PC2700 RAM

[chainbolt]

Regarding PC2700: Whatevere PC 2700 you have bought now, or what you can buy now buy NOW, it is most probably a waste of money: because until now there is NEITHER standarized NOR validated PC2700. And the many reports about bad performing/disappointing performance with the currently sold PC2700 confirm this. I'm myself a victim of this.

Fact is:

(a) JEDEC has not yet released a standard for PC2700 with 2x166MHz. It's strange that it takes so long, because the first "PC2700" popped up in autumn 2001.

(b) More important: VIA has not yet validated ANY PC2700 RAM for the KT333 chipset. In their KT3333 brief they say that any "PC2700" RAM produced before March 2002 will probably not meet their validation criteria. Even "PC2700" RAM which is now sold was probably produced in January and is not meeting their upcoming validation criteria.

This is clearly the reason why Curcial/Micron are not selling any "PC700" labled RAM until now. As usual somd companies like Kingston/Corsair etc are trying to chash in on "innocent" customers.

Conclusion: Buy quality PC2100 (it will works almost as good as PC2700 on a KT266 or even KT333 chipset board) or wait a couple of weeks until standarized/validated PC2700 RAM is available. Possibly Crucial/Micron will be the first to sell it.

[Acid]

Thanks for the headsup Chainy.

although I do believe that the only current platform that would benefit from PC2700 is the P4, for obvious reasons.

[amdking]

the kingmax DDR PC2700 is the closest to real 2700 you will buy right now.
Because its the only running chips that are rated at 5ns. They arent just tested for 2700 like most chips. But are actually made for that.
Even though, true its not official. I believe the kingmax is the closest you will get to PC2700 and I know their stuff rocks, considering its TINYBGA.
Very NICE memory.

[Mal]

Originally posted by chainbolt
Regarding PC2700: Whatevere PC 2700 you have bought now, or what you can buy now buy NOW, it is most probably a waste of money: because until now there is NEITHER standarized NOR validated PC2700. And the many reports about bad performing/disappointing performance with the currently sold PC2700 confirm this. I'm myself a victim of this.

Fact is:

(a) JEDEC has not yet released a standard for PC2700 with 2x166MHz. It's strange that it takes so long, because the first "PC2700" popped up in autumn 2001.

(b) More important: VIA has not yet validated ANY PC2700 RAM for the KT333 chipset. In their KT3333 brief they say that any "PC2700" RAM produced before March 2002 will probably not meet their validation criteria. Even "PC2700" RAM which is now sold was probably produced in January and is not meeting their upcoming validation criteria.

This is clearly the reason why Curcial/Micron are not selling any "PC700" labled RAM until now. As usual somd companies like Kingston/Corsair etc are trying to chash in on "innocent" customers.

Conclusion: Buy quality PC2100 (it will works almost as good as PC2700 on a KT266 or even KT333 chipset board) or wait a couple of weeks until standarized/validated PC2700 RAM is available. Possibly Crucial/Micron will be the first to sell it.

The PC2700 standrad has been a long time coming granted,
if i remember rightly you are the greatest advocate of the via266a chipset not running soundly at 150+. So are u warning people of the chipset, the Ram or both?

I would suggest you are not happy with buying some 2700 rated RAM for a chipset that does not run reliably at 166+....the sis645 chipsets seems to go quite well with 2700 rated RAM.

Then you have managed to blame the RAM manufacturer's, when in fact they have only released products based on an ever chainging Jedec standard..

Re your Corsair comments: I think Corsair are a good example of reputable Ram manufacturer releasing revisions and not labelling their product as PC2700 but rather XMS2700..seems quite clear to me...maybe its the 266a chipset that falls over ..hang on thats what u keep saying elsewhere

Mal

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by Mal


The PC2700 standrad has been a long time coming granted,
if i remember rightly you are the greatest advocate of the via266a chipset not running soundly at 150+. So are u warning people of the chipset, the Ram or both?

The KR266 chipset is specified for PC2100 and not for PC2700. I was talking about the idea to buy PC2700 now and use it for this or the KT333 chipset. I have pointed again and again (since half a year when PC 2700 popped up) that the currently sold PC2700 is not based an any standard.
http://www.overclockers.com.au/techs...winmos_pc2700/

Originally posted by Mal

I would suggest you are not happy with buying some 2700 rated RAM for a chipset that does not run reliably at 166+....the sis645 chipsets seems to go quite well with 2700 rated RAM.

My point was not what is running well with what chipset, there are also a few ppl reporting good results with current PC2700 on a KT266 board. My point was that the currently sold PC2700 does neither follow a standard NOR nor is it validated for ANY VIA chipset. Nothing against SiS ) but boards with the SiS646 are a non-show, it's really not very much relevant. A KT266A has by the way even with PC2100 better bandwidth than the SiS646, if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by Mal

Then you have managed to blame the RAM manufacturer's, when in fact they have only released products based on an ever chainging Jedec standard..

I think you misunderstand the meaning of JEDEC standards: they are NEVER changing, not a single time. The standard for PC2700
(DDR RAM running at 2x166Mhz) is not yet released, that's the point. I do blame some RAM manufacturers, yes, because they are selling very expensive RAM under a wrong/not existing lable, with timings based in their own taste. VIA is expressively warning about such memory.

Originally posted by Mal

Re your Corsair comments: I think Corsair are a good example of reputable Ram manufacturer releasing revisions and not labelling their product as PC2700 but rather XMS2700..seems quite clear to me...maybe its the 266a chipset that falls over ..hang on thats what u keep saying elsewhere
Mal

I remember, we have covered this a long time ago You can call it "clever" to name RAM as XMS2400 or XMS2700, but to name it "reputable" is a little funny. It's indeed misleading to lable a product in a way that many costumers (who are not familiar with the background) would think it follwos an approved JEDEC standard like PC 1600 or PC 2100. It's just the opposite of what I would call "reputable". You could even say they are lying to customers, if you read their press release about their XMS2700
http://www.corsairmicro.com/main/PR_xms2700.html

They are in a shrewd way indicating that their XMS2700 is PC2700: Quote "Corsair's XMS2700 modules utilize RAMs which have been carefully screened to meet the demanding requirements of the JEDEC 333 MHz proposals". That was on 7 of January. Even now such a standard does not exist. And again: VIA clealry recommends not to buy such memory for KT333 boards until the JEDEC standard is agreed upon and they have validated the modules.

Why I am making a long story here? I just want to warn ppl who are considering now to get whatever PC2700 is on the market, you spend big for this expensive RAM and gain nothing, you are not even getting validated RAM for your mobo.

[Andypoo]

So you're saying that RAM manufacturers should ignore proposals and start implementing things only when the final standard documents are released?

Wow, we should see HTML 4.0 in a couple of decades at that rate.

I think you have cleverly skipped over the fact that these are JEDEC proposals leading towards a solution.

Corsair are not misleading customers into purchasing RAM that they rate at 333MHz. They test the RAM very specifically to see it runs at 333MHz and release it as XMS2700 (not PC2700, they make this very clear).

Even so, the JEDEC proposals are unlikely to be thrown out the window and replaced by a new completely different standard of memory which will require octagonally shaped chips that smell like strawberry. There will be no significant changes between the current proposals and the final standards document, and when it happens, I suspect a lot of 333MHz RAM on the market already will instantly meet JEDEC's approval and earn the PC2700 rating.

Andrew.

BTW, you're using Internet Explorer, aren't you? Better stop now, it's not HTML compliant.

[sabretooth]

Originally posted by Chainbolt
requirements of the JEDEC 333 MHz proposals

Note that last word? Proposal. As in, it's not a standard.

Originally posted by Chainbolt
Even now such a standard does not exist.

That's correct.

Originally posted by Andypoo
Even so, the JEDEC proposals are unlikely to be thrown out the window and replaced by a new completely different standard of memory which will require octagonally shaped chips that smell like strawberry. There will be no significant changes between the current proposals and the final standards document, and when it happens, I suspect a lot of 333MHz RAM on the market already will instantly meet JEDEC's approval and earn the PC2700 rating.

I couldn't have said it better myself

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by Andypoo

Corsair are not misleading customers into purchasing RAM that they rate at 333MHz. They test the RAM very specifically to see it runs at 333MHz and release it as XMS2700 (not PC2700, they make this very clear).

Did you read my post and the linked Corsair Press release? It's misleading.

Fact is:
- there is NO PC2700
- VIA has not validated a single module for the KT333 and is NOT recommending to buy RAM which is currently sold as similar or close to PC2700.


And you are misunderstanding the specifications of the KT333: this chipset is for PC1600, PC2100 and the UPCOMING PC2700. This standard will be released soon, then VIA will validate the moduels, and until then "reputable" manufcaturers like Crucial/Micron refrain from selling mislabled PC2700. One example:
When the first DDR chispets were launched in November 2000, for all these board (ALI and AMD 760) JEDEC approved memory, validated by the chipsetmakers and board manufactures was avialable.

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by sabretooth

Note that last word? Proposal. As in, it's not a standard.


That's correct.


I couldn't have said it better myself

Sabre: they are once more playing around with words, that is what I call "misleading". And please keep in mind the disaster with their first XMS2700 lot, which was based on these infamous PC2700 CL 2.0 Nanya modules, which could not even run at 166Mhz? I think they changed this in the meantime, but a lot of ppl will never buy Corsair again.

Anway, I was not talking about Corsair specifically, there other RAM manufacturers as well selling since long "PC2700", who try to rip us off and cash in with such kind of questionable tactics.

[Mal]

Micron modules reffering to the 2700 standard

is it misleading?

[Mal]

"Corsair's XMS2700 modules utilize RAMs which have been carefully screened to meet the demanding requirements of the JEDEC 333 MHz proposals. Then, the modules are 100% tested, at 333 MHz, in a motherboard based on the SiS 645 chip set, which is capable of supporting the required high-speed memory bus."

how is this misleading? need a hand

Mal

[sabretooth]

Originally posted by chainbolt


Sabre: they are once more playing around with words, that is what I call "misleading". And please keep in mind the disaster with their first XMS2700 lot, which was based on these infamous PC2700 CL 2.0 Nanya modules, which could not even run at 166Mhz? I think they changed this in the meantime, but a lot of ppl will never buy Corsair again.

Anway, I was not talking about Corsair specifically, there other RAM manufacturers as well selling since long "PC2700", who try to rip us off and cash in with such kind of questionable tactics.

Honestly, if it was CC2700, or PC2700A or something, then I can see it as being misleading. The only thing that I'm seeing here that the PCxxxx and Corsair's XMS ratings have in common is the number! And it's hardly a random number, isn't it? 2700 divided by 8 implies 333MHz operation. PC2700 is rated at what? Corsair have tested their modules to what speed?

[chainbolt]

Corsair Press release about XMS2700. quote:

Fremont, CA, January 3, 2002: Corsair Memory, Inc., an industry leader in high density DRAM Dual In-Line Memory Modules (DIMMs) has announced that it is now offering XMS2700 333 MHz Double Data Rate (DDR) SDRAM DIMMs. These modules support a memory clock speed of 166 MHz, which yields a memory data rate of 333 MHz, or 2.7 gigabytes per second.

Corsair's XMS2700 modules utilize RAMs which have been carefully screened to meet the demanding requirements of the JEDEC 333 MHz proposals. Then, the modules are 100% tested, at 333 MHz, in a motherboard based on the SiS 645 chip set, which is capable of supporting the required high-speed memory bus.

This is the first widely available 333MHz module which we have been able to construct that will pass Corsair's extremely demanding qualification procedures", stated John Beekley, Corsair's VP of Marketing. "Bench testing shows that this is the fastest memory ever engineered by Corsair."

Corsair's initial XMS2700 offering is a 256 MByte, unbuffered, non-ECC module with integrated heat spreader. The part number is CM64SD256-2700CX2H; a photograph is shown below. This module has been extensively qualified in a 333 MHz platform, and is 100% tested at that speed.

Letting aside the fact that first/initial production lot of this RAM (with Nanya PC2700 moduls) could not even hit the advertised 166Mhz: These ppl (and others) are selling RAM, which is not based on a standard, which is not validated, and clealry NOT supported by the main chipset manufacturer (VIA). If you read this press release (in particular if you do not know as much as we know here in such place), you come to a different conlusion. IT IS MISLEADING, maybe not for us here, but for many other users. And that is exactly their intention: to cash in on ppl. who think they get validated, approved PC2700.

Why do you think Crucial/Micron are not selling anything like this?
They are making RAM. Corsair is not even a RAM manufacturer, they are byoung th stuff in Korea. For the first lot they just took the Nanya PC2700 CL 2.0 modules and plugged them on the PCB.

[Daemon]

Personally, I don't care what standard it is or isn't, or even what name it is or isn't, I just care how it runs.

I care that it runs at the speed it claims to, and with Corsair usually well beyond.

Marketing departments always do funny things with names (look at the GF4MX, it's really a GF2 on speed ) so I tend to ignore them, and look at the real figures. It's not hard to do, that's why hardware review sites are immensly popular.

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by Daemon
Personally, I don't care what standard it is or isn't, or even what name it is or isn't, I just care how it runs.

I care that it runs at the speed it claims to, and with Corsair usually well beyond.

Marketing departments always do funny things with names (look at the GF4MX, it's really a GF2 on speed ) so I tend to ignore them, and look at the real figures. It's not hard to do, that's why hardware review sites are immensly popular.

yes, that's exactly the point. What counts is performance I recommend a search in various specialized forums about Corsair XMS2700, like Icrontic or amdmb.com