Lithium batteries, WH do we have to charge them 12hours first time?

aerospyke · 9th October 2006, 10:09 PM

Hey guys

I have a strange question, why oh WHY do we have to charge new batteries for 12 hours before first use? I can't see a technological use for it, especially when the device, be it a PDA or mobile phone, thinks it is full anyway.

anyone shed some light on my puzzlement? any links to places that explain it?

josh81 · 9th October 2006, 10:24 PM

Yeah, if the charger is designed to cut of power transfer once the battery is full, then it can't possibly do any more once it's full.

MrSmith · 9th October 2006, 11:10 PM

You have to trickle charge them first up, so it recognizes the capacity of the battery, then every other time you can charge it normally.

aerospyke · 10th October 2006, 9:40 AM

define trickle charge if it looks like its charging normally? do you actually DO anything different? if not what stops you from trickle charging it any other time?

mordy · 10th October 2006, 10:42 AM

lithium batteries have complicated electronics which allows them to keep track of their capacity to high accuracy.

You need to give the batteries' computer a reference point of 100% full, so giving it a 12 hour charge ensures that the battery knows exactly how much its 100% is.

Technically though you can do a full discharge/recharge cycle at any time instead of the initial 12hr charge.

Opteron · 11th October 2006, 9:51 PM

i think its stupid, manufacturers should just do it for us

mordy · 12th October 2006, 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opteron

i think its stupid, manufacturers should just do it for us

because the internals of the lithium batteries last longest at around 70% charge, so they charge them there for max shelf-life. A 100% charged battery would not be good for the consumer.

aerospyke · 12th October 2006, 3:54 PM

Either way, these batteries have a 2 year life .... and that is a 2 years from manufacturing, NOT first use.

Jezmad · 12th October 2006, 4:43 PM

You don't. Check Dan's site. He has lots of info on there about batteries. I don't long first charge my Li-on batteries and haven't had any crap out on me or have less usage time than the specs. Haven't had any explode either.

mordy · 12th October 2006, 6:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerospyke

Either way, these batteries have a 2 year life .... and that is a 2 years from manufacturing, NOT first use.

thats 3 years, and thats when it runs at max efficiency, afterwards it starts to hold less and less charge, but it still will work for a few more years

MrSmith · 12th October 2006, 8:24 PM

It's not always 3 years, if you take care of it, and keep it charged well (Ie. Let it completely drain, charge to 100%, if you keep recharging at 30%, The battery will think the full capacity is 70%, and so on.)

Jezmad · 13th October 2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSmith

It's not always 3 years, if you take care of it, and keep it charged well (Ie. Let it completely drain, charge to 100%, if you keep recharging at 30%, The battery will think the full capacity is 70%, and so on.)

That's for NiCad batteries. Only NiCads have a memory effect. Full discharging Li-ion and NiMH batteries can damage them.

scruffy1 · 13th October 2006, 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerospyke

Either way, these batteries have a 2 year life .... and that is a 2 years from manufacturing, NOT first use.

i must tell my palm vx, as it hadn't noticed for its 4 years until the date button died from overwork

my camera appears to demonstrate this effect though

where did you hear this "fact" ?

yanman · 13th October 2006, 3:08 PM

lookey what i found

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm (How to prolong lithium-based batteries)

lol... battery university... interesting article tho

aerospyke · 14th October 2006, 2:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy1

i must tell my palm vx, as it hadn't noticed for its 4 years until the date button died from overwork

my camera appears to demonstrate this effect though

where did you hear this "fact" ?

i actually read it at the battery university... there was a post about the various different ions being tested to make up lithium ion batteries, legit research

9th October 2006, 10:09 PM	#1
aerospyke Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 3,180	Lithium batteries, WH do we have to charge them 12hours first time? Hey guys I have a strange question, why oh WHY do we have to charge new batteries for 12 hours before first use? I can't see a technological use for it, especially when the device, be it a PDA or mobile phone, thinks it is full anyway. anyone shed some light on my puzzlement? any links to places that explain it? __________________ DFI Lanparty UT nf4 SLI-DR Expert BIOS 0406 \| G4 on AMD 4400+@2.7Ghz (270x10) \| G.Skill HZ 2GB@1:1 \| MCW55 on 7800GTX 256 @ 500/1.39 Wife v1.2 settling in fine, no compatibility issues apparent ZOMG bought myself a house !

9th October 2006, 11:10 PM	#3
MrSmith Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: nor perth Posts: 2,391	You have to trickle charge them first up, so it recognizes the capacity of the battery, then every other time you can charge it normally. __________________ [X2 4200+, Asus 8600GT Silent, 1gb, modded Antec Plusview2] [Dell i6400/1.83Ghz C2D, 1gb ddr2, 256mb X1400] [Middlesbrough FC, Fremantle Dockers, Perth Glory] [Myspace, trades] \|\|Dr. Pepper Club Member #001\|\|

10th October 2006, 9:40 AM	#4
aerospyke Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 3,180	define trickle charge if it looks like its charging normally? do you actually DO anything different? if not what stops you from trickle charging it any other time? __________________ DFI Lanparty UT nf4 SLI-DR Expert BIOS 0406 \| G4 on AMD 4400+@2.7Ghz (270x10) \| G.Skill HZ 2GB@1:1 \| MCW55 on 7800GTX 256 @ 500/1.39 Wife v1.2 settling in fine, no compatibility issues apparent ZOMG bought myself a house !

12th October 2006, 3:54 PM	#8
aerospyke Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 3,180	Either way, these batteries have a 2 year life .... and that is a 2 years from manufacturing, NOT first use. __________________ DFI Lanparty UT nf4 SLI-DR Expert BIOS 0406 \| G4 on AMD 4400+@2.7Ghz (270x10) \| G.Skill HZ 2GB@1:1 \| MCW55 on 7800GTX 256 @ 500/1.39 Wife v1.2 settling in fine, no compatibility issues apparent ZOMG bought myself a house !

12th October 2006, 4:43 PM	#9
Jezmad Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: WA Posts: 1,278	You don't. Check Dan's site. He has lots of info on there about batteries. I don't long first charge my Li-on batteries and haven't had any crap out on me or have less usage time than the specs. Haven't had any explode either. __________________ Originally Posted by Agg: sabretooth, stop dicking around with the space-time continuum BF3 - Jumpinjez - Add me on Origin i5 2500K - Asrock Z68 Pro 3 - G.Skill 8GB kit - Corsair Force 3 120GB - Sapphire 6870 - 500GB Samsung - Antec Trupower 550 - Coolermaster Centurion 590 Last edited by Jezmad; 12th October 2006 at 7:23 PM.

9th October 2006, 10:24 PM	#2
josh81 Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bellbowrie, Brisbane Posts: 2,539	Yeah, if the charger is designed to cut of power transfer once the battery is full, then it can't possibly do any more once it's full.

10th October 2006, 10:42 AM	#5
mordy Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: melb Posts: 5,116	lithium batteries have complicated electronics which allows them to keep track of their capacity to high accuracy. You need to give the batteries' computer a reference point of 100% full, so giving it a 12 hour charge ensures that the battery knows exactly how much its 100% is. Technically though you can do a full discharge/recharge cycle at any time instead of the initial 12hr charge.

11th October 2006, 9:51 PM	#6
Opteron Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 2,940	i think its stupid, manufacturers should just do it for us

12th October 2006, 8:24 PM	#11
MrSmith Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: nor perth Posts: 2,391	It's not always 3 years, if you take care of it, and keep it charged well (Ie. Let it completely drain, charge to 100%, if you keep recharging at 30%, The battery will think the full capacity is 70%, and so on.) __________________ [X2 4200+, Asus 8600GT Silent, 1gb, modded Antec Plusview2] [Dell i6400/1.83Ghz C2D, 1gb ddr2, 256mb X1400] [Middlesbrough FC, Fremantle Dockers, Perth Glory] [Myspace, trades] \|\|Dr. Pepper Club Member #001\|\|

13th October 2006, 3:08 PM	#14
yanman Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobart Posts: 5,748	lookey what i found http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm (How to prolong lithium-based batteries) lol... battery university... interesting article tho