Gourami Woes

JaC · 9th August 2006, 8:50 PM

I have big fish woes, I need advice.

I have 12 or so rummynose tetras, 3 bristlenose and 3 dwarf gouramis.

In the past few days one of my gouramis has been lethargic (but with no other external signs of illness or injury), and today he's just been floating at either the very top or very bottom, sometimes off balance. I just noticed after looking carefully at my other two other gouramis that they have ulcers on their sides. All my tetras and bristlenose cats seem fine. I tried to take a photo of one of the ulcers, but the only camera I have right now is my phone.

Here's my crappy photography
http://www.jacteh.com/DSC00063.jpg

After a quick look around (in particular, here: http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#External), I'm thinking that water quality deterioration has caused a bacterial outbreak.
I have been busy and hadn't changed the water for 2.5 weeks before today.

I don't have any medications on hand apart from melafix and triple-sulfa. I have put some melafix in already.

The lethargic fish looks like he's really on his last legs. He's listless. The other two gouramis with ulcers are still swimming strong and don't seem to be bothered too much.

Does it sound like a bacterial infection? Is it survivable? Is it contagious? What's the best course of action? Would the triple-Sulfa help or hurt (or neither)? My hospital tank has been lent out to a mate, so can I make do with treating them in the community tank? I could probably get it back tomorrow if necessary, is it? Is there a point at which I should euthenize or should I keep trying to treat them until they float?

My current plan is to let them go tonight, and tomorrow morning run to the shops and get some tetracycline (or other broad spectrum antibiotic) and does them with that, as well as keeping the melafix up to them too.

Any advice would be great, I hate seeing my little fishies like this

After further reading, it looks like it could be columnaris (http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...columnaris.htm). I'm going to put some triple-sulfa in for the time being and continue treatment with tetracycline when i get some tomorrow.

MUTMAN · 9th August 2006, 9:10 PM

do a water change straight away ~25%
sorry to sound horrible but the one thats floating probably wont make it

i hope the rest make it through

mibberz · 9th August 2006, 9:23 PM

keep up waterflow and do a extra 25% change next day

JaC · 9th August 2006, 9:29 PM

I did a 25+% water change a few hours ago. I'm not optimistic about the floating one.

Unless anyone has any other ideas, I'll keep up the 25% water changes daily with tetracycline and melafix and see how the rest go .

loose-moose1 · 9th August 2006, 11:41 PM

Hi, this may not be news you want to hear, but it is very likely your dwarf gouramis are suffering from a mycobacterium infection. This is a common problem in Australia especially with rainbows, dwarf gouramis and rams. There is no treatment for this other than maintaining the best possible conditions and diet for your fish. Normally when fish show ulcers the best treatment is euthanasia. Check out this article from Adrian Tappin, its directed to rainbows, but it applies to dwarf gouramis. http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Myco.htm
Do yourself a favour and google mycobacterium, but there is some worrying reading.

l00b3r · 10th August 2006, 3:37 AM

go get some Melafix, or something along those lines.
50% Water change again, then another 50% the day after.

make sure you have sufficient air and water flow within the tank.
Make sure the filter isn't clogged.
Feed as per usual.

oh..
umn...

failing that.
dont worry

least you didnt lose 3 X $450 this week, i know I did.

-Matt

JaC · 10th August 2006, 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l00b3r

go get some Melafix, or something along those lines.
50% Water change again, then another 50% the day after.

make sure you have sufficient air and water flow within the tank.
Make sure the filter isn't clogged.
Feed as per usual.

oh..
umn...

failing that.
dont worry

least you didnt lose 3 X $450 this week, i know I did.

-Matt

I think I'm verging on excessive water flow, I'm in the process of making a diffuser for my filter. I've got plenty of air as well. I'll keep the melafix and water changes up. Should I abandon the antibiotics?

Fingers crossed its not fish TB. kinda worried after sucking on the syphon

Thanks for the info fellas

JaC · 10th August 2006, 4:08 AM

Actually, after reading about it, I did have a leopard danio that ended up looking like this, shortly before dying

http://www.fishpalace.org/unknownwasting_me.jpg

fuck

sorry to hear about your loss matt, puts mine in perspective

jesus, some scary photos of human infection too

Pat · 10th August 2006, 9:26 AM

throw in a bit of sea salt too. Always helps a bit.

brycer · 10th August 2006, 9:48 AM

And dont stock gouramis when these three have died. The quality of the stock has been appaulling for years. No matter what you do they almost all seem to get those tumours and expire.

JaC · 10th August 2006, 10:36 AM

Thanks, any tips on quarrantine processes to avoid introducing bacteria/virusses? I have a small hostpital tank, should i use that just with a glass bottom? how long for? should the water chemistry be any different to the water in my main tank?

I guess this gives me a reason to tear my tank down and make my own clay/gravel substrate and do things a little slower and better than I did last time.

Guts · 10th August 2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l00b3r

go get some Melafix, or something along those lines.
50% Water change again, then another 50% the day after.

make sure you have sufficient air and water flow within the tank.
Make sure the filter isn't clogged.
Feed as per usual.

oh..
umn...

failing that.
dont worry

least you didnt lose 3 X $450 this week, i know I did.

-Matt

Your joking right, so essentially he should change 100% of the water over 2 days......

Whenever doing water changes the MAXIMUM that you should do is no more then 50% as you loose alot of beneificial bactieria in the water and the filter(as the filter is usually both a biologicial and mechanical filter) which helps keep the water condition good. Also to keep the water conditions top notch it should be changed around 20% every week/2weeks.

By the look of that tumour that fish is gonner, sorry.
In the long run you would be best euthanising him. Best way is to get a small icecream container of water, put it in the freezer for 1hr or more till it goes icey on the top, break the ice then dip the fish into it with the net, should kill them pretty quick.

MUTMAN · 10th August 2006, 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guts

...so essentially he should change 100% of the water over 2 days.....Whenever doing water changes the MAXIMUM that you should do is no more then 50% as you loose alot of beneificial bactieria in the water and the filter...

the old water *may* be toxic, no point in keeping lots of it
doing 2 x 50% changes = 25% old water left over
the good bacteria in the filter will survive and repopulate very quickly,
if the medicine kills it, a dose of 'cycle' or 'geo' will kick start the bacteria

@ JaC
do a good vac of the gravel, ~25%-50% with each water change

JaC · 11th August 2006, 10:22 AM

Alrighty, a few last questions

Does anyone know of any places that would be able to culture the bacteria and tell me for sure if it is/isn't fishy tb?

does anyone know where i could get some good shoulder length gloves?

any tips for syphoning without getting water anywhere near my mouth?

I'll just keep maintenance up as per usual. If things take a turn for the worse I'll euthanise. When I get a few days off uni in September I'll probably euthanise any survivors, pull the tank down, chlorine scrub it all and start from scratch and go VERY slowly. i'll take the opportunity to mix in some good healthy clay (with my freshly sterilised gravel) and concentrate more on my plants for a while.

as far as quarantine procedures go, my plan is to have a quarantine tank where i'll keep fishies for at least 2 weeks prior to going in the big tank. is this too short/too long? should i have water chemistry any different? (eg more salt)

lastly, when it comes time to restock, does anyone have any recommendations for trusted places to get good healthy fish?

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Pat · 11th August 2006, 10:34 AM

does it really look that much like tb, you may be going a bit overboard.
As far as the syphoning goes stick the entire hose in the water so it fills up then put your thumb over one end as you pull it out and point it into your bucket.
Just get rid of the goramis and let the tank go on as usual, my tank if fine after a couple of goramis died with ulcerations etc in it about 4 months ago.

9th August 2006, 8:50 PM	#1
JaC Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 1,039	Gourami Woes I have big fish woes, I need advice. I have 12 or so rummynose tetras, 3 bristlenose and 3 dwarf gouramis. In the past few days one of my gouramis has been lethargic (but with no other external signs of illness or injury), and today he's just been floating at either the very top or very bottom, sometimes off balance. I just noticed after looking carefully at my other two other gouramis that they have ulcers on their sides. All my tetras and bristlenose cats seem fine. I tried to take a photo of one of the ulcers, but the only camera I have right now is my phone. Here's my crappy photography http://www.jacteh.com/DSC00063.jpg After a quick look around (in particular, here: http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#External), I'm thinking that water quality deterioration has caused a bacterial outbreak. I have been busy and hadn't changed the water for 2.5 weeks before today. I don't have any medications on hand apart from melafix and triple-sulfa. I have put some melafix in already. The lethargic fish looks like he's really on his last legs. He's listless. The other two gouramis with ulcers are still swimming strong and don't seem to be bothered too much. Does it sound like a bacterial infection? Is it survivable? Is it contagious? What's the best course of action? Would the triple-Sulfa help or hurt (or neither)? My hospital tank has been lent out to a mate, so can I make do with treating them in the community tank? I could probably get it back tomorrow if necessary, is it? Is there a point at which I should euthenize or should I keep trying to treat them until they float? My current plan is to let them go tonight, and tomorrow morning run to the shops and get some tetracycline (or other broad spectrum antibiotic) and does them with that, as well as keeping the melafix up to them too. Any advice would be great, I hate seeing my little fishies like this After further reading, it looks like it could be columnaris (http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...columnaris.htm). I'm going to put some triple-sulfa in for the time being and continue treatment with tetracycline when i get some tomorrow. __________________ . Last edited by JaC; 9th August 2006 at 9:09 PM.

9th August 2006, 9:23 PM	#3
mibberz Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Kalgoorlie Posts: 2,608	keep up waterflow and do a extra 25% change next day __________________ Referer links are not permitted on OCAU. incase people didnt know! OCAU Scuba Diver Member #01 My Ebay Stuff Urban Dead rocks!

9th August 2006, 9:29 PM	#4
JaC Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 1,039	I did a 25+% water change a few hours ago. I'm not optimistic about the floating one. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I'll keep up the 25% water changes daily with tetracycline and melafix and see how the rest go . __________________ .

10th August 2006, 4:08 AM	#8
JaC Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 1,039	Actually, after reading about it, I did have a leopard danio that ended up looking like this, shortly before dying http://www.fishpalace.org/unknownwasting_me.jpg fuck sorry to hear about your loss matt, puts mine in perspective jesus, some scary photos of human infection too __________________ . Last edited by JaC; 10th August 2006 at 4:12 AM.

10th August 2006, 9:26 AM	#9
Pat Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hiding in your basement Posts: 543	throw in a bit of sea salt too. Always helps a bit. __________________ OCAU Aquarium Club Member #016

9th August 2006, 9:10 PM	#2
MUTMAN Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: brisvegas Posts: 2,054	do a water change straight away ~25% sorry to sound horrible but the one thats floating probably wont make it i hope the rest make it through

9th August 2006, 11:41 PM	#5
loose-moose1 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 2	Hi, this may not be news you want to hear, but it is very likely your dwarf gouramis are suffering from a mycobacterium infection. This is a common problem in Australia especially with rainbows, dwarf gouramis and rams. There is no treatment for this other than maintaining the best possible conditions and diet for your fish. Normally when fish show ulcers the best treatment is euthanasia. Check out this article from Adrian Tappin, its directed to rainbows, but it applies to dwarf gouramis. http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Myco.htm Do yourself a favour and google mycobacterium, but there is some worrying reading.

10th August 2006, 3:37 AM	#6
l00b3r (Banned or Deleted) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Somewhere Urban..... Bris Posts: 8,357	go get some Melafix, or something along those lines. 50% Water change again, then another 50% the day after. make sure you have sufficient air and water flow within the tank. Make sure the filter isn't clogged. Feed as per usual. oh.. umn... failing that. dont worry least you didnt lose 3 X $450 this week, i know I did. -Matt

10th August 2006, 9:48 AM	#10
brycer Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Melbourne Aust Posts: 2,404	And dont stock gouramis when these three have died. The quality of the stock has been appaulling for years. No matter what you do they almost all seem to get those tumours and expire. __________________ q9400 @ Stock\|Gigabyte 965P-DQ6 \|4GB Crucial DDR2 800\| Gigabyte GTX275\| X-Fi Ext Music\| Seagate 320gb 7900.10 SATA \| 2x WD 120Gb SATA RAID0\| OCZ 700W PSU \| Antec Sonata Case \| SyncMaster 2333

10th August 2006, 10:36 AM	#11
JaC Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 1,039	Thanks, any tips on quarrantine processes to avoid introducing bacteria/virusses? I have a small hostpital tank, should i use that just with a glass bottom? how long for? should the water chemistry be any different to the water in my main tank? I guess this gives me a reason to tear my tank down and make my own clay/gravel substrate and do things a little slower and better than I did last time. __________________ .

11th August 2006, 10:22 AM	#14
JaC Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 1,039	Alrighty, a few last questions Does anyone know of any places that would be able to culture the bacteria and tell me for sure if it is/isn't fishy tb? does anyone know where i could get some good shoulder length gloves? any tips for syphoning without getting water anywhere near my mouth? I'll just keep maintenance up as per usual. If things take a turn for the worse I'll euthanise. When I get a few days off uni in September I'll probably euthanise any survivors, pull the tank down, chlorine scrub it all and start from scratch and go VERY slowly. i'll take the opportunity to mix in some good healthy clay (with my freshly sterilised gravel) and concentrate more on my plants for a while. as far as quarantine procedures go, my plan is to have a quarantine tank where i'll keep fishies for at least 2 weeks prior to going in the big tank. is this too short/too long? should i have water chemistry any different? (eg more salt) lastly, when it comes time to restock, does anyone have any recommendations for trusted places to get good healthy fish? Thanks for all the help everyone. __________________ .

11th August 2006, 10:34 AM	#15
Pat Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hiding in your basement Posts: 543	does it really look that much like tb, you may be going a bit overboard. As far as the syphoning goes stick the entire hose in the water so it fills up then put your thumb over one end as you pull it out and point it into your bucket. Just get rid of the goramis and let the tank go on as usual, my tank if fine after a couple of goramis died with ulcerations etc in it about 4 months ago. __________________ OCAU Aquarium Club Member #016 Last edited by Pat; 14th August 2006 at 8:59 AM.