Next Gen Laptops

[cyrax83]

Hey guys, when are the next gen dell laptops arriving ? (i.e. perhaps with a 7600 go which i hear is alot better than the ati x1400). I think alienware is shipping with 7600 go's, but from what i've heard they are the same company as dell, so why arent dell doing this in their line ?

I also read this

If you're about to purchase a laptop and could wait or hire, then it's important that you know that Intel will be releasing a major change in laptop level in early 2007. Intel will be releasing the new mobile chipset code named Santa Rosa.

as default ;

* Vista OS installed and licensed
* The new WIFI standard. 802.11n + a/b/g
* 3G mobile support, WWAN. Allows connection to mobile network from your laptop.
* T/L vortex capable graphic gpu, with DX10 ability.
* 8 hour battery life due to new mobo chipset and other features
* HDMI or UDI video output new standard. Downward compatible with VGA!
* 800mhz or 667 FSB
* The new bios standard, called UEFI
* Vanderpool & AMT as standard
* NAND ram. So instant start up of OS and system status stays in ram on power off
* New Socket P standard
* Other features ...

www.google.com.au/search...tnG=Search&meta=

Not to mention, current Laptops are way over priced when you consider the low prices on LCD's and other components. What you're paying now for a $3000 system maybe $1000 or less, in 6 months.

any comments ?

[MrSmith]

Wow.

That's really got me thinking I should hold off ordering my dell 6400 for 6 months :|

[SLATYE]

Those points are pretty dodgy.

Vista OS installed and licensed

I don't think so. Since when was the OS bundled with the chipset? And this suggests that it's installed on the chipset (rather than the HDD - which is obviously wrong). Laptops using Santa Rosa may have Vista installed on them - but laptops using Napa (the current chipset) can have exactly the same thing! This is nothing new.

The new WIFI standard. 802.11n + a/b/g

That'll almost certainly just be on a mini-PCIe card - so the standard 802.11n card will be perfectly usable in Napa laptops too.

3G mobile support, WWAN. Allows connection to mobile network from your laptop.

I seriously doubt that this will be part of the chipset - just another add-on, which will also work fine with Napa.

T/L vortex capable graphic gpu, with DX10 ability.

G965 may be DX10 capable (that's under debate). It's pretty irrelevant - at the moment, i945G beats G965, so that DX10 support is going to be essentially useless (unless DX10 games now come with support for 160x120 resolution).

8 hour battery life due to new mobo chipset and other features

True, if you use a ULV CPU and chipset. You can already get this battery life with Napa.

HDMI or UDI video output new standard. Downward compatible with VGA!

HDMI output would be nice. I just don't think it'll be used - most manufacturers haven't even used DVI yet.

800mhz or 667 FSB

Yes, that'll be nice. A small performance boost at any clock speed.

The new bios standard, called UEFI

Again, I'm pretty sure that this can be used with Napa too - it's just a matter of persuading manufacturers to bother with it. I'd be very surprised if they move away from the traditional BIOS with Santa Rosa.

Vanderpool & AMT as standard

Vanderpool (VT) has been supported for ages - all Core Duos except the T2300E and all Core 2 Duos except the T5500 support it. As far as I can tell, Napa also supports AMT.

NAND ram. So instant start up of OS and system status stays in ram on power off

As with so many other things, this depends purely on the laptop vendor. You could probably add NAND RAM to a Napa laptop if you had $5,000 spare - but most people prefer to save the money and just wait a bit longer for the laptop to start. Samsung's already released Napa laptops with solid-state HDDs (which should give the same effect).

New Socket P standard

Yes, this will give more upgrade options - but not really anything else.

Not to mention, current Laptops are way over priced when you consider the low prices on LCD's and other components. What you're paying now for a $3000 system maybe $1000 or less, in 6 months.

This has always been the case. It's called "profit". In six months, a Core Duo laptop bought for $3000 probably will be worth more like $1000 - but that's just how PCs tend to go (except that laptops lose value faster because they've got less upgrade options, more wear & tear, and the warranty matters a lot).

Essentially, almost everything they said is stuff which will be possible on Santa Rosa - but it was also possible on Napa. The fact that no manufacturer is using it yet indicates how important they think it is. Eventually we will see laptops with NAND RAM and UEFI - but they won't magically appear as soon as Santa Rosa is released (or at least not for reasonable prices. A few manufacturers might release $10,000 models with that stuff). Most of the early Santa Rosa laptops will be just like the Napa ones - just with an IGP which may or may not be capable of running DX10 and an 800Mhz FSB. Similarly, Santa Rosa being released won't magically make manufacturers abandon their profit margins so they can offer us cheap laptops. They won't say "this costs us $1000 to make, so we'll cut the price from $3000 to $1100". Instead, they'll say "this costs us $1000 to make, but it's got a new chipset - so make it $3500".


Regarding the question in the original post:
Dell might upgrade to the Geforce Go 7600 or Radeon Mobility X1600 when Santa Rosa is released. It's also quite possible that they won't bother - if they stay with the X1400 as the fastest card, they can probably keep using the same case as the Inspiron 6400 currently has. Using a faster GPU would mean modifying the case for better cooling.

Why would Dell release a laptop with an X1600 or Geforce Go 7600 when Alienware already have one? They'd be competing against themselves!

[MrSmith]

So Slatye, do you think it's worth waiting untill santa rosa is released, and possibly a new GPU, or just buy it now?

[qwijibo]

Like everything computing related, if you wait, you always get something faster/cheaper/better - it is the nature of the beast.

So the standard advice applies - if you need it now, buy now. If you don't, then hold off until your need outweighs the "oh but the next best thing is around the corner" factor.

Personally it wouldn't stop me from buying a dell 6400 - they are cheap enough that you can just toss it in 12 months time, and buy whatever is super-best at the time.

[cyrax83]

considering alot of new things are around the corner (3-6 months) - vista, new chipset, possible addition to video chipset, dx10, falling lcd prices etc i might hold off for a bit personally.

Laptop isnt exactly crucial to my tasks at the moment as I got my beasty desktop, and being a poor ass student whos got a weekend job that pays shit all, gotta make sure i put my cash to a decent investment.

[SLATYE]

Originally Posted by MrSmith

So Slatye, do you think it's worth waiting untill santa rosa is released, and possibly a new GPU, or just buy it now?

I'd buy now.

Really, the only thing that Santa Rosa will add immediately is the higher FSB and better IGP (which is completely irrelevant if you're using a dedicated GPU anyway). If you want all the other things, you'll be waiting a year or two (and then probably paying a fortune too). I don't think it's worth waiting that long.

[lowdog]

Was on the phone to DELL today, the rep told me the new Santa Rosa chipset and the new Nvidia G80 would be in their next gen notebooks which will be available in March 07...............6 months away,I'll be getting one of these for sure.

[SLATYE]

Originally Posted by lowdog

Was on the phone to DELL today, the rep told me the new Santa Rosa chipset and the new Nvidia G80 would be in their next gen notebooks which will be available in March 07...............6 months away,I'll be getting one of these for sure.

I'm somewhat less reluctant to trust Dell about release dates now - when I talked to them, they said they'd have C2D laptops available a few days after C2D was released. It's taken two months since then for the laptops to become available.

It also seems strange that they can predict that Nvidia will have mobile G80-series CPUs available in six months - even the top-end desktop G80 isn't available yet.

It's not impossible, but I think it's unlikely.

[MrSmith]

The G80 is due for release in June 07 in the US, I somehow find it unlikely that dell will have them in the laptops for release in australia for march 07.

[lowdog]

Originally Posted by MrSmith

The G80 is due for release in June 07 in the US, I somehow find it unlikely that dell will have them in the laptops for release in australia for march 07.

I thought G80 taped out some time ago , somehow I can't see Nvidia releasing a DX10 part six months after Vista is due for release, just doesn't seem buisness savvy at all. Intel have slated Santa Rosa for Q1/07 and from all reports around the web a G80 mobile part is slated for the same time period.

[lowdog]

Just got info that G80 is in full production atm.........looks like being released before the years end, which means we should see GO G80 by Q2/07 with some luck.

[mugen.]

800MHz and DX10 graphics would be nice, but mainstream mobile video parts are always slow relative to the demands placed upon them and nothing with radically change merely by transitioning to DX10: just as mobile X1600s and 7600s are scarcely true gaming cards now, the DX10 parts in March 2007 will scarcely be gaming cards for the then-games.

What would persuade me to wait is the promise of 8 hour battery life, but as Slayte said, it is probably highly conditional and referring to ULV chips/chipsets, given that there does not appear to be a revolution in mobile energy density shortly coming to market, and power demands have been increasing or constant since P-M.

As for Dell - I think the putative value that Dell offers is largely illusory. While Dell laptops might be a bit cheaper, the build quality is quite poor; they are massive bricks; most are missing all of the 'premium' features such as DVI; the options available are limited; and so on.

[SLATYE]

Originally Posted by mugen.

As for Dell - I think the putative value that Dell offers is largely illusory. While Dell laptops might be a bit cheaper, the build quality is quite poor; they are massive bricks; most are missing all of the 'premium' features such as DVI; the options available are limited; and so on.

This is true - but when it's five hundred dollars cheaper than the nearest rival, the offer is hard to refuse. Build quality is also pretty good now (much better than the Inspiron 6000 and similar).

Limited options isn't really specific to Dell - it's just laptops in general. Most Asus/Toshiba/Lenovo/HP/Compaq come with pre-defined specs which cannot be changed (only upgraded later); Dell at least allow you to make a few changes when you buy (and then provide the full service manual online so you can upgrade it later without paying a technician to do it).

The size/weight are a bit annoying, but the weight is really very close to most other laptops of similar specs and thickness shouldn't matter too much unless you're travelling frequently (if you're doing that, the D620 and D420 are very thin and would be ideal).

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by SLATYE

This is true - but when it's five hundred dollars cheaper than the nearest rival, the offer is hard to refuse. Build quality is also pretty good now (much better than the Inspiron 6000 and similar).

What i find really frustrating is that if you lived in the US you can order a laptop there from dell for around 2500 AUD but here the same thing costs you around 3200 - 3600 AUD

I was recently over in the states and just before i came home i saw all these Sager style notebooks in the back of a mag for almost half the price we pay for the same ODM notebooks. I wish i had of checked just how cheap notebooks over there were before i went so i could have planned ahead and had money to buy one.