HOWTO: Create your own PCBs on the cheap! - Page 6

nux · 22nd March 2007, 5:16 PM

I've read the best thing to do is neutralise it with a base, such as baking soda. Add it in slowly until it stops reacting. Then I just pour it out in the garden.

And you should only make up enough etchant to use each time, it doesnt last very long. You can get a few uses out of it if you keep it sealed in an airtight container, but it takes longer to work.

Thraxeh · 25th March 2007, 6:29 PM

Will etchant eat through .5mm of aluminium ?

i want to make a cut out of something in aluminium, and i thought making a very thin track outline for the cutlout i want, and then etch it so it eats through the aluminium

GooSE · 25th March 2007, 11:29 PM

Etching isn't a substitute for cutting. It'll turn out horrible IMO.

khendar · 17th April 2007, 10:50 AM

I'm working on making a very basic board for a fan power port similar to this. I know everyone has bagged the etch pen method even for basic boards, but it seems to be the easiest and cheapest way. I realise I could do this without making an etched PCB but I've been meaning to try it and it seems a very easy project to start on.

Am I wasting my time thinking about an etched PCB for this application?

Hope no one minds me digging up this thread

GooSE · 17th April 2007, 11:07 AM

Never a waste of time, IMO.

It's always good to have a go. Plus if you want to create something more complex in the future you will already have the confidence and skills to see it through.

-KoMoD0- · 17th April 2007, 9:04 PM

I used a dalo pen when the toner transfer method didnt work (acid went straight through)

Worked ok but looked like shit, trace the layout on with a pencil and go over it 2-3 times with the pen. Keep a eye on it when its in the acid solution.

^lave · 18th April 2007, 1:47 AM

Does anyone here use thermal fax paper as I do for the toner transfer - been using it for years - last 50 meter roll I bought was around $3 (and 50m translates to more than 150 a4 sheets). I laser print to the thermally active side of the fax paper (the goes black side). The chemicals on the surface of the paper seem to allow it to separate from the toner quite easily. Of course after the laser print the paper is completely black.

Used this method for many years - like all thermal transfer methods the advantages are speed. From point of printing to actual circuit board is a very short time. For a quick an nasty prototype I find it quicker than track cutting on vero. It allows a few quick revisions and tests of the board designs (just another function of it concept to board speed).

Disadvantages of course if resolution - sub .5mm track prove to be dificult from a consistancy perspective - at which point I use photoresist. For low track counts I can get away with the toner still - even for quite detailed work (ie 8 pin and 16pin SMD chip at .025" pitch to .1" dip adapters etc).

Even my photoresist is on the cheap as I still have a few can of positive photoresist paint I purchased a few years ago. I use my high tech developer (1 and 1/2 teaspoons of caustic soda in 1 liter of water

) - I my final cleaner mix (5 teaspoons of caustic sode in 100ml water). The paint cost around $16 a can possibly 20 years ago when I purchased it (from memory had a best before type date which was well expired even when I purchased) - but it still works fine with reasonable contrast.

cheers

^lave

alvarez · 7th June 2007, 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rass

You can buy D.I.Y kits from dick smith electronics for about $20 from memory. It contains some of the acid, a couple of boards and an etching pen along with instructions.

Would these kits use similar acids to what is used in your guide?
I ask as I already have accses to a kit and only need to make on board so I wouldnt like to waste alot of materials on it.

From what I can tell its not a lot diferent from those kits just more acurate.
Good job btw an excellent guide and infinitely usefull.

GooSE · 8th June 2007, 1:13 AM

The DSE and Jaycar kits would be using either ammonium persulphate or ferric chloride. My guide is applicable for either of these - the only reason I used acid was because it's cheaper and the etching time is very low.

dohzer · 10th June 2007, 12:50 AM

The paper was also starting to burn... is that normal or am I ironing it for too long?

Does it matter if the paper hangs over the edge of the board? It seemed to bubble less when I didn't have overhang.

Do you iron with the board on an ironing board? I was thinking of trying it on a more stable surface, but didn't want to burn anything.

Hot? Cold? Does it matter?

Does the soap matter? Could my dish washing detergent be lifting the toner?

Are there separate inkjet printer photo papers and laser printer photo papers?

nux · 10th June 2007, 12:53 AM

You want inkjet photo paper.

I use cold water with no soap and it works fine. When I iron it, I put it on the hottest setting, and also make it steam a bit with the steam button. This seems to help it glide better and not get stuck.

dohzer · 10th June 2007, 2:11 AM

What surface do you normally use for ironing? An ironing board?
I'm not sure how much pressure is needed, but I feel like the board may is sinking too far into the ironing board. Would that be a problem?

dohzer · 10th June 2007, 3:00 AM

Just had another go with ironing.
On the first board, the paper was nice and flat, but then as the board cooled I noticed a few bubbles forming.
The second one was really flat/well stuck.
After a fair soaking, I tried to peel the top layer off, but the paper seems to be too thick or strong or something because it doesn't come apart easily.
Again, most of the toner stayed on, but large chunks pulled away.
The paper seems to bubble and lift when it goes in the water. I'm not sure if it's meant to do that. Then when I rub, I think the bubbled areas are pulling clean off the board, with most of the toner on the paper.

Ah well. I'll have another go tomorrow morning and also search for a cheap laser printer. Anyone got idea on a good, cheap printer for this purpose?

GooSE · 10th June 2007, 1:43 PM

It don't think it would matter whether you use hot or cold water. I guess hot would be better though?

As nuxie1 says, you want glossy (not matte) inkjet photo paper. I used the regular OfficeOne (i.e. cheapest

) paper.

As for ironing, I did mine on a wooden chopping board. I let the iron heat up to the hottest temperature and then simply sat it on the board/paper for about 3 minutes. After this I pushed down hard and worked the iron over the board/paper to make sure I hadn't missed any bits.

After this I let it soak in soap/water for like 10 minutes and then I simply started rubbing the paper off with my thumbs.

dohzer · 10th June 2007, 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GooSE

It don't think it would matter whether you use hot or cold water. I guess hot would be better though?

I did find another site saying to used hot water.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GooSE

I let the iron heat up to the hottest temperature and then simply sat it on the board/paper for about 3 minutes.

The only problem with doing that is that my iron has an auto-off function when the iron stops moving for too long. The on LED flashes and it turns off its heater.
To get around that I hold the iron tightly on the copper board and shake the ironing board.

I was thinking of getting one of these HP Laserjet 1020 Printers because they are only $120.
Hopefully I can do better with one of them and different paper.

17th April 2007, 10:50 AM	#79
khendar Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Adelaide Posts: 546	I'm working on making a very basic board for a fan power port similar to this. I know everyone has bagged the etch pen method even for basic boards, but it seems to be the easiest and cheapest way. I realise I could do this without making an etched PCB but I've been meaning to try it and it seems a very easy project to start on. Am I wasting my time thinking about an etched PCB for this application? Hope no one minds me digging up this thread __________________ Trusted Traders:chip,Freshwat3r,iCrunk,jimmy,jtsmorris,kurwa,OhFoR kMe,PhilDee,spikes,Spootage,WooKiE_MaN

18th April 2007, 1:47 AM	#82
^lave Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 174	Does anyone here use thermal fax paper as I do for the toner transfer - been using it for years - last 50 meter roll I bought was around $3 (and 50m translates to more than 150 a4 sheets). I laser print to the thermally active side of the fax paper (the goes black side). The chemicals on the surface of the paper seem to allow it to separate from the toner quite easily. Of course after the laser print the paper is completely black. Used this method for many years - like all thermal transfer methods the advantages are speed. From point of printing to actual circuit board is a very short time. For a quick an nasty prototype I find it quicker than track cutting on vero. It allows a few quick revisions and tests of the board designs (just another function of it concept to board speed). Disadvantages of course if resolution - sub .5mm track prove to be dificult from a consistancy perspective - at which point I use photoresist. For low track counts I can get away with the toner still - even for quite detailed work (ie 8 pin and 16pin SMD chip at .025" pitch to .1" dip adapters etc). Even my photoresist is on the cheap as I still have a few can of positive photoresist paint I purchased a few years ago. I use my high tech developer (1 and 1/2 teaspoons of caustic soda in 1 liter of water ) - I my final cleaner mix (5 teaspoons of caustic sode in 100ml water). The paint cost around $16 a can possibly 20 years ago when I purchased it (from memory had a best before type date which was well expired even when I purchased) - but it still works fine with reasonable contrast. cheers ^lave __________________ http://folding.extremeoverclocking.c...image.php?u=76

10th June 2007, 12:50 AM	#85
dohzer Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 5,324	The paper was also starting to burn... is that normal or am I ironing it for too long? Does it matter if the paper hangs over the edge of the board? It seemed to bubble less when I didn't have overhang. Do you iron with the board on an ironing board? I was thinking of trying it on a more stable surface, but didn't want to burn anything. Hot? Cold? Does it matter? Does the soap matter? Could my dish washing detergent be lifting the toner? Are there separate inkjet printer photo papers and laser printer photo papers? Last edited by Ma Baker; 27th June 2007 at 4:26 AM. Reason: Added text that Goth accidentally removed.

22nd March 2007, 5:16 PM	#76
nux Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 16,790	I've read the best thing to do is neutralise it with a base, such as baking soda. Add it in slowly until it stops reacting. Then I just pour it out in the garden. And you should only make up enough etchant to use each time, it doesnt last very long. You can get a few uses out of it if you keep it sealed in an airtight container, but it takes longer to work.

25th March 2007, 6:29 PM	#77
Thraxeh Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sydney Australia NSW Posts: 4,134	Will etchant eat through .5mm of aluminium ? i want to make a cut out of something in aluminium, and i thought making a very thin track outline for the cutlout i want, and then etch it so it eats through the aluminium

25th March 2007, 11:29 PM	#78
GooSE Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,483	Etching isn't a substitute for cutting. It'll turn out horrible IMO.

17th April 2007, 11:07 AM	#80
GooSE Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,483	Never a waste of time, IMO. It's always good to have a go. Plus if you want to create something more complex in the future you will already have the confidence and skills to see it through.

17th April 2007, 9:04 PM	#81
-KoMoD0- Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Western Sydney Posts: 7,826	I used a dalo pen when the toner transfer method didnt work (acid went straight through) Worked ok but looked like shit, trace the layout on with a pencil and go over it 2-3 times with the pen. Keep a eye on it when its in the acid solution.

8th June 2007, 1:13 AM	#84
GooSE Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,483	The DSE and Jaycar kits would be using either ammonium persulphate or ferric chloride. My guide is applicable for either of these - the only reason I used acid was because it's cheaper and the etching time is very low.

10th June 2007, 12:53 AM	#86
nux Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 16,790	You want inkjet photo paper. I use cold water with no soap and it works fine. When I iron it, I put it on the hottest setting, and also make it steam a bit with the steam button. This seems to help it glide better and not get stuck.

10th June 2007, 2:11 AM	#87
dohzer Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 5,324	What surface do you normally use for ironing? An ironing board? I'm not sure how much pressure is needed, but I feel like the board may is sinking too far into the ironing board. Would that be a problem?

10th June 2007, 3:00 AM	#88
dohzer Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 5,324	Just had another go with ironing. On the first board, the paper was nice and flat, but then as the board cooled I noticed a few bubbles forming. The second one was really flat/well stuck. After a fair soaking, I tried to peel the top layer off, but the paper seems to be too thick or strong or something because it doesn't come apart easily. Again, most of the toner stayed on, but large chunks pulled away. The paper seems to bubble and lift when it goes in the water. I'm not sure if it's meant to do that. Then when I rub, I think the bubbled areas are pulling clean off the board, with most of the toner on the paper. Ah well. I'll have another go tomorrow morning and also search for a cheap laser printer. Anyone got idea on a good, cheap printer for this purpose?

10th June 2007, 1:43 PM	#89
GooSE Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,483	It don't think it would matter whether you use hot or cold water. I guess hot would be better though? As nuxie1 says, you want glossy (not matte) inkjet photo paper. I used the regular OfficeOne (i.e. cheapest ) paper. As for ironing, I did mine on a wooden chopping board. I let the iron heat up to the hottest temperature and then simply sat it on the board/paper for about 3 minutes. After this I pushed down hard and worked the iron over the board/paper to make sure I hadn't missed any bits. After this I let it soak in soap/water for like 10 minutes and then I simply started rubbing the paper off with my thumbs.