socket) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brisbane QLD Posts: 2,824	LC - which threads were closed because they mentioned modifications with 240V? __________________ DISCLAIMER - The mindless babble of this post does not constitute professional advice. I will not be held responsible if you choose to act on this advice. Unless I tell you to eat jellybeans, everyone likes jellybeans OCAU's self-appointed electrical safety expert - Founder of the bakasan Technical College - enrollments welcome. -- My Web Server in a Box

27th July 2003, 5:01 PM	#84
LethalCorpse Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Harris Park, NSW Posts: 3,799	I haven't seen any closed, just Baker suggested that that would be the course of action __________________ Sig Of Shame removed.

22nd July 2003, 6:13 PM	#76
DistoProto Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 393	The problem is that they only seem to recognize knowledge if you have a degree, I'm a year and a bit away from finishing mine, but I've done all the power electrics that i'm ever going to do. I fully agree that it's the regs and standards that are important, I've got no problems doing a course for them .... even if they are f**ked. Anyone ever have a problem with the 3-phase color codes - they are different for fixed wiring compared to a flexible lead - bit stupid if you ask me.

30th July 2003, 12:36 PM	#89
DistoProto Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 393	I'd say he is