Upgrade Path: Where to begin?

[Roostor]

Okay ladies and gentlemen, forgive me but I am about to give you my life story. For the past 12 months or so I have been avoiding coming to this forum in a vain attempt to prevent myself from spending MORE money on computers (suffice to say it hasn't worked - there are OTHER things to spend money on too, apparently). However with sooo many sexy games on the horizon (DNF, Max Payne, JK3 etc), I really feel it is time to update my poor old machine.

The problem is I have no idea where to begin, having been out of the loop for so long. So if anybody could fill me in on some of these questions, or even just suggest some good URL's, I would very much appreciate it....

My system as it stand at the moment is:
Abit BF6 M/Board (SLOT 1)
Celeron 333 o/c to 450 (with stock cooling - these puppies where great in their time )
192 MB RAM (128 PC133, 64 PC66)
Matrox G400 Dualhead (I love this card, and I'm gonna miss it)
Pioneer 10X DVD drive
Aureal Vortex 2 Sound Card
blah
blah blah

The way I see it, I can keep the DVD drive, the sound card, and the case. Basically I dont want to spend a lot of money, but I also want a worthwhile upgrade, so I just want some figures to budget towards. So now to the questions (finally):

1. Would it be worth keeping the m/b and simply buying a new celeron or PIII to slot in ( I would need a slotket adapter of some sort wouldn't I?)
2. If so what chip ( I have overclocking in mind - is additional cooling necessary?)
3. How much would a decent AMD m/b & CPU combo generally cost? Isn't some modding necessary for o/clocking?
4. What are all the AMD variants, in terms of price/performance? Last time I read these forums there was but the Athlon, but now there is durons and so on........ help?
5. How close is DDR RAM to becoming the industry standard? Does anybody have it? Does everybody have it? Whats the price & performance comparison between it and SDRAM?
6. Video Card. The GF3, methinks, is far to cheap ( )for my liking, so i was thinking something more like a GF2 MX. This springs to mind because I am used to the dualhead on my Matrox, and some of the MX's have a similar feature called twinview, true? How does this compare? Its a feature that is nice to have, but I am willing to do without if there is another card with a much better price/peformance ratio.....

Again, thanks in advance for any help

Roostor
Hey! You must be Roostor! I haven't bought one of you yet, but I bet you can transform into Roostalion if you found Diamond Skill Seven!

[ToranaGuy]

Well to start.....

The Bf 6 is a good mobo...i just recently purchased one. I think they can take a p3 1gig.RTFM and make sure.If this is the case, then go buy a p3 1gig and a slotkey to put it on ya mobo.

Upgrade all ya ram to pc133 spec, or better, depending on ya $$$$

Why not keep the matrox g400?? I still run a tnt2 32mb agp and a celeron 300A @ 450.Which is good enough for me, till i get some $$$ to replace it.

But that will be a LONG time, as some mongrel just ran into my Torana last night, its gonna cost me $$$$ to fix it.

There is your answer on is there other things to spend $$$ on.There is man, CARS!!!

If you really MUST have a brand new system, if i were you, i know i would be choosing a AMD system. Because of their price/performance ratio. And the fact that i just want a AMD pc, cause ive been messing with Intel cpu's for too long now

[elvis]

1) i made roughly the same decision this time last year. i kept my bh6 motherboard and whacked a celeron566 in (+ abit slocket) which hit's 876 quite nicely. it might save you a bit of money, as you dont have to get a motherboard aswell. however durons are so cheap these days that it's almost withe the extra bit of money to get the duron motherboard aswell.

2) if you do stick with the old mobo, a celeron would probably prove itself cheaper and more overclockable. i think there are still 700's around, and they can hit 1GHz quite well, from all accounts. (10.5 multiplier @ 100MHz FSB). not the performance of a duron or PIII, but easier on the wallet. (plus no new mobo needed for the intel option).

3) check online sites for up to date prices. living in qld i shop at UMart and Gamedude. they are both very cheap and reliable stores IMHO. duron 750's are sitting around the $85 mark these days, which is dirt cheap in anyone's language. getting yourself a decent motherboard (probably a kt133a chipset for bus overclockability) will set you back in the range of $200 to $300 depending. a nice board that is high on features and performance for a low cost is the EPOX 8KTA3 series. see if you can nab one for about $220ish for a bargain.

4) AMD have the duron and athlon thunderbird chips. the durons are basically the cheaper and slighlty lower performance versions of the athlons. (eg: like the celeron vs PIII of intel). however both AMD chips run at 200/266MHz internal and 100/133 external bus, as compared to the old 66MHz celerons. so both perform quite a deal better.
5) DDR ram is roughly double the price of an equivalently sized SDR chip. prices are dropping like crazy of late, so keep a close eye on them. the only problem is DDR boards cost a hell of a lot more than SDR boards, as far as "industry standard" goes, i dont think SDR will be phased out too quickly. there's still the whole OEM and low-end market to fill.

6) the GF2MX's twin view is similar to the matrox dual head, but the MX has only one ramdac, unlike the matrox cards. this means that the two different images must be at the same refresh (someone please correct me if i am wrong) which is a bummer if you have one good monitor and one older monitor. as for price/performace, the gf2mx's doa fairly good job. however the geforce2 GTS and PRO cards are starting to drop quite a bit of late aswell. it really boils down to whether you want 3d gaming performace or pretty features. if games aren't your thing, then hold on to the G400 for a little longer. you can always upgrade to later on.

[Lauhead]

this is totally unconfirmed, but your bf6 might be able to support a tualatin processor with a slocket. this will save you getting a new mobo, but you will probably need to ram for overclocking.

[entropy]

You could get a Slot 1 PIII 850, i've seen a few of those around lately, not sure of the price tho.

[Addict4]

For a budget upgrade you might want to look at ,

Abit KT7e mobo $ 190
Amd 1.2 Axia 266 fsb $248
Cooler around $50 depends on which one you get.
You might want to get some more Sdram for the price it is at the moment how can you pass it up.

Yeah so for around $400 - $ 500 you get a fairly good upgrade dude.Change the vid card in a few months when the GF2 come down in price some more,More mature driversfor these cards are readily available.

Good luck

[Flash!]

Forget the tualatins, it aint going to work on a bx chipset board. For a number of complex reasons. Best described in chris nolans thread in intel hardware.

Ok. best upgrade bang for buck. Try to hunt down a second hand celeron 600 cc0 stepping that does 1ghz. (expect to pay $100ish) alternately $139 will buy you a new 733 from umart. 100fsb is unlikely that would be 1100, but if the bf6 has some decent fsbs in the 90's (and I think it did have, then you should be able to get 1ghz). Think about a geforce2mx, much faster than your current card and about $200 for a good brand or $150 or so for dubious brand.

[catharsis]

For the record, I'm running a BF-6 with a celeron 733MHz@1050 - does it easy. The BF has FSB settings in 1MHz increments from 83 thru to 200.

One thing to watch, if you go this route: be careful with your selection of cooler. I had a bit of trouble with my thermaltake volcano2 sticking out from the slocket and hitting the ram. The default intel cooler fits fine, though.

[Shady]

If I was in your position this is what I would do:

Get a very good AMD motherboard - something that will last for a while with very good future upgradeability.

For that get an AMD Duron 800 or the like.

256MB PC-133 Ram - With RAM as cheap as it is why not go for 256 Min eh?

That's what I would do - at least then you can get an Athlon at a later stage and you most likely wouldn't have to spend money on a mobo for a long while.

With vid. card I'd go for a good GF2MX or maybe if I had enough money a GF2 Pro.

The other shit is up to you to decide

[Roostor]

Thanks a lot for the advice fellas, this is exactly what I needed to know....

But of course I gotta a coupla questions....

Originally posted by Addict4
For a budget upgrade you might want to look at ,

Abit KT7e mobo $ 190
Amd 1.2 Axia 266 fsb $248
Cooler around $50 depends on which one you get.
You might want to get some more Sdram for the price it is at the moment how can you pass it up.


Good luck

Erm what is an Axia? Is it positioned lower than the Duron in AMD's line up? Or is it a new chip (how $much ?)?

Originally posted by Flash!

alternately $139 will buy you a new 733 from umart. 100fsb is unlikely that would be 1100, but if the bf6 has some decent fsbs in the 90's (and I think it did have, then you should be able to get 1ghz).

Hmmmmmm Freaky - I was looking at exactly that chip. The database on www.overclockers.com says this has an average of around 1000Mhz (from a sample of around 65ish systems). I think this is definitely the way to go in terms of quick & painless upgrade

Originally posted by catharsis

One thing to watch, if you go this route: be careful with your selection of cooler. I had a bit of trouble with my thermaltake volcano2 sticking out from the slocket and hitting the ram. The default intel cooler fits fine, though.

K so did you manage to fix the problem? How about the cooler itself - would you recommend it ? How much does it cost?


So now the only decision to be made is between a geforce 2 GTS or MX. Any brand in particular?

Thanks again all

Roostor

[catharsis]

Originally posted by Roostor

K so did you manage to fix the problem? How about the cooler itself - would you recommend it ? How much does it cost?

The Volcano2 costs around ~$25 from most of the usual suspects. Thats cheaper than, say, a thermoengine, which could be had for around ~$30, but I'd judge the performance difference to be aproximately equal to the price difference.

I did manage to fix the problem I was having (which you may or may not end up having) due to a feature of the volcano2s design. The fan is on a separate piece of aluminium to the heatsink itself, and sort of slides and clips into the top of the heatsink. I unclipped it and slid it up about 2cms - wasn't an easy operation, though, I almost destroyed the heatsink in the process.

As far as recommendations go - it's sufficient. It's not an amazing performer, but it's also pretty quiet.

[Greystorm]

Originally posted by Roostor

So now the only decision to be made is between a geforce 2 GTS or MX. Any brand in particular?

Thanks again all

Roostor

I just picked up a Leadtek Geforce 2 Pro 64mb, for around the same price many GTS's were selling at.

I'd look at the Leadtek Pro 32mb, you can get them for around the $300 mark if you shop around. The 64mb will set you back an extra $50-70. The Pro has a 200mhz core 400mhz mem default over the GTS'es 200 core 333 mem.

[8balls]

why not just get an MX, and use the extra money to get yourself a Duron/SocketA mobo combo instead?

more bang for your buck, plus extra power too.

[gabbs19]

Axia is just the newer stepping of the athlon chips and overclock better than the older ones kind of like the cc0 celron.

[Roostor]

Thanks again for all the replies - you guys make it muuuuuuuch easier. I think I'll be going with a celeron 700 and a GF2 MX, methinks. With a slotket and a half decent fan it will cost around the $370 mark, which is a nice cheap upgrade. I think I'll wait a while before a full blown MB upgrade and so on, and this system should hopefully run DNF etc comfortably in the mean time....

Later all,

Roostor