Serial Attached SCSI - lets talk about it

tonner78 · 10th July 2006, 5:20 PM

SAS is a new server technology that I have only just come across - HP have made it part of their new G5 ML350. It seems on some research that it is a quicker interface than the original SCSI and allows for a smaller hard disk (2.5"). I had a bit of look at the following website:

http://www.lsilogic.com/technologies...dards/sas.html

Anyone come across this new technology much yet? Thoughts and etc? Discuss away.

Mitch01 · 10th July 2006, 8:27 PM

Yeah I've heard only good things about it in APC and PC Authority magazines, and it looks like it will take over SCSI really soon.

IDE > SATA -> Cheap Server/NAS/Home Market
SCSI > SAS -> Business/High End NAS.

Thats how I see things progressing.

Downside is that the drives are horrifically expensive last time I looked (about a month back), but like everything they will come down in price.

I'm certainly looking forward to it, as SCSI is a pain in the arse I reckon.

power · 10th July 2006, 8:38 PM

i recently got a couple of these drives to play with but haven't as yet plugged them in, from the get go one of the big advantages is spindle speed. These suckers spin at 15k which as we know is pretty quick and apart from that i can't remember that much but yeah look like a normal sata ide drive for all intents and purposes but are shiteloads faster.

dirtyd · 10th July 2006, 9:18 PM

SCSI always has and always will be expensive as hell, because of the target market, and the fact that its still pretty much the best you can get. Must be why Apple rode it so long ago?

lavi · 10th July 2006, 11:12 PM

hell expensive!

i got a quote for a new server DL380 G4 then i said whatta hell let's see how much a G5 is, well the drives are double and a bit, i said fuck it! I'm sticking with 3x 15K drives in raid1

Mitch01 · 10th July 2006, 11:31 PM

Actually looking again its not that much more, though its 10k drives vs 15k scsi drives.

Quote:

Website address withheld, RRP prices.
HP 72GB SAS SCSI 10K hot-swap drive [375861-B21] $937.00
HP 72.8GB Ultra320 SCSI 10K hot-swap drive [355523-B21] $654.00
HP 72GB 15K U320 Universal Hot Plug Drive [286778-B22] $808.00

Scary prices, but then again check out the price of HP Genuine ECC Reg DDR RAM.. 2GB Kits are downright terrifying.

Quote:

Improved performance with SAS

Higher reliability
> 1.7 million mean time between failure (vs. 1.5 million for 3.5" SCSI)

Better performance
> Serial point-to-point connections
> More spindles per platform
> SAS Drives, 3GB transfer rates

Flexible configurations
> Mix and match SAS and SATA drives
> More drive bays in each server

Greater efficiency / improved thermals
> Smaller form factor enables better airflow
> Half the power consumption of 3.5" drives

stalin · 11th July 2006, 10:30 AM

We have a few Sun servers with little SAS disks in there (2.5inch) is really nice.

Also have a IBM Nearline storage controller with 6x2.5inch SAS disks means you can get more spindles per RU with enterprise technology, all good in my books.

Have yet to play with a SAS system with mixed SCSI/SATA disks however, but im sure they will start to pop up in a couple years.

flugle · 11th July 2006, 11:52 AM

We're starting to see a few of the G5s with SAS drives.

One of the main attractions is the increased density that the 2.5" form factors provide. The DL380 can now take 8 of these drives, up from 6. The 370 is even better, where you can now fit 16 drives within the one box. That many spindles should give some nice performance locally - removing the need for external storage.

A few clients of ours are interested in benching some to compare performance - they may be able to get away with using these rather than external high performance (and higher priced) storage.

I'm not sure about other vendors' controllers but the HP ones are nice in that you can mix and match SAS and SATA disks on the one controller - allowing you to mix high performance and low costs disks in the 1 shelf.

[AOB]TommO · 11th July 2006, 1:24 PM

We have installed a few of these in our data centre over the past couple of months. However, we will only use them for on-board storage (O/S, Application), as we won't be steering away from SAN fibre optic storage for some time, due to the huge cost with relatively limited disk performance increase.

Are these faster than fibre channel drives? The idea of replacing 1000+ 146gb/500gb fibre channel hard drives with these isn't too appealing, if speed ever becomes a major issue for our business.

Given a few years, it will be interesting to see how mainstream they become. Amazingly how quickly data bottlenecks are disappearing (for an average user/server anyway)

. I do like the idea of being able to fit more drives into less rack space... that alone is almost worth the cost increase.

The one think that does interest me is the lower power consumption, of course I presume there's a heat increase to go with that (considering the drives are smaller). Combine these with blade technology, and the hardware is outdoing more data centre cooling capabilities (which unfortunately many people don't consider).

hyperstyle · 11th July 2006, 2:26 PM

We ordered a 2950 PowerEdge server from dell a few weeks ago with 4 SAS drives in Raid 10. Got a really good deal as well. But anyway the server is sitting in a datacenter waiting for me to set it up. I'll let you guys know how it performs.

tonner78 · 11th July 2006, 3:05 PM

Lots of interesting info and opinions. Certainly looking forward to having a play with a G5 with this technology myself. Keep the thoughts coming...

willy · 11th July 2006, 4:57 PM

This thursday I'm expecting a

Dell MD1000 Enclosure, Complete with 12 300GB 10KRPM SAS Drives and a Perc5 Controller.

Around 10K all up.

I let you know what it is like when i get some time to install the thing.

stalin · 13th July 2006, 2:24 PM

http://www.sun.com/servers/x64/x4500/index.jsp

24TB in 4RU, using SAS disks.

Aetherone · 13th July 2006, 3:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalin

http://www.sun.com/servers/x64/x4500/index.jsp

strangely enough I'm not at all worried that that thing makes me come over all funny

stalin · 13th July 2006, 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aetherone

strangely enough I'm not at all worried that that thing makes me come over all funny

Ps that virtual tour is really cool if you haven't looked at it.

10th July 2006, 5:20 PM	#1
tonner78 Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Inside the Matrix Posts: 1,356	Serial Attached SCSI - lets talk about it SAS is a new server technology that I have only just come across - HP have made it part of their new G5 ML350. It seems on some research that it is a quicker interface than the original SCSI and allows for a smaller hard disk (2.5"). I had a bit of look at the following website: http://www.lsilogic.com/technologies...dards/sas.html Anyone come across this new technology much yet? Thoughts and etc? Discuss away. __________________ Tech Musings

10th July 2006, 8:27 PM	#2
Mitch01 Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 27,476	Yeah I've heard only good things about it in APC and PC Authority magazines, and it looks like it will take over SCSI really soon. IDE > SATA -> Cheap Server/NAS/Home Market SCSI > SAS -> Business/High End NAS. Thats how I see things progressing. Downside is that the drives are horrifically expensive last time I looked (about a month back), but like everything they will come down in price. I'm certainly looking forward to it, as SCSI is a pain in the arse I reckon. __________________ "I think in this world, if you can do something you love as a job and it doesn't feel like a job that is one of the greatest gifts you can have" - Hugh Jackman 2009

10th July 2006, 8:38 PM	#3
power Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: brisbane Posts: 27,147	i recently got a couple of these drives to play with but haven't as yet plugged them in, from the get go one of the big advantages is spindle speed. These suckers spin at 15k which as we know is pretty quick and apart from that i can't remember that much but yeah look like a normal sata ide drive for all intents and purposes but are shiteloads faster. __________________ this is who we are.

10th July 2006, 9:18 PM	#4
dirtyd Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 3,681	SCSI always has and always will be expensive as hell, because of the target market, and the fact that its still pretty much the best you can get. Must be why Apple rode it so long ago? __________________ "It is worthy of remark that a belief constantly inculcated during the early years of life, whilst the brain is impressible, appears to acquire almost the nature of an instinct; and the very essence of an instinct is that it is followed independently of reason." - Charles Darwin \| trustworthy traders

10th July 2006, 11:12 PM	#5
lavi Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brisbane Posts: 3,838	hell expensive! i got a quote for a new server DL380 G4 then i said whatta hell let's see how much a G5 is, well the drives are double and a bit, i said fuck it! I'm sticking with 3x 15K drives in raid1 __________________ "There is a war inside my head, If I take a day off I'll die! "

11th July 2006, 10:30 AM	#7
stalin (Taking a Break) Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the move Posts: 4,584	We have a few Sun servers with little SAS disks in there (2.5inch) is really nice. Also have a IBM Nearline storage controller with 6x2.5inch SAS disks means you can get more spindles per RU with enterprise technology, all good in my books. Have yet to play with a SAS system with mixed SCSI/SATA disks however, but im sure they will start to pop up in a couple years.

11th July 2006, 11:52 AM	#8
flugle Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Newcastle, NSW Posts: 795	We're starting to see a few of the G5s with SAS drives. One of the main attractions is the increased density that the 2.5" form factors provide. The DL380 can now take 8 of these drives, up from 6. The 370 is even better, where you can now fit 16 drives within the one box. That many spindles should give some nice performance locally - removing the need for external storage. A few clients of ours are interested in benching some to compare performance - they may be able to get away with using these rather than external high performance (and higher priced) storage. I'm not sure about other vendors' controllers but the HP ones are nice in that you can mix and match SAS and SATA disks on the one controller - allowing you to mix high performance and low costs disks in the 1 shelf.

11th July 2006, 1:24 PM	#9
[AOB]TommO Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,590	We have installed a few of these in our data centre over the past couple of months. However, we will only use them for on-board storage (O/S, Application), as we won't be steering away from SAN fibre optic storage for some time, due to the huge cost with relatively limited disk performance increase. Are these faster than fibre channel drives? The idea of replacing 1000+ 146gb/500gb fibre channel hard drives with these isn't too appealing, if speed ever becomes a major issue for our business. Given a few years, it will be interesting to see how mainstream they become. Amazingly how quickly data bottlenecks are disappearing (for an average user/server anyway) . I do like the idea of being able to fit more drives into less rack space... that alone is almost worth the cost increase. The one think that does interest me is the lower power consumption, of course I presume there's a heat increase to go with that (considering the drives are smaller). Combine these with blade technology, and the hardware is outdoing more data centre cooling capabilities (which unfortunately many people don't consider).

11th July 2006, 2:26 PM	#10
hyperstyle Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Brisbane Posts: 1,731	We ordered a 2950 PowerEdge server from dell a few weeks ago with 4 SAS drives in Raid 10. Got a really good deal as well. But anyway the server is sitting in a datacenter waiting for me to set it up. I'll let you guys know how it performs.

11th July 2006, 3:05 PM	#11
tonner78 Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Inside the Matrix Posts: 1,356	Lots of interesting info and opinions. Certainly looking forward to having a play with a G5 with this technology myself. Keep the thoughts coming... __________________ Tech Musings

11th July 2006, 4:57 PM	#12
willy Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,252	This thursday I'm expecting a Dell MD1000 Enclosure, Complete with 12 300GB 10KRPM SAS Drives and a Perc5 Controller. Around 10K all up. I let you know what it is like when i get some time to install the thing. __________________ 3rd For Muon for [OCAU] as [OCAU]GUS ANTEC CASE OWNERS/MODDERS MEMBER #05

13th July 2006, 2:24 PM	#13
stalin (Taking a Break) Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the move Posts: 4,584	http://www.sun.com/servers/x64/x4500/index.jsp 24TB in 4RU, using SAS disks.