Banias vs Dothan

[killerwombat]

What is the difference in performance, clock for clock?

I want to get an IBM X31 with P-M 1.5G (Banias) for very cheap overseas, but I don't want it to be "obsolete" so soon.

If the difference is considerable, I will consider a T42 with P-M 1.7G (Dothan), but it will cost quite a bit more.

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by killerwombat
What is the difference in performance, clock for clock?

I want to get an IBM X31 with P-M 1.5G (Banias) for very cheap overseas, but I don't want it to be "obsolete" so soon.

If the difference is considerable, I will consider a T42 with P-M 1.7G (Dothan), but it will cost quite a bit more.

check out the intel forum, we have several threads running, and in one of them, I recall, a new review is linked, comparing Dothan and Banias. The difference is actually quite substantial.

[orF]

Theres definitely an improvement clock for clock, it's not massive though.

http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/c...n/dothan-4.htm

Make the choice based on your needs and bank balance. :P

[killerwombat]

There is definitely a significant improvement. Looks like I'll be getting a Dothan.

Thanks guys for your help:

[orF]

If that small increase in performance matters regardless of the extra cost so much that you call it significant think of the extra benefit from an Athlon 64 in a laptop...

Probably cheaper and faster than a 2ghz Dothan aswell.

[killerwombat]

But I don't want to sacrifice battery life at all, so an A64 is out of the question.

[PogiPinoy]

yupz dem mobile athlon 64s eat up battery like crazy

my 1.7 banias i bought in jan lasts max 5.5hrs and min 3.5

[orF]

You realise your sacrificing battery life with a Dothan, over Banias? :P

Or isn't the difference "significant"? :P

I'd go for a Dothan aswell over Banias.
But I don't reckon the cost is worth it at the moment for the performance increase.

But anyway, each to their own significance.

[Zardoz]

I was under the impression that clock-for-clock, the Dothan processors offered superior power management.

[stmok]

Actually, compared to the Prescott, the Dothan doesn't suffer the same major heat issues.

Its not only about manufacturing process, its also about architecture as well. Intel did delay the Dothan to resolve some heat issues, and it did quite well. It is said that Dothans run slightly cooler than Banias.

Hmmm, let's take a look at Intel's Processor Spec Finder.

To prove that it ain't just one speed grade benefiting, we'll look at 1.4Ghz and 1.7Ghz

Pentium-M 1.4Ghz (400Mhz)
SL6F5, 0.13 micron, 1 MB 479 pin H-PBGA FC-BGA2
=> Thermal Guideline : 22.0W (Banias)
SL6F8, 0.13 micron, 1 MB, 478 pin PPGA FC-PGA2
=> Thermal Guideline : 22.0W (Banias)
SL7F3, 90 nm, 2 MB, 479 pin H-PBGA
=> Thermal Guideline : 10.0W (Dothan)


Pentium-M 1.7Ghz (400Mhz)
SL6N9, 0.13 micron, 1 MB, 479 pin H-PBGA FC-BGA2
=> Thermal Guideline : 24.5W (Banias)
SL6N5, 0.13 micron, 1 MB, 478 pin PPGA FC-PGA2
=> Thermal Guideline : 24.5W (Banias)
SL7EP, 90 nm, 2 MB 478 pin PPGA
=> Thermal Guideline : 21.0W (Dothan)

Interestingly...

Pentium-M 2.0Ghz (400Mhz)
SL7EM, 90 nm, 2 MB, 478 pin PPGA
=> Thermal Guideline : 21.0W (Dothan)

[killerwombat]

Ok, thanks for all the info. I've decided I'm getting a T42 with P-M 1.5G (Dothan). Not as expensive as the P-M 1.7G, but I think the extra over the Banias will be worth it as the Banias is already obsolete.

[fate202]

Came across this old discussion forum because was trying for the life of me to determine whether my 15" screen laptop (Toshiba M60 Satellite with Intel Pentium M 1.73GHz) processor was code name "Banias or Dothan". Banias is some ancient site in Golan heights, Israel whereas Dothan is a historical Israeli town. Not that the latter trivia matters much, but thought it was interesting.

Since Dothan appears to have the small edge in cache memory performance - it leads the average user (me) on a wild goose chase to discover which one of the Israeli sites are embedded within. Also it appears that Intel and/or Toshiba didn't make it very easy to discover, for example, couldn't easily find the cache size in the "control panel - system - general" tab, nor does it (system info) describe whether the processor is code name Dothan or Banias.

Was up for a challenge, so decided to post some things I learned just in case the odd chance someone else in this complex world ever wanted some help. Maybe a Nigerian princess in Africa wants to know this old stuff, and probably redundant info such that this read will keep her keepers busy for a while

Various info is from wiki, several chat rooms, diagnosis sites, Toshiba, Intel, review sites etc), and if this adventure saves the next user a few hours, or the princess escapes her captors... so be it:

The first Pentium M class processor was code named "Banias"

The Pentium M brand refers to a family of mobile 32-bit single-core x86 microprocessors (with the modified Intel P6 microarchitecture) introduced in
March 2003 (during the heyday of the Pentium 4 desktop CPUs), and forming a part of the Intel Carmel notebook platform under the then new Centrino brand. The Pentium M processors were intended for use in laptops (thus the "M" suffix standing for mobile). They evolved from the core of the last Pentium III–branded CPU by adding the front-side bus (FSB) interface of Pentium 4, an improved instruction decoding and issuing front end, improved branch prediction, SSE2 support, and a much larger cache. The Pentium M-branded processors were succeeded by the Core-branded dual-core mobile Yonah CPU with a modified microarchitecture.

Whether your old laptop with Intel M processor is "Banias" generation or "Dothan" can be traced back to whether the L2 cache is respectively
1MB or 2MB, so one would think to do the run command "dxdiag" since general system info does not label the ancient Israeli name tags herein.

Run command "dxdiag" to my surprise didn't indicate cache size or provide details about the codename processor "Golan Heights" vs "Dothan", but keep in mind I'm not an advanced tech savy user, and have rarely ever posted anything of this nature, so maybe it was in that messy list of diagnostic info, who knows...

Not that it matter much but Dothan is 5% to maybe 10% better operating ability vs Banias according to some performance & diagnostic sites.

Purchase timeline doesn't help nail it down either (say anywhere from 2003-2005 could be either), and then things can depend whether you buy used off eBay or new at some store. The shelf tag doesn't talk about the ancient Israel site in relation to the Intel M class processor, and God only knows just how long electronic stuff remains on a store shelf anyways. Geeks at the store are rarely old enough to know this, so their answer will be "time to buy a new computer - you cheap sob". Fwiw, Arabs will probably only buy AMD after hearing about this, and maybe that's why Toshiba & Intel elected to hide the nomenclature in the first place, hmmm, "so that's how they been finding us Achmed..."

Couldn't find any such Israeli ancient name specs at the manufacture's site for a 15" screen laptop either. Most with Dothan codename processors were 17" thus again leading me to think the Toshiba M60 Satellite is "Banias" class. Also the 1.73GHz speed of my laptop leads some chat forums to think Dothan class since Banias only went up to 1.7GHz; however, since 1.73GHz rounds off just the same (math speaking) to 1.7GHz made me think mine could be Banias class processor (significant digits?). Being on the cusp just had my curiousity going plus another chat forum suggested Dothan started at 1.8GHz was all a fallacy in the making (Dothan class actually started much lower than 1.73GHz, in fact, and therefore the speed is not the best indicator to determine Intel's codename processor class). Not much consistency of info.
One chat room suggested that Peacock Blue color only came out when Dothan replaced Banias, but I still wanted to make sure by checking the cache size - that's what this hunt was about...

Random rant aside... someone - somewhere suggested downloading & running "cpuid.com" program, and this easy to install program indeed easily confirms the laptop as "Dothan" processor class, and shows the cache in another tab that confirms the extra cache vs Banias class. Dothan has 2MB of L2 cache.

Toshiba Intel Pentium M 1.73GHz processor with 15" monitor in peacock blue was, in fact, nearly the last before Intel M class processors began the switch to batch version numbers (vs processor speed in GHz). My processor is technically an Intel M 740 Dothan.

Don't assume 1.73GHz speed for your Centrino laptop means it's Dothan is the point in all this I think - maybe someone smarter than myself can comment...

Anyways, more random stuff learned:

The L1 d-cache (data-cache) is 32K bytes, and the L1 i-cache (instruction cache) is 32K bytes, and the holy grail in determining whether the Toshiba M60 Satellite 1.73GHz Intel Pentium M is equipped with either the "Banias" or "Dothan" codename processor is indeed the L2 cache because this pig has 2048K bytes (1000K byte = 1MB) or ~2MB of L2 cache. I think Banias processors were built with only 1MB of L2 cache.

When the processor needs to read from or write to a location in main memory, it first checks whether a copy of that data is in the cache. If so, the processor immediately reads from or writes to the cache, which is much faster than reading from or writing to main memory.

Most modern desktop and server CPUs have at least three independent caches: an instruction cache to speed up executable instruction fetch, a data cache to speed up data fetch and store, and a translation lookaside buffer (TLB) used to speed up virtual-to-physical address translation for both
executable instructions and data. The data cache is usually organized as a hierarchy of more cache levels (L1, L2 etc; hence multi level caches)


The extra info from run command "dxdiag" didn't help, and sorry if this is the wrong message board (I had about half a dozen up trying to figure things out, and my Dothan pig of a laptop crashed enough times to cause me to lose my place, and which is why I made this post after several hours)
------------------
System Information

general system details: Toshiba Satellite M60 laptop 15" screen (peacock blue enclosure color) Intel Pentium M 1.73GHz, and with windows XP, home edition, vr 2002, service pack3; standard comes with 512MB DDR Ram (can hold ~2MB ram using two ~1MB Ram chips max).

PS I'm using three times the Ram that it came with, so 1.5MB DDR Ram and it is still a pig, and likes to crash easy with multiple browsers up at once. Just in case anyone was thinking to beef up their 8 year old Toshiba laptop with more Ram - you're better off buying a $400 new computer than investing in Ram.

[Narcoticx2]

Talk about a necro

To easily see what CPU you have, run CPU-Z, it'll tell you.

Things sure have come a long way.

[EvilGenius]

Originally Posted by Narcoticx2

Talk about a necro

To easily see what CPU you have, run CPU-Z, it'll tell you.

Things sure have come a long way.

The scary thing here is.. He DID run cpuz, and still we have this giant wall of text

[Gonadman2]

If every member posted this sort of quality researched info just once on their topic of interest, this site would be better off for it.

If nothing else, I enjoyed the read fate202.