G5 Question Buying but what about heat?

[Starstreams]

Wondering if there are any expert mac users that can maybe help me on a few questions: I'm sorry I'm kind of new to macs.

I’m looking at a G5 right now, it’s the cheapest one with the 2GHz Dual core so that I can run a recording program called Logic Pro 7 which apple bought from Emagic. (I run Logic 5.5.1 on PC at the moment)


1. Question: I have an M-Audio delta66 studio sound card for recording that works on both Mac and PC, but will it work with these newer PCI express slots in the G5’s? I think someone at Guitar center was telling me that you can send your M-Audio out to Apple and they will convert it for you free: Anyone know anything about this?

2 Question: How doses a G5 2GHz compare to an Intel Pentum 2.4GHz? Is it at least as fast? I’m concerned mostly about recording latency with this being the slower G5 of the three choices?

3. Question: And do the slower G5’s run very hot or are they much cooler then the 2.5GHz G5 CPUs?

4. Question: Can I put my own cooler and thermal paste on a G5 like I do on PC’s or is that kind of major/risky with Macs?


Advanced Thanks

[Eroda]

the newer dc procs are nice, heat well im not sure but im still happy with where the dp 2.7 runs for me, i dont have any issues

i say wait till october for the intel pmacs
as even the slowest one of those will be similar in speed to the current quad

[CailYoung]

Originally Posted by Starstreams

1. Question: I have an M-Audio delta66 studio sound card for recording that works on both Mac and PC, but will it work with these newer PCI express slots in the G5’s? I think someone at Guitar center was telling me that you can send your M-Audio out to Apple and they will convert it for you free: Anyone know anything about this?

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=...ae0c17b1a4cb48

2 Question: How doses a G5 2GHz compare to an Intel Pentum 2.4GHz? Is it at least as fast? I’m concerned mostly about recording latency with this being the slower G5 of the three choices?

It's near-impossible to compare differing architectures so simply. Suffice to say your latency won't be an issue.

3. Question: And do the slower G5’s run very hot or are they much cooler then the 2.5GHz G5 CPUs?

The PowerMac G5 is designed to run cool. They are excellently designed, thermally speaking.

4. Question: Can I put my own cooler and thermal paste on a G5 like I do on PC’s or is that kind of major/risky with Macs?

Bad idea. As I said, they're designed to run cool. Besides, I'm fairly certain nobody makes a heatsink large enough aside from Apple.

http://www.chaosmint.com/mac/g5-processor-module/

[BenZor]

From what I've seen in the field, overheating powermacs are very very rare.
The thermal system in them is perfect, and quiet.

[Super Crazy]

Originally Posted by BenZor

From what I've seen in the field, overheating powermacs are very very rare.
The thermal system in them is perfect, and quiet.

I'll agree on that as well that they are very quiet...

i almost got a 2ghz dual core G5 around a week ago but pulled out due to money issues...

[Starstreams]

Wow, nice
Thanks for them images CailYoung.
I did see that article at M-Audio’s site today.

@ Eroda

Them Intel’s sound nice but will they be affordable next to a G5?
The other things is, M-Audio doesn’t seem to be making any PCI sound cards at the moment that supports the new PCI express slots, so to use my Delta66 and 100 Id almost have to find a G5 that users the older PCI slots.
Here are the cards I’m referring to by the way.
http://www.midi-classics.com/i/p16558.jpg

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_i...5636772f54.jpg

Don’t want to sell that stuff if I can use it


But I’m hearing from another forum that there is a problem with some of the G5’s called the Cricket. It has something to do with line noise when recording, you here anything about this?
By the way, do you get the OS when you buy a mac or do you have to buy that by itself?

[CailYoung]

Originally Posted by Starstreams

The other things is, M-Audio doesn’t seem to be making any PCI sound cards at the moment that supports the new PCI express slots, so to use my Delta66 and 100 Id almost have to find a G5 that users the older PCI slots.

Apple were selling the older G5s with PCI-X (which is compatible) but it looks like they're out. Your best bet would be to shop around the various Australian resellers.

But I’m hearing from another forum that there is a problem with some of the G5’s called the Cricket. It has something to do with line noise when recording, you here anything about this?

To quote M-Audio:

The incompatibility manifests itself as noise in the signal, sample dropouts, and possibly no audio output at all.

By the way, do you get the OS when you buy a mac or do you have to buy that by itself?

OS X comes with the computer. Minor updates (10.4.0 to 10.4.1 etc) are free, major updates have been priced at A$199.

[PAddLePoP]

I use Logic 7 Pro on my Dual 1.8 G5 with 2gig of RAM. I use Reason in rewire mode as well.

The perfomance is great, no problems with that.

I do have a problem with electrical interferance on the sound channels, apparently due to the powersupply (recognised problem with my model by Apple) but I can't be bothered taking it in to get fixed.

Also my Model suffered from that M-Audio problem and so I had to buy an external Firewire Audiophile which works great.

I just cant wait for my MacBook Pro and universal binary versions of Logic and Reason!! I am thinking it will outpreform my G5 perhaps!

[PAddLePoP]

Also heat is not a problem with the G5's. They produce alot of heat but the cooling system is very sophisticated and can handle pretty much anything.

I was using mine with quite a high CPU load (using Logic + Reason) in Melbourne on the 42 degree days, and my room was that hot (no air con) and it didn't so much as stutter once.

[Starstreams]

Thanks guys

Doesn’t Apple make a computer with both the new and the old PCI slots? I mean for backward compatibility?
Intel has done this for years, why not have both on a mother board.
Apples are so expensive but so un flexable.
The Fire wire is fine but still not as fast as a PCI interface and then you go the M-Audio web site and they warn you not to hot swap the firewall or you’ll fry your system. You can’t win.
I have two great PCI products I can't use. It's no wonder why so many old school Logic users hate Apple, Emagic supported both the PC and Mac world when they owned it, Then Apple comes along like a big bully.
These company and their proprietary games, makes peoples lives miserable.

[PAddLePoP]

The Firewire audiophile is fast enough to use all of the inputs/outputs at once.

I was under the impression that PCIe was backwards compatable?

[CailYoung]

Originally Posted by PAddLePoP

I was under the impression that PCIe was backwards compatable?

PCI-X is, PCI Express is not.

[Starstreams]

Originally Posted by PAddLePoP

The Firewire audiophile is fast enough to use all of the inputs/outputs at once.

Yes but compared to running PCI which is way faster.
What happens when you’re running 24 or more tracks, all the stuff is going through your firewall which is a serial connection, I don’t understand how there can be no latency in that or why the industry is moving in that direction.
All the high end gear is PCI or the newer PCIx
On the other hand even the old 33MHz PCI is still faster. Although the fire wire is nice for the fact that there is less noise because the sound cards is external, but again how can something serial handle 24, 32 tracks? PCI I know can that’s why I bought that stuff and is why I would like to use it with a mac if I get one.

I think these charts are correct.
USB 1.1 = 12 Mbps serial

USB 2.0 = 480 Mbps serial

Fire 400 = 400 Mbps serial

Fire 800 = 800Mbps serial

PCI 33 = 133 MB/s Parallel (Bytes) not bits

PCI 66 = 266 MB/s Parallel (Bytes) not bits

[PAddLePoP]

You would be running 24 similtaneous audio tracks in/out through your interface?

You sure abou that?

And why in the hell would your audio interface have anything to do with your firewall... I think you're a little confused here.

How many tracks in/out do you need at once? Don't you use an external mixer?

[CailYoung]

Originally Posted by Starstreams

Yes but compared to running PCI which is way faster.
What happens when you’re running 24 or more tracks, all the stuff is going through your firewall which is a serial connection, I don’t understand how there can be no latency in that or why the industry is moving in that direction.

I presume you mean firewire, not firewall.

Packetising, to put a word on it. Remember your sampling rates? Well, if you run your serial bus at max sample rate times bit depth times number of tracks (so, for argument's sake, 192kHz x 24bit x 24 tracks = 110.6MHz = 110.6Mb/s on a serial line, well under FireWire's 400Mb/s) then you can, through time division multiplexing, send simultaneous multitrack audio down a serial bus. There is unavoidable delay, but only in that the tracks have to be serialised and then put back together at the other end.

To quote a review of the device mentioned:

On both platforms the audio drivers worked flawlessly down to the smallest buffer size of 64 samples, recording at the maximum resolution of 24-bit and 96kHz sample rate, giving an impressively (almost) negligible 1.5ms of latency.

A 'buffer' is what I'm talking about as a packet. The hardware multiplexes all its channels and sends out a buffer. You can have longer buffers (less CPU usage) but then your latency will be longer. I think 1.5ms is pretty good, yourself?

The industry's moving toward external serial devices because it's very hard to cram much onto a PCI card, and if you're going to use a big breakout box you may as well make it something you can move between hosts, and that's only possible (feasibly) with firewire or the like.

EDIT: To be straight with you, the widest firewire interfaces I've seen are 18/14 (or vice-versa) - 32 channels total would appear to be the limit of the medium. But in all seriousness - exactly how often are you going to be simultaneously recording and playing out 24 tracks?