Large fall in Ram Prices??

Kelvin · 23rd March 2005, 8:16 PM

Is there any reason why generic 512mg DDR400 sticks are now $55 each
and hynix 1gig DDR sticks are $140 each

?????

This is the cheapest... I have ever seen memory prices at... ever...

Edit .. the prices are from MSY...

TaroT · 23rd March 2005, 8:32 PM

where is it 55 might grab a few more

my guess is an over abundance of the stuff and the dollar.

fo3 · 23rd March 2005, 8:52 PM

Thanks for the head up, ram has dropped big time and I didn't know it.
The cheapest I can find in perth is a PLE: generic 512MB sticks $62, kingmax super ram $85 or netplus: generic $62, hyundai hynix $88. None of them are listing cheap 1gb sticks though

eva2000 · 23rd March 2005, 9:03 PM

yeah memory and even flash memory prices have fallen probably due to fall in US dollar against Australian dollar

i.e. http://www.powerinnumbers.com.au/ has a huge discount sale on flash memory picked up a few things myself hehe

ArcTan · 23rd March 2005, 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

yeah memory and even flash memory prices have fallen probably due to fall in US dollar against Australian dollar

i.e. http://www.powerinnumbers.com.au/ has a huge discount sale on flash memory picked up a few things myself hehe

but then most memory manufacturers aren't in the us?

Tony · 23rd March 2005, 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcTan

but then most memory manufacturers aren't in the us?

No but the Taiwanese and Koreans want payments in USD.

Sounds like a glut in the market.

T.

xsive · 23rd March 2005, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

yeah memory and even flash memory prices have fallen probably due to fall in US dollar against Australian dollar

i.e. http://www.powerinnumbers.com.au/ has a huge discount sale on flash memory picked up a few things myself hehe

worst. website. ever.
No prices on anything until you go to their crappy slow store.

watsrags · 23rd March 2005, 11:30 PM

I just got

GEIL High Performance 512MB PC3200 DDR (400Mhz) SDRAM for $92 from Pluscorp after watching the price sit in the mid $120 for many weeks am very happy

Akimbo · 24th March 2005, 4:14 AM

there was a pre-warning at TCM site about 1 month ago, about RAM prices dropping, and good for that ay....its actually starting, hope that the XMS4400c25 is lower, best default DDR550 out so far.

Romen · 24th March 2005, 9:15 AM

And it appears Winbond BH5 is back in production....

commando · 24th March 2005, 9:20 AM

Wow, 55 dollars

I think im gonna have to pick up a few of these sticks; thanks for the headsup

z2177199 · 24th March 2005, 9:23 AM

Is Hynix RAM any good?

Varuna · 24th March 2005, 8:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

yeah memory and even flash memory prices have fallen probably due to fall in US dollar against Australian dollar

i.e. http://www.powerinnumbers.com.au/ has a huge discount sale on flash memory picked up a few things myself hehe

The 4GB CF cards arent that great value.

GreenBeret · 24th March 2005, 9:01 PM

Yeah, the drop is pretty drastic. At MSY, the Hyundai 1GB was $290 just a few days ago. Now it's $140!

kingyubbo · 24th March 2005, 9:20 PM

Cool... might pick up 1Gb of GEIL DDR for $90. Sounds good to me!!

ArcTan · 24th March 2005, 9:34 PM

are there other places with drops of memory that big?
looking at some vendors it looks like prices have only dropped about $10 within the last few weeks

xtortion · 24th March 2005, 9:54 PM

STOCK UP PEOPLE

autumn21 · 24th March 2005, 11:26 PM

$55 is really very cheap!!

jwira · 25th March 2005, 7:30 PM

Arrrgh, I just bought a hynix 512MB for 85 last week. Now it only costs 65, I want my refund

aussie7 · 26th March 2005, 2:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingyubbo

Cool... might pick up 1Gb of GEIL DDR for $90. Sounds good to me!!

good luck finding 1gb for $90

cheapest I've seen Geil value 2 x 512 (1gb) is $182 www.umart.net (25-03-05) which is good concidering it was around $225+ about 5 weeks ago

Just hope it stays this cheap for another few weeks

dinos22 · 26th March 2005, 11:41 AM

it wouldn't be currency as it's been steady at current rates for last couple of months.....most likely oversupply in spot market.....dumping ddr1 sticks.....stock up i'd say boys

aussie-revhead · 28th March 2005, 3:27 AM

My question is :

With stock ram being so cheap , would you get a bigger kick from buying 2 GB of stock ram and overclocking to what it can , or buy 1 GB of top line ram for higher overclock ? I could have bought 2 GB of GeIL 3200 for what I just spent on 2 x 512 OCZ EL . Its got me wondering .

Pazu · 28th March 2005, 9:50 AM

hmm.. TCCDs still cost a bit.
lol.

Perhaps it's time for me to get some DDR550 (although my top capable speed is most likely nowhere near that speed)
lol.

zeltra · 28th March 2005, 9:57 AM

great news, I've been waiting for a time like this to add another 512 to my system

spectreofgloom · 28th March 2005, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie-revhead

My question is :

With stock ram being so cheap , would you get a bigger kick from buying 2 GB of stock ram and overclocking to what it can , or buy 1 GB of top line ram for higher overclock ? I could have bought 2 GB of GeIL 3200 for what I just spent on 2 x 512 OCZ EL . Its got me wondering .

It depends on what you are doing with it though, while I haven't tested it, I would imagine that in most cases, the high performance 2x512 would be better.

OCIT · 28th March 2005, 4:50 PM

Can someone explain, that, why, our prices have DROPPED in comparison, with an excuse of the aus vs US dollar, BUT US prices have gone sky high?

Crucial memory. They had 1GB Ballistix sticks, i've bought from $129US, then $149, $169 and they are now $288!!!!

WTF is with that, when our prices are so low? Also, any retailers that will deliver that are selling those Hynix Hyundai 1GB sticks for around $140-160

SelfCtrl · 28th March 2005, 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z2177199

Is Hynix RAM any good?

No. I had a 256 PC133 blow up on me in just 2 weeks.

psynapse · 28th March 2005, 5:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romen

And it appears Winbond BH5 is back in production....

Yup, all newer shipments of GeIL Ultra-X 3200 are using UTT/BH-5 chips

Richie13 · 28th March 2005, 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z2177199

Is Hynix RAM any good?

i've got 2 sticks of legend ram with Hynix chips on them and they are working fine for me.

i o/ced them to 175 and they worked ok

hoping to get some heat spreaders on them soon to make them more reliable if i were to up the FSB any more

ArcTan · 28th March 2005, 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psynapse

Yup, all newer shipments of GeIL Ultra-X 3200 are using UTT/BH-5 chips

just BH-5
it's very hard to get UTT to do 2-2-2-x with low voltages

Swisshut · 28th March 2005, 10:37 PM

Exactly where is the cheapest ram? I tried to check out MSY but their font size is too small to read!!

Edit: Oops, didnt have acrobat installed.

512mb DDR400 Ram 3200 $62 from PLE. Then again... DDR2 533MHZ 512MB $109. Whats the performance diff here?

Reaper · 28th March 2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swisshut

Exactly where is the cheapest ram? I tried to check out MSY but their font size is too small to read!!

Edit: Oops, didnt have acrobat installed.

512mb DDR400 Ram 3200 $62 from PLE. Then again... DDR2 533MHZ 512MB $109. Whats the performance diff here?

I wouldn't worry about peformance difference, I'd be worrying more about what platform your computer is to what RAM it can use in the first place.

Quote:

Cool... might pick up 1Gb of GEIL DDR for $90. Sounds good to me!!

Where?

Quote:

WTF is with that, when our prices are so low? Also, any retailers that will deliver that are selling those Hynix Hyundai 1GB sticks for around $140-160

What he said about the deliver part. MSY is good and all, but not to most of us.

Also as a little funny, I've been watching some auctions on EBAY lately and they're still selling generic 512MB for ~$80-90. Dumb n00b bidders.

Myne_h · 28th March 2005, 11:20 PM

Now that PCI-E is on all new mobo's and has assloads of bandwith, it's time for ram cards.
A simple 4 or 8x card with say 4-8 DDR slots on it that masquerades as a mass storage device.
Why?
Well realistically we dont need 3gb of ultra highspeed UberSoopaMegaTwinAlienWarp ram. A single gig of good shit and a couple of slower generic stuff would be perfect. Allow the OS to use it as a swap drive and your box can be overclocked, and not hideously expensive.
Ofcourse, it means you cant go SLI with your dual 16x mobo, but who gives a rats

I cant wait.

/\ngus · 28th March 2005, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swisshut

512mb DDR400 Ram 3200 $62 from PLE. Then again... DDR2 533MHZ 512MB $109. Whats the performance diff here?

You do realise you can't use DDR2 RAM in a DDR motherboard, right? You don't want to be buying DDR2 if you can't use it

Swisshut · 28th March 2005, 11:58 PM

Ram Cards? Never heard of them... but sounds very interesting!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myne_h

Now that PCI-E is on all new mobo's and has assloads of bandwith, it's time for ram cards.
A simple 4 or 8x card with say 4-8 DDR slots on it that masquerades as a mass storage device.
I cant wait.

Reaper · 29th March 2005, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swisshut

Ram Cards? Never heard of them... but sounds very interesting!

Yea, they arn't exactly new, been around for xt/at systems in the form of a plug in expansion card (ISA). Even the amiga had zorro based ones I think as well.

Modern computer system onboard RAM slots have been able to have great enough RAM upgradeability to not need them anymore.

Reaper · 29th March 2005, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myne_h

Ofcourse, it means you cant go SLI with your dual 16x mobo, but who gives a rats

I cant wait.

That's what SLI on a single card is for then.

Swisshut · 29th March 2005, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper

Yea, they arn't exactly new, been around for xt/at systems in the form of a plug in expansion card (ISA). Even the amiga had zorro based ones I think as well.

I googled but couldnt find any such products... have u got any links?

aussie-revhead · 29th March 2005, 12:22 AM

I was thinking along those lines myself , I read on another thread that a guy used a seperate hard drive for page file use only , but since page files are only 1-2 GB it seems a waste to use a whole hard drive , and not only would an extra 1-2 Gb of dedicated ram take up less space but its also much faster . Is this kind of thing on its way , or are we dreaming ?

P.S. Eddie at Fluidtek has generic DDR for $55 / 512 MB , though anything other than pick-up can be a hassle . Custo's prices are probably about the same . Try staticice .

Reaper · 29th March 2005, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swisshut

I googled but couldnt find any such products... have u got any links?

Probably hard to find them, I grew up with them, so it's first hand experience.

http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/recog.htm

There's a rough guide to some old proprietry stuff. Check out the AT based one. The motherboard it plugged into most likely only had either soldered on or only up to ~1MB sockets for some RAM chips that were the same type of package as those on the expansion card, leaving that card as the only other RAM upgrade path. But there were some universal ISA slot cards floating around back then.

Where as today we have ~3 sockets with typically being able to add up to 1GB modules so expansion cards arn't really needed.

bigred · 29th March 2005, 12:27 AM

Yeah i'll pick up 2GB's for sure.. so very cheap.

I remember paying 150 perstick of pc100 64mb... wow..

/\ngus · 29th March 2005, 12:29 AM

Can you imagine the performance hit of running a "RAM card" over a PCI or PCI-E 1X bus though?

Reaper · 29th March 2005, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie-revhead

I was thinking along those lines myself , I read on another thread that a guy used a seperate hard drive for page file use only , but since page files are only 1-2 GB it seems a waste to use a whole hard drive , and not only would an extra 1-2 Gb of dedicated ram take up less space but its also much faster . Is this kind of thing on its way , or are we dreaming ?

I've got a seperate 4GB SCSI drive in my LAN machine just for page file....

Anyway, that's probably the only use I can see for a modern RAM drive in a normal desktop system and the market would be pretty limited as only the real enthusiast would buy one instead of using cheap harddrive space. Sure I'd like one, but the cost would be huge for the card itself, and the real peformance would probably end up not being worth it.

Myne_h · 29th March 2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper

That's what SLI on a single card is for then.

Sadly that is unlikely to work. SLI-on-a-card is electrically identical to normal SLI. It's pyhsically different yes, but the wires dont care what it looks like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by /\ngus

Can you imagine the performance hit of running a "RAM card" over a PCI or PCI-E 1X bus though?

Well, considering the average HDD is capable of maybe 70MB/s sustained half duplex, and in raid it might reach as high as 200MB/s if you were seriously hardcore, even a 1x slot's 300MB/s full duplex (300MB/s in and 300MB/s out) makes that seem like a bad joke. The card I've sketched Should be capable of functioning correctly in a 1x or a 4x slot. In a 4x slot, due to its missing lane, it'd *only* be capable of 900MB/s each way. For pure swap space, that's more than acceptable and should, if the OS's caching is any good, come close to being totally indistinguishable from actually having that much extra ram.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie-revhead

I was thinking along those lines myself , I read on another thread that a guy used a seperate hard drive for page file use only , but since page files are only 1-2 GB it seems a waste to use a whole hard drive , and not only would an extra 1-2 Gb of dedicated ram take up less space but its also much faster . Is this kind of thing on its way , or are we dreaming ?

Well for the most part I am dreaming. Though I have heard of some servers using addin cards for ram so it's not a totally forgotten product. It's possible such a cars would be made if there's percieved demand for it. I for one would much prefer 1gb of 400ddr and 2gb of 2100 on a card to forking out for 3gb of 400. It's a best of both worlds thing. You get your highspeed ram and an ultra fast swap.

Here's a very rough sketch I've done as a selling point. If anyone knows anyone that's capable of designing, or is in the business of mobo/ram, please, by all means, forward it.

Reaper · 29th March 2005, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myne_h

Sadly that is unlikely to work. SLI-on-a-card is electrically identical to normal SLI. It's pyhsically different yes, but the wires dont care what it looks like.

I don't know if I'm following you correctly or not, but are you saying SLI on a single card does not work? Because they've got it working.

Myne_h · 29th March 2005, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper

I don't know if I'm following you correctly or not, but are you saying SLI on a single card does not work? Because they've got it working.

No, I'm saying that SLI is a PHYSICAL re-routing of the wires. Instead of 8 PCI-E lanes heading to slot1, they're redirected to slot2. This electrically makes 2 8x slots. Single card SLI uses all 16 lanes, 8per core.
Electrically 2 card SLI and single card SLI are identical, even down to the bridging chip.

Here's a dissection I just did of the Dual6800.

eva2000 · 29th March 2005, 1:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psynapse

Yup, all newer shipments of GeIL Ultra-X 3200 are using UTT/BH-5 chips

that would probably explain the $100 drop in price on Geil Ultra-X

Reaper · 29th March 2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myne_h

No, I'm saying that SLI is a PHYSICAL re-routing of the wires. Instead of 8 PCI-E lanes heading to slot1, they're redirected to slot2. This electrically makes 2 8x slots. Single card SLI uses all 16 lanes, 8per core.
Electrically 2 card SLI and single card SLI are identical, even down to the bridging chip.

Here's a dissection I just did of the Dual6800.
http://users.on.net/jvizard/myne/dual6800uasus5ru.jpg

Ok, so you're saying that it wouldn't matter because either way the 2nd x16 slot is used anyway? I thought the whole point of single card was to just use the one slot and be able to plug in a 4x card into the other x16 slot.

Nighthawkster · 29th March 2005, 11:15 AM

a Corsair 1GB TwinX C2PRO [2x512] are $249 very nice

Myne_h · 29th March 2005, 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper

Ok, so you're saying that it wouldn't matter because either way the 2nd x16 slot is used anyway? I thought the whole point of single card was to just use the one slot and be able to plug in a 4x card into the other x16 slot.

heh I thought it was to make it possible to use SLI on boards with only 1 slot or to reduce costs of SLI.
It is possible that the other slot will work as 4x, though it means the main slot will be limited to 12x. PCI-E is very flexible and cool so this shit is quite possible.

PCI-E bus = 20 port 10/100 switch.
Cards = servers with one or more network cards.
Lanes = cat5 cable. You can run 1 or more cables to each server in a trunk.
This is awesome.

Anyway, Ram is cheap!
Someone make me a ram card!
Now!
Chop chop!
me luv yoo wong time!

xtortion · 29th March 2005, 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthawkster

a Corsair 1GB TwinX C2PRO [2x512] are $249 very nice

wHERE?

tHANKS

ArcTan · 29th March 2005, 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

that would probably explain the $100 drop in price on Geil Ultra-X

maybe BH-5 prices will be dropping since you can get them for 350odd new now with geil ultra-x
hopefully corsair and ocz ram will drop as well

Nighthawkster · 29th March 2005, 5:28 PM

www.austin-computers.com.au its a normal shop

OCIT · 29th March 2005, 5:31 PM

and F*&KING expensive to go with that as well.

kingyubbo · 29th March 2005, 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie7

good luck finding 1gb for $90

cheapest I've seen Geil value 2 x 512 (1gb) is $182 www.umart.net (25-03-05) which is good concidering it was around $225+ about 5 weeks ago

Just hope it stays this cheap for another few weeks

Pluscorp dude. I laugh in your face now

OCIT · 29th March 2005, 8:49 PM

huh?

Pluscorp Geil ram is $90 for 512Mb, not 1GB?

bigred · 29th March 2005, 9:32 PM

I just got a stick of the 1GB ram, for $140 from msy

It's not fantastic low latency.. etc but yeah its hynix chipped.

At the moment I'm running it another piece of 512, so yeah its running ok.

xtortion · 29th March 2005, 9:51 PM

Got a stick of 1gb for $140 at MSY today.

aussie7 · 29th March 2005, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingyubbo

Pluscorp dude. I laugh in your face now

Like OCIT said it's $90 for 1 x 512mb

and I just logged in as OCAU overclocker and it's $195 for 2 x 512mb (1gb kit) Geil

So kingyubbo please provide proof of your $90 for 2 x 512mb and I'll gladly eat my hat

chainbolt · 30th March 2005, 9:14 AM

Obviously there is a worldwide oversupply of RAM.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/...329100253.html

eva2000 · 30th March 2005, 1:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcTan

maybe BH-5 prices will be dropping since you can get them for 350odd new now with geil ultra-x
hopefully corsair and ocz ram will drop as well

new BH-5 not same as old BH-5 in terms of overall perfomance

Winbond UTT CH-5 in GoldVX/Twinmos SP PC3200 and old BH-5 on par nearly

while new BH-5 is behind them both

ArcTan · 30th March 2005, 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

new BH-5 not same as old BH-5 in terms of overall perfomance

Winbond UTT CH-5 in GoldVX/Twinmos SP PC3200 and old BH-5 on par nearly

while new BH-5 is behind them both

do we have enough samples yet to say this? Looks like I might be picking up a 2 x 256mb pair of new BH-5 to see how it goes

eva2000 · 30th March 2005, 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcTan

do we have enough samples yet to say this? Looks like I might be picking up a 2 x 256mb pair of new BH-5 to see how it goes

well statement true for UTT CH-5 versus old BH-5 not sure about new BH-5 you'd have to find out for us and also check your pms at i4memory.com

chainbolt · 31st March 2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

new BH-5 not same as old BH-5 in terms of overall perfomance

Winbond UTT CH-5 in GoldVX/Twinmos SP PC3200 and old BH-5 on par nearly

while new BH-5 is behind them both

absolutely true, there are other companies like SanMax that are also selling BH-5 - bad stuff, quite a big disappointment. Its rumored that OCZ sits on a heap of original BH-5 chips.

choppa · 31st March 2005, 7:28 PM

Well this is fucked up. I bought the 1GB'ers at $290 each

Bloody hell.
I went into MSY and they said stock won't hold for too long, so I say: STOCK UP PEOPLE. I'm personally going to go in there and buy up 50x 1GB sticks tomorrow, before it skyrockets due to the drop in DDR1 production.

Also, anyone who remembers the final SD-RAM days will remember the 512mb PC133's went from 110$/piece to $250/piece in a week - just when they finalised the move (in manufacturing) to DDR from SDR.

Anyone who is interstate & can't get to MSY, PM me. If there's enough interest, I might organise a group buy.

eva2000 · 31st March 2005, 7:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choppa

Well this is fucked up. I bought the 1GB'ers at $290 each

Bloody hell.
I went into MSY and they said stock won't hold for too long, so I say: STOCK UP PEOPLE. I'm personally going to go in there and buy up 50x 1GB sticks tomorrow, before it skyrockets due to the drop in DDR1 production.

50 pieces

woah now that's a collection

which 1GB sticks you talking about ? speed/timings ?

choppa · 31st March 2005, 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

50 pieces

woah now that's a collection

which 1GB sticks you talking about ? speed/timings ?

Yeah, my saved money for the past 3 years as a Uni student has had absolutely pittance of returns/interest from Commbank. So I'll dump it all and I should be able to afford ~30 sticks. 50 was an exaggeration. But the way I see it, it'll sky rocket & there'll be a shortage soon, so I can resell it on eBay in a few months and hopefully make my money back + more interest than Commbank has given me in 3 yrs.

The 1GB sticks are the Hynix-chipped sticks, branded 'Hyundai' on the MSY price list - which aren't actually Hyundai's... but anyway, they do have Hynix chips on them. On the standard settings, they run @ 200 3-8-3-3... but you can push them to 2.5-6-3-2 if you're game. I don't OC much, but that's all I'm willing to push it to (well, all I've experimented with so far). OCing doesn't help my internet browsing anyway

/\ngus · 31st March 2005, 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choppa

But the way I see it, it'll sky rocket & there'll be a shortage soon

The X-bit labs article back on page 2 quotes JP Morgan as saying that supply won't ease until the 4th quarter. I'm more inclined to believe JPM than MSY

eva2000 · 31st March 2005, 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choppa

Yeah, my saved money for the past 3 years as a Uni student has had absolutely pittance of returns/interest from Commbank. So I'll dump it all and I should be able to afford ~30 sticks. 50 was an exaggeration. But the way I see it, it'll sky rocket & there'll be a shortage soon, so I can resell it on eBay in a few months and hopefully make my money back + more interest than Commbank has given me in 3 yrs.

The 1GB sticks are the Hynix-chipped sticks, branded 'Hyundai' on the MSY price list - which aren't actually Hyundai's... but anyway, they do have Hynix chips on them. On the standard settings, they run @ 200 3-8-3-3... but you can push them to 2.5-6-3-2 if you're game. I don't OC much, but that's all I'm willing to push it to (well, all I've experimented with so far). OCing doesn't help my internet browsing anyway

Ah they sound like my 2X 1GB OCZ PC3200 Performance kit 200mhz 3-3-3-8 stock but do 239mhz 3-3-3-8 at 2.8v

Reaper · 31st March 2005, 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myne_h

heh I thought it was to make it possible to use SLI on boards with only 1 slot or to reduce costs of SLI.
It is possible that the other slot will work as 4x, though it means the main slot will be limited to 12x. PCI-E is very flexible and cool so this shit is quite possible.

I don't understand your math.

12+4 != 20

16+4 = 20

Anyways, Does anyone know of the cheapest place to get kingmax tiny BGA from? That RAM is looking good to me right now.

And it's got to be a place everyone in the country can get it from. No pickup only places, you all know the one I mean. That is unless someone is willing to pickup and resend to others.

If it's going to be cheap for a while now, maybe a cheap source thread would be good.

Quote:

Yeah, my saved money for the past 3 years as a Uni student has had absolutely pittance of returns/interest from Commbank. So I'll dump it all and I should be able to afford ~30 sticks. 50 was an exaggeration. But the way I see it, it'll sky rocket & there'll be a shortage soon, so I can resell it on eBay in a few months and hopefully make my money back + more interest than Commbank has given me in 3 yrs.

Just do it now. As I mentioned earlier, people are paying above retail for RAM on ebay still.

autumn21 · 31st March 2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choppa

Well this is fucked up. I bought the 1GB'ers at $290 each

Bloody hell.
I went into MSY and they said stock won't hold for too long, so I say: STOCK UP PEOPLE. I'm personally going to go in there and buy up 50x 1GB sticks tomorrow, before it skyrockets due to the drop in DDR1 production.

Also, anyone who remembers the final SD-RAM days will remember the 512mb PC133's went from 110$/piece to $250/piece in a week - just when they finalised the move (in manufacturing) to DDR from SDR.

Anyone who is interstate & can't get to MSY, PM me. If there's enough interest, I might organise a group buy.

a strong move! hope it works out as you planned then you will double your assets

commando · 31st March 2005, 11:26 PM

Yes, good luck choppa

I should buy some RAM as well; just in case it goes up and I need some in the future

Myne_h · 31st March 2005, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper

I don't understand your math.

12+4 != 20

16+4 = 20

heh yeah well I was probably jumping the gun and assuming that they wouldnt want to totally disable all the 1x slots. Since 8x seems to be enough for a card anyhow, 12x (2x 6x) shouldnt take too much of a hit. Ofcourse this is all very wild speculation and totally off topic, but nonetheless that's how I arrived at 12x.

nai · 1st April 2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

I remember paying 150 perstick of pc100 64mb... wow..

And I remember paying nearly $500 for each sticks of PC100 128MB ( 4 in total for a web hosting server )

Dan!el · 1st April 2005, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

Ah they sound like my 2X 1GB OCZ PC3200 Performance kit 200mhz 3-3-3-8 stock but do 239mhz 3-3-3-8 at 2.8v

They're a Hynix D43 Chips. I'm running them at 210mhz 2.5-3-3-7 2.7v. Having some problems with my DFI (mem dividers not booting through bios) but I'm working on it (different BIOS). But yeah, they're good chips.

eva2000 · 1st April 2005, 3:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ð a n i e |

They're a Hynix D43 Chips. I'm running them at 210mhz 2.5-3-3-7 2.7v. Having some problems with my DFI (mem dividers not booting through bios) but I'm working on it (different BIOS). But yeah, they're good chips.

i think mine are actually samsung chips but can't remember since it's been so long heh

Reaper · 1st April 2005, 8:01 PM

Just noticed that umart has come down in price again, $59 for 512 generic, I think local is good now.

/\ngus · 1st April 2005, 8:13 PM

Only Umart Queensland unfortunately, still $69 at umart.net

Reaper · 1st April 2005, 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /\ngus

Only Umart Queensland unfortunately, still $69 at umart.net

I didn't even know they had a .net site.

Anyways, I'd like to see what the price on the tiny bga kingmax will be once they get some more in too.

But it still wouldn't hurt to get a couple of sticks of generic 512.

/\ngus · 1st April 2005, 8:22 PM

.net is the NSW store (they now have separate domains and sites).

Zzapped · 1st April 2005, 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper

Just noticed that umart has come down in price again, $59 for 512 generic, I think local is good now.

PLE have been selling generic 512's for $63 for a while now

OCIT · 2nd April 2005, 11:26 PM

Come on, does anyone know a mailorder company that has the 1GB sticks in the range of MSY???

around the $140-160 range? just need them to do delivery is all.

Dan!el · 3rd April 2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCIT

Come on, does anyone know a mailorder company that has the 1GB sticks in the range of MSY???

around the $140-160 range? just need them to do delivery is all.

http://www.cworld.com.au/

$146 a stick. Give them a go.

Akimbo · 3rd April 2005, 8:46 PM

Techbuy have listed Corsair TwinX2048 kit for $475 bux.

Think i'll be grabbing this, for i am running out of ram all the time with my system setup, unfortunately not sure how much they'll OC, but thats not all that important, coz running out of ram can make the PC run at the speed of a 486....

terrabyte · 3rd April 2005, 8:50 PM

What are you doing to run out of 1gb of ram?

OCIT · 3rd April 2005, 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrabyte

What are you doing to run out of 1gb of ram?

PS ang editing/video etc

Some things require high amounts of ram.

eva2000 · 3rd April 2005, 8:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrabyte

What are you doing to run out of 1gb of ram?

easy to run out in some apps i.e. with 2GB of ram i accidently set the page file allocation in photoshop very high and got out of memory error popups hehe

leyton01 · 3rd April 2005, 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akimbo

Techbuy have listed Corsair TwinX2048 kit for $475 bux.

Good if you want to spend $50 more than you have to...
http://pricepoint.com.au/shop/produc...oducts_id=1510

Check out our thread in the Sponsors forum for $5 shipping.

Akimbo · 3rd April 2005, 9:21 PM

well, when you have all the bells and whistles of a windows desktop, dual monitors at high res, 80 processes, video capturing, encoding dvd's, picture databases, gfx editing, also games everynow and then, TSR programs, P2P client, allsorts of stuff, the list goes on.
All at the same time, coz HT can handle multi-tasking no sweat, just memory usage just gets hammered as more and more programs are launched.

Akimbo · 3rd April 2005, 9:22 PM

nice, $425 for 2GB even better.....

Varuna · 3rd April 2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akimbo

well, when you have all the bells and whistles of a windows desktop, dual monitors at high res, 80 processes, video capturing, encoding dvd's, picture databases, gfx editing, also games everynow and then, TSR programs, P2P client, allsorts of stuff, the list goes on.

And you are running all of the above, on 6 seperate virtual machines.

aussie7 · 6th April 2005, 3:36 AM

hows this for cheap

Corsair 512MB XMS-3200C2 DDR RAM, CAS2 $69.30

http://www.megapc.com.au/product_det...00ee299af877e0

It's cheaper than there corsair value select 3200 512mb $71.50
http://www.megapc.com.au/product_det...part_indx=2906

reanimator · 6th April 2005, 6:48 AM

damn that is pretty cheap, i just ordered a dual channel set of 1gb Geil Ram, at $165 price matched from pluscorp...cant go wrong there

/\ngus · 6th April 2005, 2:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie7

hows this for cheap

Corsair 512MB XMS-3200C2 DDR RAM, CAS2 $69.30

http://www.megapc.com.au/product_det...00ee299af877e0

Now AU$127.60. Looks like they just made a mistake

azzachaz · 6th April 2005, 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie7

It's cheaper than there corsair value select 3200 512mb $71.50
http://www.megapc.com.au/product_det...part_indx=2906

link goes to 256MB stick

aussie7 · 6th April 2005, 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /\ngus

Now AU$127.60. Looks like they just made a mistake

damn

Quote:

Originally Posted by azzachaz

link goes to 256MB stick

Sorry about that, there prices are high anyway so don't bother

Here's some I just found on the news group aus.ads.forsale.computers.new
http://www.netplus.com.au

Only valid until end of Thursday... May change without notice... Limited
Quantities...

256 DDR 400 Legend $29
512 DDR 400 Legend $49

/\ngus · 6th April 2005, 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azzachaz

link goes to 256MB stick

Not for me it doesn't. "Corsair 512MB XMS-3200C2 DDR RAM, CAS2"

stergiopilus · 6th April 2005, 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie7

hows this for cheap

Corsair 512MB XMS-3200C2 DDR RAM, CAS2 $69.30

http://www.megapc.com.au/product_det...00ee299af877e0

It's cheaper than there corsair value select 3200 512mb $71.50
http://www.megapc.com.au/product_det...part_indx=2906

I ordered a couple of those yesterday already, paid and got an e-mail today saying that it was a mistake (and they will refund me the money) Oh well, worth a try.

busky2k · 6th April 2005, 5:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzapped

PLE have been selling generic 512's for $63 for a while now

Seems they've gone down to $50 now?

http://www.ple.com.au/components.php...8ec49085016812

KRAGGAH · 6th April 2005, 6:52 PM

whats the cheapest 2x512 generic ram u can get atm from a reputable online store?

looking to buy aSAP

cheers

23rd March 2005, 8:16 PM	#1
Kelvin Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,899	Large fall in Ram Prices?? Is there any reason why generic 512mg DDR400 sticks are now $55 each and hynix 1gig DDR sticks are $140 each ????? This is the cheapest... I have ever seen memory prices at... ever... Edit .. the prices are from MSY... Last edited by Kelvin; 23rd March 2005 at 8:44 PM.

23rd March 2005, 8:32 PM	#2
TaroT Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hazelbrook nsw 2779 Posts: 6,516	where is it 55 might grab a few more my guess is an over abundance of the stuff and the dollar. __________________ AMD 8350FX @4.6 no turbo:corsair H100 cooler: Gigabyte 990FXUD5P: 16 gig GSKILL 2133@2133 9 10 10 27: Gigabyte 7950 3Gb 1050/1300:

23rd March 2005, 9:03 PM	#4
eva2000 DDR1/DDR2/DDR3 Addict Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 21,887	yeah memory and even flash memory prices have fallen probably due to fall in US dollar against Australian dollar i.e. http://www.powerinnumbers.com.au/ has a huge discount sale on flash memory picked up a few things myself hehe __________________ * Questions about memory? No PMs Ask on forums * i7 980X Club @4844mhz H20 * Asus P6T6 WS Revo - W3540 @4821 H20 \| W3570 @4997Mhz H20 \| DFI UT X58-T3EH8 USB3.0

23rd March 2005, 11:30 PM	#8
watsrags Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At home with the missus Posts: 449	I just got GEIL High Performance 512MB PC3200 DDR (400Mhz) SDRAM for $92 from Pluscorp after watching the price sit in the mid $120 for many weeks am very happy __________________ Proud to be a small part of the grumpyoldmen Folding@Home 600K Club

24th March 2005, 4:14 AM	#9
Akimbo Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Perth W.A. Posts: 1,567	there was a pre-warning at TCM site about 1 month ago, about RAM prices dropping, and good for that ay....its actually starting, hope that the XMS4400c25 is lower, best default DDR550 out so far. __________________ LianLi PC-A71B, Samsung 305T Plus, 2x 2443BW+, Bravia 46" LCD, Asrock Extreme9, i7 3930K @4.0Ghz, H100i 2xFans, 32GB Corsair PC1866, 2-Way SLi EVGA 4GB GTX680, GT630, 3x SSD's, 10 HD's = 16TB (PC 503=1.2TB), Core3D, Logitech Z906 5.1, Sennheiser PC350, CyberPower 2200ELCD, AX1200i, Logitech G19, G700, F710, Epson Workforce 840, Netgear D6300, Acer Aspire 4741G, iPad III, i4S. Last edited by Akimbo; 24th March 2005 at 4:15 AM.

23rd March 2005, 8:52 PM	#3
fo3 (Taking a Break) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 2,972	Thanks for the head up, ram has dropped big time and I didn't know it. The cheapest I can find in perth is a PLE: generic 512MB sticks $62, kingmax super ram $85 or netplus: generic $62, hyundai hynix $88. None of them are listing cheap 1gb sticks though

24th March 2005, 9:15 AM	#10
Romen Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ashford, SA Posts: 2,560	And it appears Winbond BH5 is back in production.... __________________ Aussie Asheron's Call: Throne of Destiny: Leafcull Server. Seral - Level 109 Tank Archer Jedi's Chemist - Level 162 Tinker Mule (sigh lol) OCAU Weight Training Club Member #27 Successful Trades:Spizz, metamorphoise, PhuckNut, Cobalt28, becker83, PÿRÓ, Manaz, orbisfactor, RiKo, $tealthfiga, pete_pumpkin, chunksoul, Danske, tan50, packratbob1982, linton, PipeBom, theyetti, Spizz, Cryogenic, Insalubrious, gotbean, guwarkjay888, bandwagon_rider, jtsmorris + more (PM me if ive delt with ya)

24th March 2005, 9:20 AM	#11
commando Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Bankstown, Sydney Posts: 4,577	Wow, 55 dollars I think im gonna have to pick up a few of these sticks; thanks for the headsup __________________ Intel i5 750 @ 3.8GHz \| Gigabyte GIGABYTE P55 UD4P \| 4GB G.Skill 1600Mhz \| Xigmatek Dark Knight \| Sparkle GTX 260 Click Here To Add Me To Your ICQ List My Avatar Folding@Home 25000 Points Milestone

24th March 2005, 9:23 AM	#12
z2177199 Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,993	Is Hynix RAM any good? __________________ F@H3 - 14/06/2002

24th March 2005, 9:01 PM	#14
GreenBeret Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 16,885	Yeah, the drop is pretty drastic. At MSY, the Hyundai 1GB was $290 just a few days ago. Now it's $140! __________________ Doctore: Crixus! What is beneath your feet? Crixus: Sacred ground, Doctore. Watered with tears and blood.

24th March 2005, 9:34 PM	#16
ArcTan Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 4,699	are there other places with drops of memory that big? looking at some vendors it looks like prices have only dropped about $10 within the last few weeks __________________ www.sir3n.com SIR3N Relaunch Party > JADE @ Space Nightclub - FRIDAY.31.AUG Intel Core2Duo E6750\| Gigashat GA-P35-S3 \| 2 x 1GB Crucial Ballistix 10th Anniversary Edition\| 2 x 512MB Micron D9GCT \| 320MB GeForce 8800GTS

24th March 2005, 9:54 PM	#17
xtortion Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bankstown Sydney Posts: 3,914	STOCK UP PEOPLE __________________ Got Adobo?

24th March 2005, 11:26 PM	#18
autumn21 Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Canberra Posts: 377	$55 is really very cheap!!

25th March 2005, 7:30 PM	#19
jwira Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 313	Arrrgh, I just bought a hynix 512MB for 85 last week. Now it only costs 65, I want my refund __________________ I know what you meant if you were thinking what I was thinking.

26th March 2005, 11:41 AM	#21
dinos22 Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 11,434	it wouldn't be currency as it's been steady at current rates for last couple of months.....most likely oversupply in spot market.....dumping ddr1 sticks.....stock up i'd say boys __________________ dinos22 - Team.AU GIGABYTE Australia Need a GIGABYTE bios or support? OCAU HWBOT TEAM Z77 Competition - Sponsored by GIGABYTE!

28th March 2005, 3:27 AM	#22
aussie-revhead Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Western Sydney Posts: 13,689	My question is : With stock ram being so cheap , would you get a bigger kick from buying 2 GB of stock ram and overclocking to what it can , or buy 1 GB of top line ram for higher overclock ? I could have bought 2 GB of GeIL 3200 for what I just spent on 2 x 512 OCZ EL . Its got me wondering .

28th March 2005, 9:50 AM	#23
Pazu Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,515	hmm.. TCCDs still cost a bit. lol. Perhaps it's time for me to get some DDR550 (although my top capable speed is most likely nowhere near that speed) lol. __________________ Opteron 170 CCBBE 0617FPMW, 2.8ghz, 1.36v. Athlon64 3200+ CBBHD 0445VPMW @ 2.4ghz, 1.4v traders: PlanetSide, vividbeatz, ridewitme, FarQ, Coney, t3zza, freaky_beeky, test123, fad, syxx, mecka

28th March 2005, 9:57 AM	#24
zeltra Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,305	great news, I've been waiting for a time like this to add another 512 to my system __________________ I'm not normally a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman !

28th March 2005, 4:50 PM	#26
OCIT Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wantirna, Melbourne Posts: 315	Can someone explain, that, why, our prices have DROPPED in comparison, with an excuse of the aus vs US dollar, BUT US prices have gone sky high? Crucial memory. They had 1GB Ballistix sticks, i've bought from $129US, then $149, $169 and they are now $288!!!! WTF is with that, when our prices are so low? Also, any retailers that will deliver that are selling those Hynix Hyundai 1GB sticks for around $140-160 __________________ SYSTEM: Shuttle SB81p \| P4E 3.0 @ 3.55 \| 1GB Hynix D43 @ 236FSB 2.5/3/3/8 \| Leadtek 6600GT @ 591/1290 \| 2 x Seagate 200GB Sata \| LG 4163B 16x DVD-RW \| ---- 3D MARK 2003: 9791 ---- INTERNET: Optus Cable - 12GB P / 24GB OP 10MB/128K

28th March 2005, 10:37 PM	#31
Swisshut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth, WA Posts: 590	Exactly where is the cheapest ram? I tried to check out MSY but their font size is too small to read!! Edit: Oops, didnt have acrobat installed. 512mb DDR400 Ram 3200 $62 from PLE. Then again... DDR2 533MHZ 512MB $109. Whats the performance diff here? Last edited by Swisshut; 29th March 2005 at 4:09 PM.

28th March 2005, 11:20 PM	#33
Myne_h Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,551	Now that PCI-E is on all new mobo's and has assloads of bandwith, it's time for ram cards. A simple 4 or 8x card with say 4-8 DDR slots on it that masquerades as a mass storage device. Why? Well realistically we dont need 3gb of ultra highspeed UberSoopaMegaTwinAlienWarp ram. A single gig of good shit and a couple of slower generic stuff would be perfect. Allow the OS to use it as a swap drive and your box can be overclocked, and not hideously expensive. Ofcourse, it means you cant go SLI with your dual 16x mobo, but who gives a rats I cant wait.

29th March 2005, 12:22 AM	#39
aussie-revhead Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Western Sydney Posts: 13,689	I was thinking along those lines myself , I read on another thread that a guy used a seperate hard drive for page file use only , but since page files are only 1-2 GB it seems a waste to use a whole hard drive , and not only would an extra 1-2 Gb of dedicated ram take up less space but its also much faster . Is this kind of thing on its way , or are we dreaming ? P.S. Eddie at Fluidtek has generic DDR for $55 / 512 MB , though anything other than pick-up can be a hassle . Custo's prices are probably about the same . Try staticice . Last edited by aussie-revhead; 29th March 2005 at 12:24 AM.

29th March 2005, 12:27 AM	#41
bigred Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 178	Yeah i'll pick up 2GB's for sure.. so very cheap. I remember paying 150 perstick of pc100 64mb... wow.. __________________ when only the best will do. A64 Venice @ 2.7 GHZ 2GB Ram macbook pro C2D 2.16 2GB Ram www.completetech.com.au

29th March 2005, 12:29 AM	#42
/\ngus Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 158	Can you imagine the performance hit of running a "RAM card" over a PCI or PCI-E 1X bus though? Last edited by /\ngus; 29th March 2005 at 12:29 AM.
$/\ngus is offline$

29th March 2005, 11:15 AM	#49
Nighthawkster Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56	a Corsair 1GB TwinX C2PRO [2x512] are $249 very nice

29th March 2005, 5:28 PM	#53
Nighthawkster Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56	www.austin-computers.com.au its a normal shop

29th March 2005, 5:31 PM	#54
OCIT Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wantirna, Melbourne Posts: 315	and F&KING expensive to go with that as well. __________________ SYSTEM:* Shuttle SB81p \| P4E 3.0 @ 3.55 \| 1GB Hynix D43 @ 236FSB 2.5/3/3/8 \| Leadtek 6600GT @ 591/1290 \| 2 x Seagate 200GB Sata \| LG 4163B 16x DVD-RW \| ---- 3D MARK 2003: 9791 ---- INTERNET: Optus Cable - 12GB P / 24GB OP 10MB/128K

29th March 2005, 8:49 PM	#56
OCIT Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wantirna, Melbourne Posts: 315	huh? Pluscorp Geil ram is $90 for 512Mb, not 1GB? __________________ SYSTEM: Shuttle SB81p \| P4E 3.0 @ 3.55 \| 1GB Hynix D43 @ 236FSB 2.5/3/3/8 \| Leadtek 6600GT @ 591/1290 \| 2 x Seagate 200GB Sata \| LG 4163B 16x DVD-RW \| ---- 3D MARK 2003: 9791 ---- INTERNET: Optus Cable - 12GB P / 24GB OP 10MB/128K

29th March 2005, 9:32 PM	#57
bigred Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 178	I just got a stick of the 1GB ram, for $140 from msy It's not fantastic low latency.. etc but yeah its hynix chipped. At the moment I'm running it another piece of 512, so yeah its running ok. __________________ when only the best will do. A64 Venice @ 2.7 GHZ 2GB Ram macbook pro C2D 2.16 2GB Ram www.completetech.com.au

29th March 2005, 9:51 PM	#58
xtortion Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bankstown Sydney Posts: 3,914	Got a stick of 1gb for $140 at MSY today. __________________ Got Adobo?

30th March 2005, 9:14 AM	#60
chainbolt Little member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Tokyo Posts: 76,406	Obviously there is a worldwide oversupply of RAM. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/...329100253.html

31st March 2005, 7:28 PM	#65
choppa Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Asia-Pacific Posts: 2,092	Well this is fucked up. I bought the 1GB'ers at $290 each Bloody hell. I went into MSY and they said stock won't hold for too long, so I say: STOCK UP PEOPLE. I'm personally going to go in there and buy up 50x 1GB sticks tomorrow, before it skyrockets due to the drop in DDR1 production. Also, anyone who remembers the final SD-RAM days will remember the 512mb PC133's went from 110$/piece to $250/piece in a week - just when they finalised the move (in manufacturing) to DDR from SDR. Anyone who is interstate & can't get to MSY, PM me. If there's enough interest, I might organise a group buy.

31st March 2005, 11:26 PM	#72
commando Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Bankstown, Sydney Posts: 4,577	Yes, good luck choppa I should buy some RAM as well; just in case it goes up and I need some in the future __________________ Intel i5 750 @ 3.8GHz \| Gigabyte GIGABYTE P55 UD4P \| 4GB G.Skill 1600Mhz \| Xigmatek Dark Knight \| Sparkle GTX 260 Click Here To Add Me To Your ICQ List My Avatar Folding@Home 25000 Points Milestone

1st April 2005, 8:01 PM	#77
Reaper Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia Posts: 9,101	Just noticed that umart has come down in price again, $59 for 512 generic, I think local is good now. __________________ Code: ------ ------------------- / __ \ \|This space for rent\| _____\|__\|\|__\|_____ ---\|\|---------\|\|---

1st April 2005, 8:13 PM	#78
/\ngus Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 158	Only Umart Queensland unfortunately, still $69 at umart.net
$/\ngus is offline$